Tower communication question

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freekboy

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freekboy
Hey guys, hoping you can help me. For some reason I'm terrified of tower and am working on my fear by forcing myself to do more tower communication. I'm getting better, but still have a way to go. Originally I would freeze with fear. Now I can at least think. I still have a lot of doubt thought :(


Anyhow, I initially called to tower inform them I was 8m to the north/northwest @3500 ft with information echo - good! I was told to report when I was 5m out, runway 5, call on downwind (pretty certain about this last part to call on downwind). He had told others to go direct in, but traffic picked up since I came in sight.

There was a lot of chatter on the line so I did get my words in that I was 5m out, but I didn't hear back from tower confirming.Finally he calls me and asks me to call him back when I'm 3m out and on base. Well, at that point I was already 3m out and was turning on final. I tell him I'm about 3 miles out on final and he doesn't have me in sight (I DID have the right runway) than he finally does. He clears me to land - all is good. Did I do the right thing? What would you have done between not hearing back (tower is addressing other traffic, there was a photographer buzzing around and he was giving them clearance)? Is final only permissible to enter once I'm clear to land (i.e., should I stay on a downwind or base).

Tower was very friendly. No threats of discipline, etc. But I really want to be better than what I am - which means questioning what I do. So tell me, how bad was :)
 
You did fine. Tower controllers understand that you may not be physically able to make all the requested calls on time due to frequency congestion. You just do the best that you can. Good job.
 
Radio communication should only be difficult for a short time and then it becomes second nature. What you did sounds just fine. Get a tour of the tower and meet the people behind the mic. It will help!
 
Welcome to POA.


As an ultra light pilot I had the same fear. The best way to get over the fear is to ask for a tour of the tower and control facilities (use a land line ;) ) Your local EAA chapter can schedule a group tour.

Once I understood the tower guys could care less about enforcement, that keeping planes from "swapping paint" is their main concern in life. I could make their job much easier by complying with instructions, and asking questions if I did not understand the instructions or needed clarification. They are pros and ready to help if asked. Sure they can Gehrig "testy" from time to time. Not worry, I'm sure you do too.
 
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I see that this has already been suggested, but I'll reinforce it:

Next time you fly into a towered airport, stop and phone the tower. Ask if they have the time to let you in for a visit. Then talk to them about what you just told us. You'll get a whole new perspective.
 
I used to have a hard time hitting the transmit button but after awhile you realize that the stupidest thing you've ever said on the radio isn't the worst thing that controller heard that day.

I've noticed that roughly half of the time I get a "call when on a 3 mile base" or similar they call me to clear me to land before I either get there or have a chance to edge in.
 
yeah, I'd say that was fine, but you could double check before turning base with them, just a quick "tower, 7BW is turning base" - you could extend the downwind just a bit while waiting. they know you're the final authority on your actions especially with good visuals.
 
As the others have said. You did just fine. You could have repeated your call 5m call and he likely would have given you a response. You can continue in and establish yourself on final if that's what you're cleared to do. You just can't land until cleared to do so. If you're getting close you can always call back with a "confirm 23A cleared to land".
 
You can also check liveatc.net to see if your airport is listed and listen in. It will help.

Then you can dig up some of the busier airports and listen to the airliners and notice that the communication is not that much different. Then listen in on Oshkosh or Sun 'n Fun for really organized chaos. :)
 
Just wait until you hear Tower screw up. It will happen, and probably pretty soon. Makes them seem much more human.

I've been cleared to land while waiting at the hold short line more than once.

FYI, Tower apparently didn't care much, but if you're on 3 mile final for anything other than a straight-in approach or an extended downwind, you're flying B-52 patterns. Might want to tighten that up. There is no need for a light aircraft to fly downwind, base and final all at 3 miles. 1/2 mile will do. It will be much easier for other aircraft to spot you if you're closer to a standard pattern, in addition to the often repeated "what if the engine fails" scenario.
 
MAKG1 said:
FYI, Tower apparently didn't care much, but if you're on 3 mile final for anything other than a straight-in approach or an extended downwind, you're flying B-52 patterns. Might want to tighten that up. There is no need for a light aircraft to fly downwind, base and final all at 3 miles. 1/2 mile will do. It will be much easier for other aircraft to spot you if you're closer to a standard pattern, in addition to the often repeated "what if the engine fails" scenario.
Click to expand...

Yea, I just did that senario yesterday with my CFI. I was doing touch and goes, and on the 6th or 7th one, the CFI dropped the engine to idol at the numbers on the downwind, and said your engine failed (we were going cross wind landing with 8 knots as well).

Got my speed to 70, and turned right to the runway. With the tailwind, I got there fast. dropped my flaps to 30 and was still far higher over the runway they I thought I could land at.

Did a slip, and dropped like a stone. Exited the slip, straightened out, flared, ballooned, recovered, flared again, and landed smoothly on the center line.

Still had plenty of runway to go around and do another landing.

While those exercises are designed to help in the event of an engine failure, it really helps for someone like me who is new, to recognize just how little of a pattern is needed. Not saying I want to land like that every time, but the next landing where I was a half mile out seemed like an eternity.
 
