Training flight from Denver to KASE

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coflyer

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coflyer
There is a group of about 20 kids and their parents coming to participate in outdoor training camp in Aspen. The kids are from 4 yo to 16 yo. They also want a primer on general aviation, so we plan to take them XC from the city to Aspen, departing from either BJC or APA. A jet is not what we are looking for. Instead, 4 or 6 seat piston airplanes are ideal, so each family can take one airplane together with an instructor. Some introductory instruction is desired during the flight, so that the kids can touch the controls and actually gain some flight hours.

This is just a one-way trip. After arrival at ASE, the kids will stay there for other outdoor activities, and the airplanes can just flight back to the city. Wondering if there are any operators, instructors or flight schools can perform this operation. Or you can recommend someone who might help. Appreciate any of your suggestions.
 
1) Is the sponsoring organization 501(c)3?
2) What is the situation with insurance?
3) You do realize that most 4-seat pistons aint gonna make it except by a non-direct route, right?
4) Unless the CFI owns the airplane, this is going to cost $$$

Personally, I would never let a non-pilot touch the controls during a flight involving mountains.

Why not run a Young Eagle program at BJC then transport the families by ground?

IIRC both McAir (now owned by Aspen) and Western have charter options, but again, $$$$.
 
APA-ASE is 30 minutes in my turbo Mooney, sniffing oxygen. Not exactly a teachable moment. Also, the arrival and descent into ASE can be tricky and will require the pilot's full attention during the last half of the flight.

I think murphey's suggestion is a good one.
 
ditto opinion. Those mountains are serious business, not play time. Seems if you live and fly out of that area, you probably know that already.
 
1) Is the sponsoring organization 501(c)3?
No. It's commercial operation.

2) What is the situation with insurance?
We are happy to discuss with any operators to figure out proper insurance.

3) You do realize that most 4-seat pistons aint gonna make it except by a non-direct route, right?
High performance airplanes are needed. A non-direct route is OK.

4) Unless the CFI owns the airplane, this is going to cost $$$
We'll pay any reasonable market value for airplane and instructor time.

In principal, we want to figure out if this operation is doable, safely, reliably, and under full FAA regulations. And what kind of operators shall we reach out to? Thank you
 
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The problem is that there are not many 4-6 seat piston airplanes around at flight schools which could reasonably take a family (2-3 people?) plus instructor into Aspen. It could also be seen as borderline charter unless the child is old enough to reasonably learn something from instruction. A 16-year old, yes. A 4-year-old, probably not. You couldn't request this of a 135 operator because, by regulation, passengers are not allowed to manipulate the controls. Not only that, most 135 operators in the Denver area use turboprops or jets for passenger operations.
 
coflyer said:
In principal, we want to figure out if this operation is doable, safely, reliably, and under full FAA regulations. And what kind of operators shall we reach out to? Thank you
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Western Air Flight Academy out of BJC might be able to accommodate you with their 182.

Aspen Flying Club out of APA currently lists three 182's and a 210 so they may be able to do something.

I think both organizations have experienced mountain instructors. I don't know about the legalities.

It would be a wonderful opportunity for kids and parents to puke all over the aircraft and generally be miserable for several hours after the flight.
 
murphey said:
IIRC both McAir (now owned by Aspen) and Western have charter options, but again, $$$$.
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I think you have the above reversed. AFAIK, McAir is still owned by Gary and John who purchased it from Travis a number of years ago. Western, on the other hand, was recently purchased by Aspen.
 
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Referring to KAPA, I'll second Aspen Flying Club and add Independence Aviation to the list. Independence maintains a large fleet of Cirrus aircraft which can easily make the trip.

The idea that most piston singles can't make that trip is not quite true. In fact, most can, but you just need to load and fly them carefully. You don't want to pick an airplane for this mission that doesn't have pretty good power margins. C182 would be the minimum. It is possible, if not necessarily advisable, to fly almost anyplace in Colorado without needing to don oxygen.

As far as touching the controls, did anyone say that the controls must be touched "in the mountains"? Go make some turns over Chatfield or, better yet, fly over South Park and do some turns in between Eleven Mile and Antero reservoirs. It's flat as a pancake there with mountains visible, but no factor, in every direction. I let my non-pilot brother do some turns there, nbd. That isn't really "in the mountains" but it's near enough to the mountains to feel like it.

This is going to cost major bucks, too. Especially if you use Cirrus aircraft, but even if you don't. It would be a logistical problem to get all the kids up front for stick time. You wouldn't want them trying to change seats in flight - yikes.

Civil Air Patrol's Colorado Wing does Orientation Flights for their cadets all the time but they have to land and let kids switch seats.
 
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If no one but you can touch the controls in the mountains then you're too close to the rocks.
 
ejensen said:
If no one but you can touch the controls in the mountains then you're too close to the rocks.
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Na, I'm just to terrified to let go of the controls. :D
 
ejensen said:
If no one but you can touch the controls in the mountains then you're too close to the rocks.
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Nonsense. You can be 1000 feet off the rocks and catch a wind gust that freaks out the non pilot in the right seat.

Among other things, you want this to be an enjoyable experience, right?
 
Planning an event to fly into the mountains is bound to end up in pain, eventually.

You may show up with expectant families at the airport and the winds aloft are whipping 50 and there ain't no brains in going to KASE on a day like that without some serious horsepower. And even then...
 
MAKG1 said:
Nonsense. You can be 1000 feet off the rocks and catch a wind gust that freaks out the non pilot in the right seat.

Among other things, you want this to be an enjoyable experience, right?
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Not sure what you mean. The non pilot crashes the plane? Why would it not be enjoyable due to handling the controls?

I do it all the time with non pilots who want to try the controls. I also don't go if it is too windy.
 
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