Traffic in sight....... J/K

korben88 said:
Correct Makg. This was in SLCs bravo, when we went down to Provo I identified and announced other traffic.

I think what he was ultimately trying to say (I will clarify when I see him next) is that in Class B airspace it's eaiser (better?) to just worry about flying instead of searching out traffic. I was on a straight in final, and I think he just wanted me to not spend a ton of time looking for the traffic.

I may be wrong, and again will have him explain in more detail next lesson.
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You should have flying the airplane come first in any situation inside any airspace. Even though ATC provides separation services to VFR aircraft within Class B airspace doesn't negate the fact that you should advise ATC when traffic is insight. It's not a time to be playing games.

Your instructor may be trying to simplify things for you and that's great, but in the long run it's not a practice I'd continue.
 
For what it's worth my first CFI used to use looking for traffic, I learnt that and then used it with my current CFI and I was explicitly told it's either traffic in sight or no/negative contact. Looking does no good, u ARE supposed to be looking as a VFR pilot

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korben88 said:
Correct Makg. This was in SLCs bravo, when we went down to Provo I identified and announced other traffic.

I think what he was ultimately trying to say (I will clarify when I see him next) is that in Class B airspace it's eaiser (better?) to just worry about flying instead of searching out traffic. I was on a straight in final, and I think he just wanted me to not spend a ton of time looking for the traffic.

I may be wrong, and again will have him explain in more detail next lesson.
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In my opinion it is always best to be looking for traffic when flying an aircraft. The likely hood of hitting another aircraft is pretty small; the consequences of hitting another aircraft in flight are large. It is ultimately my job as a pilot to see and avoid other traffic no matter who I am talking to.

ATC has a challenging job managing the flow of aircraft and I want to help them any way I can because my life may depend on their success.

In my experience reporting traffic in sight allows ATC more options on how to handle things that give me more opportunity to exercise my judgement.

I would appreciate you helping me understand what lesson your flight instructor was trying to teach you. I have had clients completely misunderstand something I have said and come away with a flawed lesson. I want to become a better instructor so this sort of information is very helpful to me.
 
I take a bit further than just responding to ATC on traffic calls. If I'm in or near a B, C, or D and talking to ATC and there is traffic near me that they haven't called out I'm asking ATC about it. I don't know what that traffic is going to do so I want to know what is going on if at all possible. Two occasions come to mind both were with military traffic so they were UHF. One was a helicopter on approach to a parallel runway in Delta airspace. I was IFR just out of IMC. The other was in Charlie airspace when a C-130 was dropping cadet meat bombs on the Academy. The C-130 passed me then turned across my course so I was really glad to know he had me in sight as relayed by ATC. It was fun to watch him acquire me since he had to raise a wing to do it. I considered them to be a good crew because they did take the time to look and didn't just blow off the traffic call for the spam can 500' above them and maybe a mile or two away.

Anyway ATC may be responsible for separation in some situations but they are going home at the end of the shift, you are the one at risk.
 
flyingron said:
No, NEGATIVE CONTACT means you not have the traffic in sight. PERIOD. ATC may continue to issue further updates for the same traffic or not. You don't see the word "LOOKING" in the AIM, Controller's handbook, or PCG.
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I do the same as you Ron, I look and if I don't have the traffic immediately (they did tell you where it was at), then Negative contact without "Looking", "have it on the fish finder" or anything else.

Sam D said:
Back to the OP, maybe ask your CFI why stop at "negative contact" fib? For the best ATC services, declare an emergency! :)
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I was glad I wasn't drinking a soda when I read your message Sam, or besides the screen getting hit, it'd have been coming out my nose:eek::D
 
"Traffic in sight"
"That traffic is NOT the traffic you are looking for"
"Crap"
 
Okay, so I talked with my instructor about this today and got things cleared up.

His response was (paraphrasing) "when in Class B make sure you are 100% sure that the traffic you are seeing is the traffic ATC is referring to before you say you have it in sight so there is no confusion."

He couldn't see the traffic, and given that I announced so quickly is why he overturned (overruled??) my call.

He went on to say that he didn't mean that I should never report traffic when I see it, but to be extra careful in the busy airspace.
 
korben88 said:
Okay, so I talked with my instructor about this today and got things cleared up.

His response was (paraphrasing) "when in Class B make sure you are 100% sure that the traffic you are seeing is the traffic ATC is referring to before you say you have it in sight so there is no confusion."

He couldn't see the traffic, and given that I announced so quickly is why he overturned (overruled??) my call.

He went on to say that he didn't mean that I should never report traffic when I see it, but to be extra careful in the busy airspace.
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Makes sense now. He didn't ask you to lie. It's very easy to mistake the traffic when you're in a busy airspace.


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korben88 said:
Correct Makg. This was in SLCs bravo, when we went down to Provo I identified and announced other traffic.

I think what he was ultimately trying to say (I will clarify when I see him next) is that in Class B airspace it's eaiser (better?) to just worry about flying instead of searching out traffic. I was on a straight in final, and I think he just wanted me to not spend a ton of time looking for the traffic.

I may be wrong, and again will have him explain in more detail next lesson.
Click to expand...

Well, it's true that it's more important that you keep your airplane right side up and headed towards the general vicinity of the runway's approach end than it is to search out and identify another airplane that's about to touch down, but it's also a good idea to be as aware as possible about the other aircraft in your vicinity regardless of the alphabetic class of the airspace you're in.

In any case if his point was that you should ignore ATC's point out and inform them you're doing so by calling "negative contact" (or some nonstandard wording to the same effect) just because you don't want the "responsibility" to pay attention to aircraft ahead of you I'd say he's very wrong. What if that airplane's only a short distance ahead of you and going considerably slower than you? Or it's a heavy airplane making a wake you should remain above and beyond of during your approach an touchdown?

OTOH if you were having trouble controlling the airplane and truly didn't have the mental bandwidth to spot the traffic (clearly not the case in your OP) then I'd see no problem calling "negative traffic" without taking much of a look. But as a SOP in Class B (or any other airspace) this sounds like a bad idea to me.
 
My instructor said this same exact thing, however he meant it in a way that if you don't see the traffic, don't feel pressured to say you do! That just creates a dangerous situation where ATC loosens up and your situational awareness is lowered. If you see it, say it! And vice versa. :)
 
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