Traveling Faith Healers' Jet goes down in Wichita 10am today.

N747JB said:
500/550 series Citations can be flown single pilot with a single pilot waiver, pretty standard stuff. Lots of I's and II's are flown by one pilot, it does require either a commercial or ATP ticket, a second class medical and a check ride, but it's pretty common. :D
I flew a 551 so my type rating is CE500, not single pilot.;)
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Even if his rating wasn't single pilot, there is no requirement for the SIC to hold a type rating as long as the airplane is flown in the US.
 
weilke said:
Why should he pay income tax ? Faith healing is his 'ministry', all income and expenses are 'mission related' and not part of the income tax system. Silly wabbit.
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Actually, clergy pay more taxes than most people because they are always considered self-employed for FICA purposes.

-Rich
 
bartmc said:
Did you just condescendingly call me a "fox news watcher" then turn around and start a thread about a Fox News article?



You MSNBCers can't go a day without being hypocritical.
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Didn't msnbc get caught editing several news stories this year ???


Roger
RT screen designs
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RJM62 said:
Actually, clergy pay more taxes than most people because they are always considered self-employed for FICA purposes.

-Rich
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Only on the measly salary they pay themself out of their church. All the perks like the jets, travel and palacial parsonages are mission expenses directly paid by the church.

This is not about your average priest of a brick+mortar church with a vestry that runs the finances. This is about the weasels who run church businesses centered around a single central figure and who use the church to finance a lavish lifestyle for themselve and a couple of inner-ring cronies.
 
weilke said:
This is not about your average priest of a brick+mortar church with a vestry that runs the finances. This is about the weasels who run church businesses centered around a single central figure and who use the church to finance a lavish lifestyle for themselve and a couple of inner-ring cronies.
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No offense intended, but doesn't that almost perfectly describe the catholic church?

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/1...rom-diocese-after-31m-euro/?intcmp=latestnews

Or the mormon?

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2013/10/big_mormon_temple_in_gilbert_public.php

Or plenty of other less than poverty stricken sects?

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_0QJKRqF2L...mosque-in-kuala-terengganu-malaysia-night.jpg

Man is venal, religious man is just one more venality in a long list. I might have a passing interest in the religious ceremony if the greed and venality weren't so public. But they are - so I don't.
 
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N801BH said:
:eek:...

Apparantly GOD was NOT the co- pilot in this crash.... I wonder how long this duo has been flying a two pilot plane with just ONE qualified crew...:dunno::(

My bet is .. YEARS.....:mad2::mad:
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It's a part 91 operation, only the PIC needs to be type rated, SIC for this OP can be PPMEL-IR.
 
It depends. If the PIC has a single pilot type, then the SIC is not a required crew member.
 
Inverted said:
It depends. If the PIC has a single pilot type, then the SIC is not a required crew member.
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Only if the plane is operated within SP limits. IIRC, on the CitationII SP if you wanted to operate above a certain weight, you needed an SIC.
 
Henning said:
It's a part 91 operation, only the PIC needs to be type rated, SIC for this OP can be PPMEL-IR.
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Not totally true. If it is part 91 and the aircraft is single-pilot authorized (Part 23), and the pilot has a single pilot type rating, a SIC isn't required. You could have your mother-in-law (or your dog) sit in the right seat (meaning the person in the right seat is always a passenger and the time cannot be logged as SIC). Obviously, Part 135 and any insurance requirements placed on the owner/operator (such as always having an SIC rated pilot in the right seat in exchange for a reduction in insurance rates) are dealt with differently.
 
Lucky said:
Not totally true. If it is part 91 and the aircraft is single-pilot authorized (Part 23), and the pilot has a single pilot type rating, a SIC isn't required. You could have your mother-in-law (or your dog) sit in the right seat (meaning the person in the right seat is always a passenger and the time cannot be logged as SIC). Obviously, Part 135 and any insurance requirements placed on the owner/operator (such as always having an SIC rated pilot in the right seat in exchange for a reduction in insurance rates) are dealt with differently.
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But then SIC isn't required and the whole point of operating illegally is still invalid. Why can't people just accept this was an Act of God?:dunno::rofl:
 
