Tri-Pacers

etsisk

etsisk

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The thread on the red board revived an interest in Tri-Pacers, and I'm looking for input from y'all -

1. It'll be a first airplane for a new pilot.

2. It'll likely usually be just me, or me and one other person. Maybe a parent and a kid, if we're talking rides, but not for a while (I would want to gather up some experience and hours first, I'm a cautious guy with other folks' well-being).

3. I want to go places. Lots of places. I don't mind taking time to get there - I have more time than gas money, if ya know what I mean.
rolleyes.gif


I'd love to hear the good (load?, range?), the bad (glide ratio?), the ugly (well...), the fun, the painful . . . what worked, what didn't work, all the above!
biggrin.gif


Thanks!
 
It has been a long time since I have flown one (over 40 Years)

What I do remmeber is that the glide ratio is rather brick like(great for short field airports and obsticles. The visability out side is not great and to do a recover is very expensive. The entrance into them is interesting. The front seaters have to climb in on the right side and the rear seaters climb in on the left side.
They are quite a bit cheaper than a 172.

I did enjoy flying the Tri-Pacer or the Pacer wth a nose gear. I took my first duel IFR flight in one. They do not have the room of the Cessna and the visability leaves a lot to be desired.

Good luck an let us know what you get

John
 
Tom,

I have a Tripacer 160 hp, vortex generators, and Ferguson droop tips. I love it. It is a tough plane. Flat land flying, it will fly with anything you can close the doors on. I flew to Oshkosh once with 3 people, each between 20-50 pounds over FAA standard weight and camping gear for a week. It performed well on my trip to Alaska and did real well on my trip out west this year. At about 100 pounds under gross my take off roll was less than 2500 ft at Leadville CO (density altitude was 11,200ft at that time)
People say they glide like a rock but the glide ratio is 9:1, I think other light planes are right in that 9-10:1 range. Part of the problem is that when you pull the throttle back you do need to drop the nose to maintain airspeed. If you hold the nose up, it slows down fast and then doesn't glide well. It does that falling leaf stall really well.
With a light load a 1500 ft grass strip felt long and I have friends that fly out of 1200 ft strips without problems.
I got mine the day after I got my license. The fellow who was selling it was a corporate pilot in a Citation. He said he could not figure out how to land the Tripacer. A friend of mine with a lot of Tripacer time showed me. It is not that hard to get a good landing in one. You just shouldn't flare as high as people tend to with a Cessna.
Don't get a metallized one, that ruins them. They are heavy and the tin "oil cans" -it flexs alot and makes noises. Fabric is tough, you don't need no stinkin' tin.
I have vortex generators on mine. In all truth I have only really needed them probably twice. Once was this summer at Medicine Bow WY. A herd of Antelope jumped out in front of me just as I got the mains solidly on the ground. I jammed the throttle in and literally yanked the plane into the air. After the last antelope butt passed about a foot below my tire I glanced at my panel, airspeed registered 40 mph. The plane was flying solid. I'm sure I was on the generators then. If you are taking off and landing at normal speeds you are not using the generators. They do get you alot of attention at Oshkosh. But if you like to wash and wax you plane, they are knuckle busters.
I have the 160 hp engine. The 135 hp is probably a little anemic if you want to do short field(less than 1800 ft with 2 people) and at elevations. The 150 is pretty good but 10 more horsepower does make a difference in take off roll and climb. They all cruise about the same speed. I flight plan for 100 knots.
One shortfall for me is the range-4 hours. On a cross country I plan my stops for about 3 hrs distance. I can't stay in the air any longer myself so the range isn't a problem there. But if you are flying were fuel stops are sparse, it limits sight seeing side trips. I fixed that by getting some Dakota Cub tanks that give me an extra hour of time. It was nice for tooling around in the Idaho backcountry--lots of airstrips, not many places to get fuel.

Barb(Tripacer 8138D)
 
Barb gave great feedback.

Personally, I love the flying milk stool. I'd rather have one than a C172 but don't think I've ever had a really good landing in one. As with all fabric covered airplanes, be careful. It's very, very, very expensive to re-cover one (right Diana?). You could do a lot worse than a good tri-Pacer.
 
