Transiting Class C surface area only - contact Tower or Approach

Fearless Tower

Fearless Tower

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Fearless Tower
Never really given this much thought, but having the biplane based just outside of the Norfolk Class C, there are a few scenic areas within the Class C surface area that might be good for giving rides.

If I'm flying at 1000' underneath the outer shelf and want to transition through the surface area, should I call Tower and make the request of Approach?
 
It's my understanding that tower controls the runway. Approach controls everything else. So, if you're not landing at the class C airport then you should never need to talk to tower.
 
Tower "should" control the five mile ring up to a specific altitude. If it is ORF then up to 4,000' So if you're talking to approach and want to go into tower's airspace just ask. Not a big deal.
 
I'd go with what Tim said above. Don't know if it's universal but the only two Cs I asked the question to said the same. Inside the surface area of the C, tower controls. Any transitions are either coordinated with tower or they hand off the aircraft to tower if traffic dictates.

I'd call call approach first, let them decide if they want to ship you over to tower or not.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Tower "should" control the five mile ring up to a specific altitude. If it is ORF then up to 4,000' So if you're talking to approach and want to go into tower's airspace just ask. Not a big deal.
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What if you aren't already talking to Approach though? That is my real question.

The route I would take involves flying through the Chambers Class D at 1000' along the river and then turning east along the shoreline which enters the ORF surface area pretty close to the runway. I would be talking to Chambers Tower and then switching. It seems like in that close proximity, I'd want to switch strait to ORF tower vice Approach who might then shift me over to tower.
 
Then ask Chambers tower for the switch. I'm not familiar with the area but I would assume that they have a direct line to adjacent ATC facilities.
 
The best way to find that out would be to contact Norfolk ATCT/TRACON and ask them directly. They will advise you what would be best. If you do this without prior coordination, you might be surprised with some of the things that they need you to do, which could include not doing it at all.

757-460-5142
 
I get this a lot in the Bay Area. If you're starting from a D, just ask for a squawk on the ground, indicating your path. I always end up going straight from Tower to Tower. For instance, taking off from KRHV for a low-level Bay Tour, I'll go from RHV's tower, to the C tower at SJC, off to three D towers in order, NUQ, PAO, SQL, then on to the B tower at SFO. On the transition through Oakland, I'll get both OAK C towers in a row, and then on to SQL or PAO. Down low, I may never talk to NORCAL.

But the key is that I started with a squawk and was transitioned. I've never successfully called up a B or C tower directly.
 
I really suspect it's how you are approaching the class C and which one it is. I can tell you at GSO you need to talk to approach. At IAD's class B, you used to be able to skip to the "final" approach controller if you want to enter low through the side wall. Now that you have to play the "transponder observed foolishness" I doubt that game works anymore.
 
Fearless Tower said:
What if you aren't already talking to Approach though? That is my real question.

The route I would take involves flying through the Chambers Class D at 1000' along the river and then turning east along the shoreline which enters the ORF surface area pretty close to the runway. I would be talking to Chambers Tower and then switching. It seems like in that close proximity, I'd want to switch strait to ORF tower vice Approach who might then shift me over to tower.
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My not so recent experience with Class B, C and TRSA's is that the tower doesn't want to be cold called... Call approach, let them get you in the system, give you a number, and hand you off..
 
Doggtyred said:
Class B, C and TRSA's is that the tower doesn't want to be cold called...
Call approach, let them get you in the system, give you a number, and hand you off..
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This.

There is a reason on the sectional there is a dialog box adjacent to C airspace that says "Contact Approach on xx.xxx within 20 miles"
 
Shawn said:
This.

There is a reason on the sectional there is a dialog box adjacent to C airspace that says "Contact Approach on xx.xxx within 20 miles"
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But those are not always right. Follow the magenta boxes out of PAO at night (Class G) to get through San Jose, and you'll get a bunch of handoffs. Last time, I got three NorCal handoffs at low altitude with "remain clear class B and C", then San Jose Tower. Curiously, no Moffett handoff even though their tower was still open.
 
