Transport question

Code90

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Code90
I have a joke question (sort of).

If I transport a kidney across state lines for a transplant team, what certification do I need?

Can I fly under part 91 still, or must I use part 135? How many organs from one person must be on board to round up to a whole person and require me to be ATP certified? If I give instruction to the kidney, can I fly as a CFI? Can I split the costs and pay a pro rata share with the kidney? If I do it once a week on the same day, then do follow part 121? If I fly it over a national park, is that part 136?

But seriously, what would be required?
 
Per the FAA, spose that would be a PPL, or a CPL if you're getting paid, as far as FAA is concerned it's just cargo.

Now I'm sure other state and fed agencies might want some other certification.

Big question is who in their right mind would ask some random dude to transport organs :no:
 
Would not be a random dude. It is always "who you know." Also have other certifications that would make me a shoe in.
I was surprised at the money involved in these transports. The obvious downside is that there is a definate time limitation and there would be more than just a "get there'itis" push. Literally a life and limb on the line flight.

I am somewhat confused as to what rules I would have to follow from FAA. Currently fly under part 91, just for fun and family transport.
 
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Well, if it's a family kidney and you didn't get any compensation including logged flight time, nor the enjoyment of giving away the family member's organs... LOL...

I'm guessing you'll be hard pressed to find a scenario where it isn't a commercial flight UNLESS you can fly it for one of the NAMED charitable organizations with waivers.

Haven't seen a "Pilots 'N' Livers" group on the list yet. Heh.
 
Would not be a random dude. It is always "who you know." Also have other certifications that would make me a shoe in.
I was surprised at the money involved in these transports. The obvious downside is that there is a definate time limitation and there would be more than just a "get there'itis" push. Literally a life and limb on the line flight.

I am somewhat confused as to what rules I would have to follow from FAA. Currently fly under part 91, just for fun and family transport.

If you're looking to get into the EMS game, you're talking a 135 cert, 135 maintained airplane, 135 qualified pilot, probably a med crew, whatever ambulance licenses are needed for where you are.


Also there is no "get there itis" there is no "mission" folks trying to save the world are the ones who get them selves and their pt killed, the industry has been trying to eliminate that mindset. As far as a medical pilot is concerned what in the back of the plane might as well be random boxes.
 
Usually a cut team travels with the organ,part 135. Have done a couple.
 
If you're looking to get into the EMS game, you're talking a 135 cert, 135 maintained airplane, 135 qualified pilot, probably a med crew, whatever ambulance licenses are needed for where you are.


Also there is no "get there itis" there is no "mission" folks trying to save the world are the ones who get them selves and their pt killed, the industry has been trying to eliminate that mindset. As far as a medical pilot is concerned what in the back of the plane might as well be random boxes.

So very true. It is hard to turn down a trip that may save a patients life, but will put the pilot and 2 medics lives in danger.

The first thing I tell new pilots is that the patients condition is not part of the go/no go decision. It is much better to have the patient on the ground with the doctor than on the ground at a rural airport away from medical facilities waiting out weather.

If you are wanting to start an air ambulance operation then that will be a part 135 operation.

And starting with a large amount of money....
 
So very true. It is hard to turn down a trip that may save a patients life, but will put the pilot and 2 medics lives in danger.

The first thing I tell new pilots is that the patients condition is not part of the go/no go decision. It is much better to have the patient on the ground with the doctor than on the ground at a rural airport away from medical facilities waiting out weather.

If you are wanting to start an air ambulance operation then that will be a part 135 operation.

And starting with a large amount of money....

I'm looking for the NTSB report of the Maryland Medevac Helo that went down in Bad Wx and then the State Police chopper went down in a rescue attempt.
 
Well, if it's a family kidney and you didn't get any compensation including logged flight time, nor the enjoyment of giving away the family member's organs... LOL...

I'm guessing you'll be hard pressed to find a scenario where it isn't a commercial flight UNLESS you can fly it for one of the NAMED charitable organizations with waivers.

Haven't seen a "Pilots 'N' Livers" group on the list yet. Heh.

Nate......

You are one sick SOB......:yes:

But I LOVE the humor... don't stop....:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
I would bet you need to look into hazardous waste permits...a quick google search didn't reveal much information confirming or denying that though...
 
I'm looking for the NTSB report of the Maryland Medevac Helo that went down in Bad Wx and then the State Police chopper went down in a rescue attempt.

Confusion.... the Maryland MedEVAC helicopters and the State Police helicopters are the same thing.

