Trasition Training Programs

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PilotBob

Filing Flight Plan
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Aug 11, 2008
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PilotBob
Hi,

I'm looking around at some various options for transition training in the following aircraft:

- Cessna/Columbia 350/400
- Cirrus SR22 (turbo)
- Piper Malibu Mirage

I've looked around some, and it seems that Flight Safety and SimCom both have some Mirage training, but I'm having a bit more trouble finding something beyond various CFIs who claim to be good with the SR22 and Columbia. In all cases, what I'm looking for is some more formal training, including class instruction that will satisfy insurance requirements. I have been given the request to look into this training as I would be flying these planes for company purposes, and my company wants formal training to satisfy their insurance.

I'd appreciate from anyone who can share:

- Various facilities that offer this training
- The quality of their services/good or bad experience
- Pricing

I'd think a community like this would probably offer me more useful information than a website that's trying to convince you to give the company that made the website money.

Thanks in advance!

-Bob
 
Contact the manufacturer for the Cessna 400 and the Cirrus - they have specific Syllabi and train CFI's to their standards. They'll also have a list of the CFI's they've trained.

We're getting Cessna 400 on the line here soon, and two instructors got trained by Cessna, and they will train the other instructors who will train the renters.
 
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Tim's got the right answer. The school I used for PP had a Cirrus Certified training program and all the CSIP stuff that went with it.

I stayed far away from their $160/hr (and up) plastic airplanes but some folks seem to like'em...
 
Hi:

I may be able to help some. I have a Cessna 400 (2006 with G-1000, SLX) available for transition training and a very qualified instructor who has trained in Columbia 350 and 400s for 4 years. I have corporate housing or local motels near the flight school.

Please have a look at my website: www.nwoflight.com.

Scott
 
Thanks for the great advice, Tim. I will contact the manufacturers and see who they can recommend to me. Have you had any experiences with SimCom or Flight Safety? I've heard good things about both, but I haven't talked to anyone who's had any direct interaction with them.

Scott, I would be interested in your 400 for the training, however the CFI needs to be more than "very qualified" for the purposes of my company. I was specifically told that just a qualified CFI won't cut it for these requirements, that it would need to be a manufacturer authorized or otherwise respected training facility. I suppose what we're looking for is, at the completion of my training, to come away with not only the skills but also something along the lines of a certificate of completion that states I completed a manufacturer-approved syllabus. This keeps the company lawyers happy, even though you and I know that a mere certificate isn't necessarily a measure of the quality of training received. I didn't notice on your website whether or not you listed your 400 transition training as being factory approved, but if you have more info, I'd certainly be interested in talking with you further.

-Bob
 
PilotBob said:
Thanks for the great advice, Tim. I will contact the manufacturers and see who they can recommend to me. Have you had any experiences with SimCom or Flight Safety? I've heard good things about both, but I haven't talked to anyone who's had any direct interaction with them.

-Bob
Click to expand...

I've never been a student of either (yet) but have visited both, and know many folks who've gone through initial type ratings, recurrent training, etc.

Both are top-notch. They'll typically give you "homework" before you show up, as well as advising you you need to be sharp on arrival. Then you drink from a fire-hose for the prescribed time, and get tested/evaluated, and sent on your way. SimCom had more "GA" offerings, in my recollection.

I applaud the manufacturers and the FAA for the whole FITS initiative - the airplanes marketed to new pilots are WAAAAY ahead of what we used to see in the "entry level", and the makers have realized that standardized training to proficiency is the way to keep the operations insurable.

I heard a hint from Ron in a recent CFICast that the FAA will be undertaking a review of the whole training process in the near future. My personal guesses will be a rewrite of the PTS and ACs addressing instruction to place more empahasis on scenario-based training, and proficiency in the various levels of flight automation, even if they don't specifically rewrite any parts of 61 on this pass.
 
Well, my designated instructor for Cessna 400 transitions is an RJ Captain for the Delta regional, has been a Columbia factory trained/approved instructor, has taught at several of the Columbia Recurrent Training programs, also provides advanced training in Bonaza and Baron aircraft, and finally, also provides training in other TAA such as Diamond and Cirrus. I am quite sure he exceeds the experience of nearly anyone else you may come across for this purpose.

Scott
 
Scott,

Can your CFI sign off a pilot as "having successfully completed the Columbia 400 FITS transition syllabus" or something similar?

When I went through training on a G1000/GFC700 C182 a while back with a local FBO, I recieved a certificate saying something similar.

I think that kind of verbiage is what Bob (and his insurance) is looking for.
 
Thanks again, Tim, your help has been extremely valuable. I've talked with the manufacturers this morning and I've got a better idea now of what's out there and available.

Scott, I hope I didn't come off as insulting you or your instructor. I'm sure your instructor is proficient in the aircraft and top-notch, but Tim had it right on the money when he said that the insurance company needs for me to come away from this training with more than log book entries to be satisfied. "I believe he can" unfortunately is not an acceptable answer to them. If he can, I will certainly consider your offer. After speaking with Cessna/Columbia, they indicated that after the acquisition that anything relating to Columbia was effectively disavowed, and that a number of changes occurred regarding the legalities of their programs.

Thanks again for the great help!
 
Bob,

Perhaps you could have PM'd me and you could have spoken to my instructor. As of next week he will be certifed by Cessna as well as his previous certification from Columbia. Perhaps, I was a little put off by the wording of your post. I was trying to offer you an option. I have tried very hard to only offer prospective clients the best qualified instructors I can find and use the best equipment I can afford.

While my flight school is a new one, I am attempting to make it one of the best available!

Scott
 
Geez, Scott, I don't see anything in the wording of Bob's post that indicates that he's insinuating your instructor is unqualified. Sounds like Tim's assessment was right on the money. That's a great way to greet newcomers and get them to join our little group, and also convince them to come to your flight school. :rolleyes:

Bob, welcome, and I hope you stick around! Good luck on getting your training, and let us know how it goes! :yes:
 
Geez Ted, perhaps you are reading too much into my last post. I was simply pointing out that my attempts are aimed at providing a better exprience/opportunity than that offered at other sites.
 
Bob, I also want to say welcome and I encourage you to keep posting here and become part of our community. There are a lot of great people here. Also, report back here as to where you go for training and about your experience. That way future searchers have a reference. BTW - you'll be flying a C400, SR22, and Mirage for work? I'm jealous...
 
Thanks for the warm welcome! Thanks to the help I've received I've been able to do the research that I need, and from here can submit the info I need to my company regarding this venue. We'll see what happens from here. In case anyone else is interested, here's what I've found:

Flight Safety and SimCom both offer training in the Malibu Mirage/Matrix planes. They seem to be good programs and don't require that you own the plane to take the programs, but if you don't have a plane then you will only get simulator time in the plane, rather than any actual time.

For the Cirrus and Cessna, both manufacturers offer programs at or near their production facilities. Cirrus doesn't have an SR22 Turbo to rent, only an SR22, so if you want to take the course for an SR22 Turbo you need to provide your own. Cessna will rent you a 350 or a 400.

The various FITS programs are available elsewhere and I am sure are taught by highly qualified instructors, however for the purposes of my company (read: insurance), the boss wanted me to propose taking these courses offered directly at the manufacturer. This is fine by me, I would relish in the opportunity to see their facilities up front.

I'll be sure to report back if this results in me taking any of these courses, and let you all know my opinions on them. I've got another company-sponsored thread that I'll go ask in Flight Following.

Thanks again!

-Bob
 
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