I am thinking real hard about the Tri-Pacer myself. Personally, I wouldn't mind to recover my own tube and fabric airplane. How much would it cost for the material to recover one?
 
I had mine recovered last winter. We found some other things that needed repairs when the fabric was stripped off. I think the total materials including fabric, dope, silver, paint, a couple of wood bows, and even the sand blasting sand came to around $3-4,000. We replaced some cables, welded some parts, changed fuel lines and did a bunch of little stuff too.

Barb
 
Great feedback, y'all!

Barb, thanks for all the input - really, that sounds pretty much just what I would want from a plane! (well, maybe a wee bit faster . . . :rolleyes: ). If only the windows rolled down . . . I do like the wide-openness of the Cub, but not flying from the back seat. Heck, I don't know if my back would let me turn the cabin heat on or off, etc.! (and the re-cover costs sound pretty much in line with what I've heard about most every other fabric plane!)

The tri-pacer does sound pretty great. I just saw one today - fellow here in Chapel Hill has one that he just got completely redone - new pretty much everything. Put a 160 in it, new fabric, paint (duh) and all. It is sooo pretty! Dunno what folks mean when they talk about its looks! :D

I appreciate the comments and welcome any more!
 
Thanks Barb. That 3-4,000 was just material but not labor, correct?
 
Dustin said:
That 3-4,000 was just material but not labor, correct?
Click to expand...

Correct. My total bill was about 12500. $2500 was for the Dakota Cub gas tanks. There was 3 months of labor costs at $15.00/hr(my mechanic does great work but doesn't realize that your supposed to increase your rates over 40 years of doing this and I'm not telling him!) The rest is materials, probably closer to the 3000 than the 4000 but I like to over estimate costs. The paint was $250/gallon, one gallon of each color.

Barb
 
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One Short said:
Correct. My total bill was about 12500. $2500 was for the Dakota Cub gas tanks. There was 3 months of labor costs at $15.00/hr(my mechanic does great work but doesn't realize that your supposed to increase your rates over 40 years of doing this and I'm not telling him!) The rest is materials, probably closer to the 3000 than the 4000 but I like to over estimate costs. The paint was $250/gallon, one gallon of each color.

Barb
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That makes much more sense to me. At a more standard rate of $45/hour that puts covering at just over $20,000 in labor alone. Quotes on covering the Pitts were all around $30,000. You're really fortunate to find someone who does good work and works for $15 / hour.
 
Met up with one out in N Central WA once on a hot summer evening. She had flown her parents over the mountains from Idaho for the sunset in her TriPacer, "Stubby". Very utilitarian aircraft it seems.

etsisk said:
The thread on the red board revived an interest in Tri-Pacers, and I'm looking for input from y'all -

1. It'll be a first airplane for a new pilot.

2. It'll likely usually be just me, or me and one other person. Maybe a parent and a kid, if we're talking rides, but not for a while (I would want to gather up some experience and hours first, I'm a cautious guy with other folks' well-being).

3. I want to go places. Lots of places. I don't mind taking time to get there - I have more time than gas money, if ya know what I mean.
rolleyes.gif


I'd love to hear the good (load?, range?), the bad (glide ratio?), the ugly (well...), the fun, the painful . . . what worked, what didn't work, all the above!
biggrin.gif


Thanks!
Click to expand...
 
Wow, I really need to get into the recovering process. I would be willing to do it for $15-20 per hour.
 
Dustin said:
Wow, I really need to get into the recovering process. I would be willing to do it for $15-20 per hour.
Click to expand...
Hey, you and me both! Seems like a good gig for those retirement years!!
 
etsisk said:
Hey, you and me both! Seems like a good gig for those retirement years!!
Click to expand...

I would not mind doing it now on my days off. I work weekends and don't have much to do through the week.