The most recent was this one
http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.a...-f954-4d31-92e1-9916a1888451&pgno=2&pgsize=50

The one before that was January 19, 1986. I was a paramedic up in Balitmore County. My lieutenant, who later went on the head field ops for MIEMSS, was the one who found the wreck. They were on their way back from shockorama when they entered IMC and crashed in a wooded area of western Baltimore City.
At that time the helicopters were not equipped for instrument flight.

No NTSB report on that one I could find. MD used to operate their helos (similar to the FAA) as public aircraft and hence didn't need to follow the FARs (most onerously for maintenance) and I guess for NTSB reporting issues.

There was a similar earlier crash involving IMC and one due to an engine failure.

None appear to match your description.
 
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I've been thinking about a dead body delivery service when I retire. Work with mortuaries to deliver bodies to remote areas for burial. No get there itis and no passenger complaints. It would definitely be a 135 cargo service.
So. how do you answer the "soles on board" question?
 
So. how do you answer the "soles on board" question?

Soles on board is typically 2 x the number of bodies.
Hopefully the souls have already departed.

I had a friend who was a mortician's daughter (and anyone cadaver).

Of course, one of the DC-10 incidents involved the cadaver being sucked out the cargo door. That one was extremely lucky in that was the only casualty, unlike the subsequent failure from the same defect that resulted in the (then) largest loss of life in an aviation crash (it's still #4 on the all time list).
 
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how do you answer the "soles on board" question?

Four. Fewer if you or the "pax" is an amputee, more if you're using the ice in the back to transport flatfish.

Edit: I'm too slow but at least I added a bonus fish joke :)
 
Four. Fewer if you or the "pax" is an amputee, more if you're using the ice in the back to transport flatfish.

I was at a wedding once and on the wall was a picture of two bare feet pointing up and one bare foot on top pointing downward. I was confused by that until someone told me to think about the groom. Then I got it...he only had one leg (having lost it in a NASCAR racing accident many years earlier).
 
I've carried a bucket blood for Angel Flight. Does that count?

They didn't pay me, but I deducted the direct expenses on my 1040.
 
If I transport a kidney across state lines for a transplant team, what certification do I need?
Are you doing it free, like an Angel Flight operation? If so, PPL is sufficient (even Sport Pilot if you're in an LSA). If you're getting paid, you need commercial pilot and commercial operating certificates.

Can I fly under part 91 still, or must I use part 135?
As noted above, if you're doing it free, Part 91, but if you're getting paid, it's a Part 135 operation.
 
I've been thinking about a dead body delivery service when I retire. Work with mortuaries to deliver bodies to remote areas for burial. No get there itis and no passenger complaints. It would definitely be a 135 cargo service.
So. how do you answer the "soles on board" question?
You put the number of live people in the "persons on board" block and then note the presence and number corpses in the Remarks block. BTDT. BTW, unless you don't mind a naked dead body next to you, bring your own sheet to cover the body -- morticians are frugal, and they keep the sheet that was around the body when they deliver it to the plane unless you have another one to trade for the one already in place.
 
You put the number of live people in the "persons on board" block and then note the presence and number corpses in the Remarks block. BTDT. BTW, unless you don't mind a naked dead body next to you, bring your own sheet to cover the body -- morticians are frugal, and they keep the sheet that was around the body when they deliver it to the plane unless you have another one to trade for the one already in place.



:yikes::hairraise:..

You are sheeting me.. right ???:dunno:......:D
 
Confusion.... the Maryland MedEVAC helicopters and the State Police helicopters are the same thing.

The most recent was this one
http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.a...-f954-4d31-92e1-9916a1888451&pgno=2&pgsize=50

The one before that was January 19, 1986. I was a paramedic up in Balitmore County. My lieutenant, who later went on the head field ops for MIEMSS, was the one who found the wreck. They were on their way back from shockorama when they entered IMC and crashed in a wooded area of western Baltimore City.
At that time the helicopters were not equipped for instrument flight.

No NTSB report on that one I could find. MD used to operate their helos (similar to the FAA) as public aircraft and hence didn't need to follow the FARs (most onerously for maintenance) and I guess for NTSB reporting issues.

There was a similar earlier crash involving IMC and one due to an engine failure.

None appear to match your description.

That does seem to jog my memory, but in the narrative I read, the last helicopter to go was warned not to go and he insisted.
 