Looks like this thread got a little off topic, but at least interesting...
I've spent the majority of my career flying Citations of all variety and this crash is pretty concerning to say the least. The weather that day was not conducive to an in-flight breakup to anything that has wings especially a jet airplane. Having a direction change in the winds aloft of 25-25kts is nothing out of the ordinary and definitely not a contributing factor to this accident. Somebody mentioned icing, seriously doubt it... After looking at the data on flightaware it is pretty odd that the data ends abruptly at 11:16am as they were climbing thru 15,200. If they were out of control or in a high speed dive there would still be a few more data hits on the airplane before it either broke apart or hit the ground. The data shows nothing of the airplane being out of control or having issues. Looks like a nice climb all the way up. Ground speeds look consistent with the climb profile. Increase in GS when they turned south catching some of the winds aloft out of the N/NE but still a very normal profile. Everything looks fine and then data ends.... Witnesses heard 2 explosions. Maybe an in-flight explosion? Maybe someone had it out for this guy? Maybe when the wing they found a mile away broke? Who knows, but something is very strange with this accident. This kind of thing doesn't happen to Citations and would be the first in-flight structural failure that I have ever heard of on any Citation airplane. Curious to see what the NTSB comes up with..
 
Lucky said:
Not totally true. If it is part 91 and the aircraft is single-pilot authorized (Part 23), and the pilot has a single pilot type rating, a SIC isn't required. You could have your mother-in-law (or your dog) sit in the right seat (meaning the person in the right seat is always a passenger and the time cannot be logged as SIC). Obviously, Part 135 and any insurance requirements placed on the owner/operator (such as always having an SIC rated pilot in the right seat in exchange for a reduction in insurance rates) are dealt with differently.
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So if I get all the appropriate ratings my dog Tucker can log in time? :D
 
hkyplr18 said:
Looks like this thread got a little off topic, but at least interesting...
I've spent the majority of my career flying Citations of all variety and this crash is pretty concerning to say the least. The weather that day was not conducive to an in-flight breakup to anything that has wings especially a jet airplane. Having a direction change in the winds aloft of 25-25kts is nothing out of the ordinary and definitely not a contributing factor to this accident. Somebody mentioned icing, seriously doubt it... After looking at the data on flightaware it is pretty odd that the data ends abruptly at 11:16am as they were climbing thru 15,200. If they were out of control or in a high speed dive there would still be a few more data hits on the airplane before it either broke apart or hit the ground. The data shows nothing of the airplane being out of control or having issues. Looks like a nice climb all the way up. Ground speeds look consistent with the climb profile. Increase in GS when they turned south catching some of the winds aloft out of the N/NE but still a very normal profile. Everything looks fine and then data ends.... Witnesses heard 2 explosions. Maybe an in-flight explosion? Maybe someone had it out for this guy? Maybe when the wing they found a mile away broke? Who knows, but something is very strange with this accident. This kind of thing doesn't happen to Citations and would be the first in-flight structural failure that I have ever heard of on any Citation airplane. Curious to see what the NTSB comes up with..
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So this could end up being something "big" in terms of something structurally wrong with said aircraft or perhaps even foul play? Interesting indeed.
 
hkyplr18 said:
After looking at the data on flightaware it is pretty odd that the data ends abruptly at 11:16am as they were climbing thru 15,200.
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FWIW, Flight Aware is by no means definitive radar data. There are a lot of anomalies in the Dara that FA often shows. What you see on Flight Aware may or may not be significant.

Obviously something bad/traumatic happened to the aircraft.
 
Fearless Tower said:
FWIW, Flight Aware is by no means definitive radar data. There are a lot of anomalies in the Dara that FA often shows. What you see on Flight Aware may or may not be significant.

Obviously something bad/traumatic happened to the aircraft.
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What is significant is that FA quit receiving data abruptly and the graph never showed anything out of the ordinary from takeoff until the last data point was recorded. I have used FA for years and it is very accurate most of the time, especially the track log and graph. When I look at FA after one of my flights I would say it's normally 98% accurate. I think their info comes straight from what the feds are recording and I imagine the same source an NTSB investigator will be looking at as well.
 