I need a life of some kind, I guess.
 
etsisk said:
The thread on the red board revived an interest in Tri-Pacers, and I'm looking for input from y'all -

1. It'll be a first airplane for a new pilot.

2. It'll likely usually be just me, or me and one other person. Maybe a parent and a kid, if we're talking rides, but not for a while (I would want to gather up some experience and hours first, I'm a cautious guy with other folks' well-being).

3. I want to go places. Lots of places. I don't mind taking time to get there - I have more time than gas money, if ya know what I mean.
rolleyes.gif


I'd love to hear the good (load?, range?), the bad (glide ratio?), the ugly (well...), the fun, the painful . . . what worked, what didn't work, all the above!
biggrin.gif


Thanks!
Click to expand...

I have owned mine for over 6 years and concur with Barb's statements. It is a great low cost aircraft to own and operate and will go where you want. It always get's lot's of attention where it goes. Replacement of fabric is not done very often due to the great materials out on the market today. Where Barb just did it her plane it will not have it to be done for the next 20 to 30 years again with just basic care. Go to the Short Wing Piper Club site for more info about this great plane. You can find a lot of this type for between 20 and 30 k that are in great shape. Under 20 K you have to look close at them. Good luck.
 
It is to bad this is such an old thread. I just recovered my tripacer. It actually cost over 12k$ for all the materials alone. If Barb only used 1 gallon for each color, the job was not done according to the stc. I used 9 gallons each of poly spray and 10 poly tone paint and at least 7 gallons of poly brush. To have one done and done right, it will cost in the 22k$ but when you get done, you have one of the finest performing airplanes ever built. The 140 hp 0290D2 is the highest hp per pound of any other lycoming engine and will stay within 2-4 mph the 160 except at altitude. The 140 hp model is about 120 pounds lighter than the 160, hence the performance egualls out. The 160 burns 9.5-10 gph and the 140 burns 7.5-8gph. Mine weighed in at 1031 lbs and the 160s go around 1150. I dont think there is an auto fuel stc for the 160 either.
It is just hard to beat for an all around airplane, from student to cross country as well as back woods and seats 4 if you are short legged for the back seat. Front seat is very comfortable except for us 280 lb fat guys sliding across to the pilot side. Once in, it is a great plane and easy to fly. Contrary to the previous statements about bad landing characteristics, it is very easy to grease em and get in shorter, than about any other plane in its price bracket. The original manufactures stats are no where near what these planes actually do. They far exceed what they originaly said they would do. They are fun, quick and sporty to fly, 122-126mph and 48 mph stall.
You can buy a dog for $22-25K, and then do $20K work on it. Or, you can spend it up front and buy a cherry for $35K-$40k and go fly for the cost of gas and oil for the next 25-30 years except for engine OH. Do an owner assist annual for the $400. range. It aint going to get any cheeper than that!
And, you are right, everyone comes to take a look at it! And best of all, you can buy new parts for the old piper short wings from Univair. You can modify a tripacer to a tailwheel if you so desire. I think the stc is in the $4,000. range if you should feel the need for the 3rd wheel to follow rather than to lead.
Stay away from the OLD types fabric and find one with the new process covering and it will last 25-30 years.
 
For all you folks who think the refabric job is expensive, take the stewart brothers recover class and do it your self, 5-6 k total under the supervision of an A&P.
 
Thomas said:
It is to bad this is such an old thread. I just recovered my tripacer. It actually cost over 12k$ for all the materials alone. If Barb only used 1 gallon for each color, the job was not done according to the stc. I used 9 gallons each of poly spray and 10 poly tone paint and at least 7 gallons of poly brush. To have one done and done right, it will cost in the 22k$ but when you get done, you have one of the finest performing airplanes ever built.

snip


Stay away from the OLD types fabric and find one with the new process covering and it will last 25-30 years.
Click to expand...

That's because you used that stupid poly system. when you use the Stewart System you do not use any thinners or hardeners and it ships without hazmat charges, and does not require expensive equipment to protect you from the chemicals.