Of course, one of the DC-10 incidents involved the cadaver being sucked out the cargo door. That one was extremely lucky in that was the only casualty, unlike the subsequent failure from the same defect that resulted in the (then) largest loss of life in an aviation crash (it's still #4 on the all time list).

Reminds me of a riddle (with a twist) that may be familiar:

If a plane full of passengers crashes on the border between the US and Canada, , where half the plane is in Canada and the other half is in the US where do you put the survivor's memorial?
 
You put the number of live people in the "persons on board" block and then note the presence and number corpses in the Remarks block. BTDT. BTW, unless you don't mind a naked dead body next to you, bring your own sheet to cover the body -- morticians are frugal, and they keep the sheet that was around the body when they deliver it to the plane unless you have another one to trade for the one already in place.

This is what I have always done.

And we don't carry unless at least bagged.

Funny part, I have a pilot that can take anything, except a body. Even if the body is in a bag he gets the dry heaves...:rofl::rofl::rofl: The medics have a training dummy that looks too much like a real person. That freaks him out, and truthfully, it does me a little too. Especially when they leave it naked and sitting in a chair in the conference room.
 
:yikes::hairraise:..

You are sheeting me.. right ???:dunno:......:D
Regrettably, no, as one of the other pilots at the outfit for which I flew discovered the hard way. After that, we always carried a spare sheet. Good news is the undertaker who picks up the body from you will have another sheet to exchange for the one wrapped around the body so you can put that clean sheet in storage for the next "body run".
 
I would bet you need to look into hazardous waste permits...a quick google search didn't reveal much information confirming or denying that though...
For dead bodies? No. Not for transplantable body parts, either.
 
And we don't carry unless at least bagged.
Really no big deal if they've already been embalmed, which is a requirement for interstate transport and in most states for intrastate transport.
Funny part, I have a pilot that can take anything, except a body. Even if the body is in a bag he gets the dry heaves...:rofl::rofl::rofl: The medics have a training dummy that looks too much like a real person. That freaks him out, and truthfully, it does me a little too. Especially when they leave it naked and sitting in a chair in the conference room.
Could be worse. Now, first, it didn't happen to me. But I flew with the pilot it DID happen to, and thereon hangs a tale…

A long time ago I worked as a charter pilot for an outfit called Kentucky Flying Service (since sold to others and renamed Triangle Flying Service, which eventually went under and the space was taken by Louisville Aviation) in Louisville (that's "Lou-a-vul", not "Lewie-vil") Kentucky. We were pretty cheap, and therefore popular with folks that wanted people or stuff flown, and didn't much care about amenities like coffee bars, leather seats, and sexy paint jobs, and didn't squawk much if the Janitrol heaters were a bit shaky -- that's what coats are for. For that reason, the local undertakers all had KFS's number scribbled on the wall by their phones. When someone died somewhere else and the family wanted the funeral in the River City, we got the call.

Now, undertakers seem to be pretty cost-conscious, and they do not like spending the extra bucks for the big twin when they can charter a C-182 for half the price (“Ain’t nobody we care about gonna get kilt if th’ engine quits.”). Further, they are not about to spend the bucks to transport any more weight or bulk than they have to, and there’s no way they’re paying for either a shipping crate or the return of a loaner. So they do not ship the body in a coffin, casket, or any other container. When you pick up a body, you pick up a body - that's it. We had our own body rack built that clipped into the seat tracks on a 182 when the right and rear seats were removed. And the shipping funeral director won't even give you the sheet he used to wrap the body, so you'd better have one of your own unless you like looking at some naked stiff next to lying next to you all the way home. Fortunately, they do understand that charter pilots simply will NOT handle the body, so I never had any trouble when I pointed them at the airplane, handed them the sheet, and told them I had to go get a weather briefing - please have the body on board by the time I get back. I'd get back in the plane with some six-foot sheet-wrapped lump strapped to the rack (feet forward, head aft), and head for home, where I would show the receiving undertakers the body, and announce the urgent need for a pit stop - please have the body out of the plane by the time I get back.