This guy was a real cheapskate! The high rollin preachers like kenneth copeland and Joel osteen wouldn't be caught dead in an old crate like this Cessna much less flying it their" own self. "They hire qualified pilots and dress them correctly in uniforms. They fly 10-15 million dollar stuff , not some ole worn out "Cessma"! Osteen probably spends more at his hairdresser than this airplane cost. He always appears, perfectly splendidly dressed, with his greasy curly hair just so. His wife not long ago, upset with the service she received from a stewardess on a major airline, smacked the stewardess around and gave her a good tongue lashing. Joel's home is in the 15000 sq. ft. Range, worth millions. You know what p.t. Barnum said don't you?
 
Jimmy cooper said:
This guy was a real cheapskate! The high rollin preachers like kenneth copeland and Joel osteen wouldn't be caught dead in an old crate like this Cessna much less flying it their" own self. "They hire qualified pilots and dress them correctly in uniforms. They fly 10-15 million dollar stuff , not some ole worn out "Cessma"! Osteen probably spends more at his hairdresser than this airplane cost. He always appears, perfectly splendidly dressed, with his greasy curly hair just so. His wife not long ago, upset with the service she received from a stewardess on a major airline, smacked the stewardess around and gave her a good tongue lashing. Joel's home is in the 15000 sq. ft. Range, worth millions. You know what p.t. Barnum said don't you?
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Have you seen the Kenneth Copeland fleet? He is a pilot and flys his warbirds and Citation X in support of his ministry. Apparently the people of Maui, Aspen, and Fiji need a lot of churchin' up since he visits them a lot.
 
hkyplr18 said:
What is significant is that FA quit receiving data abruptly and the graph never showed anything out of the ordinary from takeoff until the last data point was recorded. I have used FA for years and it is very accurate most of the time, especially the track log and graph. When I look at FA after one of my flights I would say it's normally 98% accurate.
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In my experience, FA:
- stitches 3-4 flights together turning them into some really bizarre looking squiggle
- drops data
- misses hand-offs between different radar facilities and shows the plane hopping back and forth by several miles

It is far from precise.

I think their info comes straight from what the feds are recording and I imagine the same source an NTSB investigator will be looking at as well.
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Not at all.

They receive the actual data from the radar facilities, not the scrubbed, modified and interpolated stuff FA displays.
 
hkyplr18 said:
What is significant is that FA quit receiving data abruptly and the graph never showed anything out of the ordinary from takeoff until the last data point was recorded.
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Not necessarily. I have done many IFR flights where the FA radar track will stop abruptly at the beginning of the descent and we'll before I started an approach.
 
weilke said:
In my experience, FA:
- stitches 3-4 flights together turning them into some really bizarre looking squiggle
- drops data
- misses hand-offs between different radar facilities and shows the plane hopping back and forth by several miles

It is far from precise.



Not at all.

They receive the actual data from the radar facilities, not the scrubbed, modified and interpolated stuff FA displays.
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Fearless Tower said:
Not necessarily. I have done many IFR flights where the FA radar track will stop abruptly at the beginning of the descent and we'll before I started an approach.
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Just looked back at the last 10 flights I've done recently on FA. Some routes over 1000nm. Multiple ATC facilities and lot's of different airports. Found 2 possible errors out of 10 flights. Not bad for a free service! No matter what someones experience is with FA it definitely shows a strange loss of data on this crash. I guess it could be wrong, but I doubt it.
 
hkyplr18 said:
Just looked back at the last 10 flights I've done recently on FA. Some routes over 1000nm. Multiple ATC facilities and lot's of different airports. Found 2 possible errors out of 10 flights. Not bad for a free service! No matter what someones experience is with FA it definitely shows a strange loss of data on this crash. I guess it could be wrong, but I doubt it.
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I get lost off it all the time especially hen I get down on the water or treetops. In this case though, I'd find it easy to believe that was the point the plane was swatted down or blown up by someone who had given a lot of money just to have their loved one die after being 'healed'.
 
hkyplr18 said:
Just looked back at the last 10 flights I've done recently on FA. Some routes over 1000nm. Multiple ATC facilities and lot's of different airports. Found 2 possible errors out of 10 flights. Not bad for a free service! No matter what someones experience is with FA it definitely shows a strange loss of data on this crash. I guess it could be wrong, but I doubt it.
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I made it from Madagascar to Savannah Georgia in under an hour, in my Bonanza.
 
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