AND IT IS EASIER.

http://www.stewartsystems.aero/
 
NC19143 said:
For all you folks who think the refabric job is expensive, take the stewart brothers recover class and do it your self, 5-6 k total under the supervision of an A&P.
Click to expand...
I did not know it was that cheep, but your advice is definately good advice. Their wing tips are worthy of researching as well. Nice people to talk to and very knowledgable about the old short wing pipers. I am sure that price bracket dont include any tube prep or repair. It is best to powder coat the tubular structure prior to any fabric.
 
etsisk said:
If only the windows rolled down . . . I do like the wide-openness of the Cub, but not flying from the back seat.
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The new Legend Cub can be solo'd from the front seat, as it has wing tanks, not a header tank:

http://www.legend.aero/manufacturing.asp

The American Legend Cub wing design also incorporates one of the best features of our Cub design. Unlike similar vintage airplanes, the Legend Cub can be flown solo from either the front or back seat. Two 12-gallon fuel tanks are built into each wing. We did this to alleviate the center-of-gravity and safety issues common with storing fuel on the aircraft bulkhead.
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boy howdy, I wish I could afford a Legend or Cub Crafters - those planes are seriously nice!
 
NC19143 said:
That's because you used that stupid poly system. AND IT IS EASIER.

http://www.stewartsystems.aero/
Click to expand...
The Stewart system was not yet approved when I started my recover project. It does sound like it will be a good product, but yet to be proven. It has only been approved for less than a year now.
As for the Poly Fiber,[stitts], it has been around for years and has been well proven to last the 25-30 years. If you think poly fiber is stupid, I suggest you stick with the metal airplanes and leave the fabric ones to the people that know what they are talking about.
 
Thomas said:
The Stewart system was not yet approved when I started my recover project. It does sound like it will be a good product, but yet to be proven. It has only been approved for less than a year now.
As for the Poly Fiber,[stitts], it has been around for years and has been well proven to last the 25-30 years. If you think poly fiber is stupid, I suggest you stick with the metal airplanes and leave the fabric ones to the people that know what they are talking about.
Click to expand...

LOL! Tom, stick to metal airplanes! :rofl:
 
Thomas said:
The Stewart system was not yet approved when I started my recover project. It does sound like it will be a good product, but yet to be proven. It has only been approved for less than a year now.
As for the Poly Fiber,[stitts], it has been around for years and has been well proven to last the 25-30 years. If you think poly fiber is stupid, I suggest you stick with the metal airplanes and leave the fabric ones to the people that know what they are talking about.
Click to expand...

Yeah I don't know squat about fabric,,

http://www.whidbey.com/fairchild-nc19143/

OBTW Stewarts have been doing this system for a long time there are aicraft with their system on for well over 20 years as the AFS system. Just because the Stewarts bought the product line and gained a STC for it does not make it a new system.
 
Hey, TD, I saw a metallized Tri-Pacer yesterday [Saturday]. Talk about ugly...

:rofl:

NC19143 said:
Yeah I don't know squat about fabric,,

http://www.whidbey.com/fairchild-nc19143/

OBTW Stewarts have been doing this system for a long time there are aicraft with their system on for well over 20 years as the AFS system. Just because the Stewarts bought the product line and gained a STC for it does not make it a new system.
Click to expand...
 
Steve said:
Hey, TD, I saw a metallized Tri-Pacer yesterday [Saturday]. Talk about ugly...

:rofl:
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They are ugly dressed in fabric, but they are a milk stool to fly. that huge nose wheel faring subtracts 15 MPH off the Pacer.
 
NC19143 said:
They are ugly dressed in fabric, but they are a milk stool to fly. that huge nose wheel faring subtracts 15 MPH off the Pacer.
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Hey, they aren't ugly, homely maybe, but not ugly!:no:
Yes, the nosewheel slows it down, but for us nosewheel weenies it is a good back country plane.:yes: (I'm not saying it will go every where a tricked-out SuperCub can go but it can go to alot more places than than most spam cans.:))

Barb
Oh, Thomas, TD knows airplanes and fabric better than most and the guy who recovered mine got his name on the short wing hall of fame for his 40 years of experience in putting shortwings back in the air. His planes are flying in just about every state and as far away as New Zealand.
 