Well yeah, not a universal rule that applies to every situation but absent a published procedure...or even a local procedure that says otherwise Approach is the place you should start communications to transition the airspace as a default.

LAX Bravo Mini Route has you make inital contact with LAX Tower directly for after hours transitions when HHR and SMO Towers are closed and you are not on FF.
 
Tower is going to own the airspace for a small number of miles around the airport and up to maybe 3000ft AGL in most cases. For a 1000ft transition close to the field, I'd call the tower first. I was going to list the RHV departure example in norcal where you get handed immediately to SJC tower, but I see it was already posted.
 
I'd just give the tower a ring and see what they'd prefer. If you're not landing there and they've got nothing going on in the pattern, then approach will coordinate the transition. If you're landing or they've got traffic in the pattern, then going up tower immediately might be the best option.

Calling approach will definitely work but in your case, staying below the outer shelf and so close to the core, tower might tell you to just go up their freq.
 
Looks like it's split right down the middle.

I'm in the call approach group unless I'm landing at the controlled field.
 
It's interesting to read these posts because I had a similar situation @Fearless Tower. I took off from 48X which is like 2 mins from the KSRQ class C, was headed to Venice and wanted to go down the coast. Going through approach then tower would have taken too much time and I didn't have it, so I just contacted Tower and requested a Charlie transition down the coast, no problems.

I've also been on long cross countries VFR (no FF) where I'll just go right to Tower instead of approach then tower.

And..sometimes approach is just too darn busy. I'm had flights where I can't get a word in as they are so busy coordinating outbound traffic and multiple airspace transitions. I'll just switch over to tower in that case as well.

Would I like to go through approach first? Yep. But it's not always timely or feasible depending on the mission.

The ONLY exceptions I believe are where contacting approach is required..such as on a VFR sectional.
 
Unit74 said:
Looks like it's split right down the middle.

I'm in the call approach group unless I'm landing at the controlled field.
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Add me to the "call approach first" crowd. If they want you in tower they'll tell. Vice verse is true, too. The "right answer" will ultimately only come from that particular facility, not POA,
 
I also vote to contact approach control first. Sometimes the handoffs that may occur are the results of "letters of agreements" made between facilities on how to handle traffic. Thus, the seemingly confusing scenarios where you may be flying in airspace belonging to one facility with another controlling.

And yes, the tower will own the airspace that starts from the surface. Not just the runways.
 
LDJones said:
The "right answer" will ultimately only come from that particular facility, not POA,
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This seems to be true.

Harold had the most correct answer in post #7......since every facility handles things a bit different, it is best to call the specific facility on the land line to see what they prefer and work it out in advance.

I'm in contact and working with the Norfolk tower folks to come up with the best route that works for everyone.
 
MAKG1 said:
But those are not always right. Follow the magenta boxes out of PAO at night (Class G) to get through San Jose, and you'll get a bunch of handoffs. Last time, I got three NorCal handoffs at low altitude with "remain clear class B and C", then San Jose Tower. Curiously, no Moffett handoff even though their tower was still open.
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Just because you weren't handed off is irrelevant. Approach might have handled you through Moffett's space but only if they precleared it with them first. There can be a lot that happens behind the scenes you are unaware of or dont hear about.
 
Went to a class at the school at MGM recently on communications. One of the facility managers was there and this particular subject came up. MGM is class D and is also a TRSA, he said that basically, It doesn't matter and many times it is the same guy anyway. He also said that it varies from place to place so I don't think there is a "right" answer.
 
Generally you should contact approach first. The approach controller will coordinate your flight path w/ the tower, and hand you off IF the tower wants you on their frequency. Some slow facilities, such as MGM above, may have the approach function in the tower cab at times. GPT used to have the approach function in the tower all the time years ago. A busy place like ATL I've seen GA cross midfield but remain on approach. ATL tower usually informed us of that traffic. I've taken off from DeKalb Peachtree going to MGM (SW of ATL) and have crossed midfield climbing to my cruise altitude a few times. At ATL there are 4 primary arrival corridors and numerous departure procedures out of there. Working w/ approach keeps one away from the airline traffic in that Class B.
 
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