Now, one time, one of our pilots was sent out to the west end of the state to pick up some poor guy who fell out of a speedboat and drowned while on vacation. The family wanted the body back in Louisville as fast as it could be moved, and we got the call. What you may not know is that a lot of rules about corpse handling and processing change when the body is shipped across state lines. Federal law requires that bodies be "prepped" by embalming and such, before you send one from one state to another. However, intrastate body shipment has no such requirements - it's state laws only, and in Kentucky, you could send 'em "as is." And since this was intrastate, they decided not to spend the extra bucks on any of that preparation. Further, Willie apparently didn't make the strap-down procedure all that clear, and they only got the front (legs) strap on before they laid the sheet over him. Willie chose not to look under the sheet to check for security - smooth day, no turbulence, it wasn't going anywhere…

Well, we pilots know about trapped gases, and altitude effects and all that. And most folks know that dead meat tends to undergo some biochemical changes due to the bacteria and such still very much alive in the body unless cleaned out (see "preparation," above). About the time Willie got through 4000 feet or so, the pressure changes worked enough that some of those gases started expanding and moving into different parts of the body, and the body started to jackknife. You may remember that this one was strapped around the thighs, but not the chest, and the net effect was that the body began to perform a sit-up. Poor Willie was sitting there, cruising along, minding his own business, when he heard the rustle of the sheet falling away, and looked over to see the corpse sitting bolt-upright beside him. I understand Evansville Approach heard him even though he forgot to key the mike. Utterly convinced that the body was coming back to life, he declared an emergency, landed, and was met by the paramedics, who upon discovering the situation, laughed long and hard - insult added to injury.

Willie returned to KFS, delivered the now-completely-strapped down corpse, and informed the Chief Pilot that he was refusing to accept any future body runs. Me, I just made sure that both straps were wrapped AROUND the sheet - not under it. Hey, it's flying time, it's money in my pocket, and in that business, passengers who don't smoke, don't touch things, and don't complain are a pleasure.
 
:rofl::rofl::rofl::hairraise:

I have seen bodies twitch a little, but sitting up in a plane takes the prize..!!
 
I frequently get some opinionated answers when I ask whether the capital of Kentucky is pronounced "Lou-a-vul" or "Lewie-vil". After it settles down, I point out that I pronounce it FRANKFURT.
 
I frequently get some opinionated answers when I ask whether the capital of Kentucky is pronounced "Lou-a-vul" or "Lewie-vil". After it settles down, I point out that I pronounce it FRANKFURT.

And I bet most people get the answer wrong..:lol::lol::lol:
 
I was hatched /born in Louisville.. Or so my birth cert says...:rolleyes:

The proper way to pronounce Louisville is... Talk like your mount is full of marbles Lou-a-vul
 
Once, many years ago, working in a hospital, I had the unfortunate job of taking a dead body to the morgue. We had a metal table with a cloth tent like cover that surrounded it (hiding the body inside). We took the body down the back / staff elevators. While riding down to the basement, the elevator stopped at the 3rd floor. A female janitorial worker was standing waiting to get on for a ride. While usually in this instance, they would never climb aboard, this lady must have been in a hurry. She entered the elevator with a scared look over her shoulder and stared forward as the doors closed in front of her. She took a couple more glances back as we started down toward the basement.
As a mischievous young man, I couldn't help myself. I grabbed the metal gourney and shook it to make the sound of a dead body coming alive. I think the poor lady nearly clawed her way through the stainless steel doors trying to get away. By the time the doors opened on the next floor, I thought we would have to do CPR on our poor victim.
I suspect I may have to explain my behavior one day to St Peter. I hope I have done enough to make up for it since...
 
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I have a joke question (sort of).

If I transport a kidney across state lines for a transplant team, what certification do I need?

Can I fly under part 91 still, or must I use part 135? How many organs from one person must be on board to round up to a whole person and require me to be ATP certified? If I give instruction to the kidney, can I fly as a CFI? Can I split the costs and pay a pro rata share with the kidney? If I do it once a week on the same day, then do follow part 121? If I fly it over a national park, is that part 136?

But seriously, what would be required?

The answer revolves around where the money to conduct the flight comes from.

Example one, you are tinkering with your plane on the ramp, you are a PP, someone comes running out and says, "Can you get this kidney to the next town over?" You say sure, toss the cooler in the plane and head on over and drop it with the waiting courier and head home. Your only reward is the feeling you get from the kindness. This is completely legal.

Example two, You are a CP sitting around the FBO, the kidney comes in. The FBO owner offers up his planes for civic good deeds as a member of whatever fraternal organization for free, sees you sitting there, "Dude, I'll pay you $25 to fly this to the next town over, take my Archer, here's the keys." This is completely legal.

Example three. You work for an FBO, kidney comes in, they are going to charge $1000 to get it to the next town over. Now the FBO needs a Pt 135 Air Taxi Operators Certificate, and you need to be qualified for 135 and part of their operation with a 135 check ride for them.
 
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