One Short said:
Hey, they aren't ugly, homely maybe, but not ugly!:no:
Yes, the nosewheel slows it down, but for us nosewheel weenies it is a good back country plane.:yes: (I'm not saying it will go every where a tricked-out SuperCub can go but it can go to alot more places than than most spam cans.:))

Barb
Oh, Thomas, TD knows airplanes and fabric better than most and the guy who recovered mine got his name on the short wing hall of fame for his 40 years of experience in putting shortwings back in the air. His planes are flying in just about every state and as far away as New Zealand.
Click to expand...

WE went to Jonhson's creek camping a couple years a go, the most camp gear I ever saw come out of an aircraft came out of a tripe.

When the weekend was over they piled it all back in the tripe and got off shorter than the 180/185 guys.

We make fun of them but we are jealous of what they can carry.
 
One Short said:
Hey, they aren't ugly, homely maybe, but not ugly!:no:
Yes, the nosewheel slows it down, but for us nosewheel weenies it is a good back country plane.:yes: (I'm not saying it will go every where a tricked-out SuperCub can go but it can go to alot more places than than most spam cans.:))

Barb
Oh, Thomas, TD knows airplanes and fabric better than most and the guy who recovered mine got his name on the short wing hall of fame for his 40 years of experience in putting shortwings back in the air. His planes are flying in just about every state and as far away as New Zealand.
Click to expand...

It would be interesting to know what type of paint that was put on it that only required 1 gallon per color. I have never even heard of a system like that. I'll try and look up "TD" on the shortwing club and see if I can find out more.
There are quite a few of the professional old timers that participate in the shortwing/forums and there is some very beautifull airplanes out there right now and more being done by the owners. Very interesting airplanes.
 
NC19143 said:
WE went to Jonhson's creek camping a couple years a go, the most camp gear I ever saw come out of an aircraft came out of a tripe.

When the weekend was over they piled it all back in the tripe and got off shorter than the 180/185 guys.

We make fun of them but we are jealous of what they can carry.
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The back seat just slides right out and that gives you about 40 inches of space back there to haul your weekend stuff. Easy acces from the back door. I have even heard of a guy takes out the front seats when he sets up camp and has a portable platform that folds into a bed for 2, I bet that comfy! The front seats just slip out as well
 
NC19143 said:
WE went to Jonhson's creek camping a couple years a go, the most camp gear I ever saw come out of an aircraft came out of a tripe.

When the weekend was over they piled it all back in the tripe and got off shorter than the 180/185 guys.

We make fun of them but we are jealous of what they can carry.
Click to expand...

I resemble that!
 
gprellwitz said:
TD is NC1914's initials. His first name is, coincidentally, Tom! :)
Click to expand...

And the NC19143 is the N number of his aircraft. And he is shameless when it comes to sharing his hobby.
 

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NC19143 said:
Yeah I don't know squat about fabric,,

http://www.whidbey.com/fairchild-nc19143/

OBTW Stewarts have been doing this system for a long time there are aicraft with their system on for well over 20 years as the AFS system. Just because the Stewarts bought the product line and gained a STC for it does not make it a new system.
Click to expand...
Now, that is going to be one nice Fairchild! I have never been around one and really dont know much about them, but it sure looks like it would be a lot of fun.:yes:
 
There is a very nice tripacer on ebay right now. Presently the bid is only at $15,300.
 
Thomas said:
It would be interesting to know what type of paint that was put on it that only required 1 gallon per color. I have never even heard of a system like that. There are quite a few of the professional old timers that participate in the shortwing/forums and there is some very beautifull airplanes out there right now and more being done by the owners. Very interesting airplanes.
Click to expand...

The "paint" is just the last layer. We started with a couple of layers of dope, then silver, then the finish paint. We used PPG Concept. It is thinned to spray on, and we used one gallon of white and about half a gallon of accent color. My plane is not a show plane. It is a flying plane. It looks good from 30 ft away but has already accumulated a few stone bruises and stuff from use. My mechanic is Clyde Grant who is pretty well known amongst the older short wing piper club members.

Barb
 
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