This reminds me of a time when I was a student pilot, one of my first solo's. Tower told me to report 5 nm out, etc. ( I never had this before) My little C152 trainer didn't have a way to show distance and I wasn't ready for this with references on my paper charts!

It was on Oh Sh$% moment.
 
stay scared of talking to them!!!! :D ;)
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from http://www.4vfr.com/?goto=atc_overheard&section=atc

While taxiing at LaGuardia the crew of a US Air flight departing for Ft. Lauderdale made a wrong turn and came nose to nose with a United 727.

The irate female ground controller lashed out at the US Air crew, screaming: "US Air 2771, where are you going? I told you to turn right onto Charlie taxiway! You turned right on Delta! Stop right there. I know it's difficult for you to tell the difference between C's and D's, but get it right!"

Continuing her tirade to the embarrassed crew, she was now shouting hysterically: "God, you've screwed everything up! It'll take forever to sort this out! You stay right there and don't move till I tell you to! You can expect progressive taxi instructions in about half an hour and I want you to go exactly where I tell you, when I tell you, and how I tell you! You got that, US Air 2771?"

"Yes ma'am," the humbled crew responded.

Naturally the ground control frequency went terribly silent after the verbal bashing of US Air 2771. Nobody wanted to engage the irate ground controller in her current state. Tension in every cockpit at LGA was running high.

Then an unknown pilot broke the silence and asked, "Wasn't I married to you once?"
--------------------------------------
 
Badger said:
This reminds me of a time when I was a student pilot, one of my first solo's. Tower told me to report 5 nm out, etc. ( I never had this before) My little C152 trainer didn't have a way to show distance and I wasn't ready for this with references on my paper charts!

It was on Oh Sh$% moment.
Click to expand...

For the OP's (and other student pilot's) benefit, this is actually simple to figure out, especially for towered airports.

1) Used the runway length as a visual measuring stick. If the runway is about 6000 feet, that's close enough to figure distance, to the field, just lay "runways end to end".

2) Towered airports are often Class "D" or better, meaning they have the dashed ring on the sectional. And that ring is often a 4-5 mile radius. Just study the chart to find the appropriate landmark that dashed line covers and use passing the land mark as your calling point.


Radio calls are intimidating for all student pilots at first. But then it becomes second nature. Just remember the mantra of
  • Who you want to talk to
  • Who are you (your call sign aka tail number)
  • Where you are
  • What do you want to do (or what assistance do you need)
  • and What information do you already have.

PS. Welcome to Pilots of America!
 
AggieMike88 said:
1) Used the runway length as a visual measuring stick. If the runway is about 6000 feet, that's close enough to figure distance, to the field, just lay "runways end to end".
Click to expand...

This works great, but make sure you know the actual runway length! 1 mile runways are common, but you'll really hate it if you land on a 2000 foot runway like that. Or you go out to that cool former SAC base and it's more than 2 miles long.

My favorite runway (no I haven't landed on it) is nearly 8 miles long.

The lengths shown on sectionals include displaced thresholds. It's not unheard of for those to be thousands of feet long, generally due to obstructions (not a problem for departures, but they are for arrivals).
 
I found it worthwhile to sit on the outside deck of the airport restaurant with a radio tuned to the tower frequency.
 
When asked to report several miles out, I look for what appears to be several miles, and make the call. If I have DME or some other indication of distance, I'll use that, but most of us know if we're a mile down the road, or several. I know what three miles looks like so I tell them when I'm three miles out.

ATC isn't concerned over whether or not you made the call at the 3.0 mile mark. It's not a contest on whether or not you were precisely over the red barn when you keyed the microphone. They just want to know where you are, for timing, spacing, clearance, other traffic, etc. It's a cooperation issue.

ATC knows that the radio is one-at-a-time communication. ATC knows that if the frequency is busy, you'll call when there's a break. It happens. If you don't get a break and can't call, they'll call you.

Last year I was handed over to ATC approaching Lagos (Nigeria), and couldn't get a word in edgewise until I was south of Nigeria, leaving their airspace. It was congested. Busiest I've ever seen it. Nobody cared. In fact, that I didn't call was probably a boon, because it was already too busy. I think I went nearly three hundred miles like that. Non-stop chatter in several languages, stuck mic's etc.

This summer, I'm doing fire, and we have our own comm requirements. That includes a call entering the fire traffic area at twelve miles, then another at seven. We may, or may not receive acknowledgement. At five miles if we haven't been cleared in, we hold outside, regardless, until we establish communication and get cleared in. It's a safety thing.

No such rule exists with ATC, save for Class B and certain specific airspace. If you're approaching a Class D airport and have been told to report five miles or three, don't sweat if you can't make the call. Keep coming. They know you're on your way. Make the call when you can, and press on.

The suggestion above to visit the tower was a good one. Avail yourself of the opportunity and talk with the controllers. It's always good to put a voice with a face, and you'll find your work with ATC to be a lot less intimidating.
 
Badger said:
This reminds me of a time when I was a student pilot, one of my first solo's. Tower told me to report 5 nm out, etc. ( I never had this before) My little C152 trainer didn't have a way to show distance and I wasn't ready for this with references on my paper charts!

It was on Oh Sh$% moment.
Click to expand...

And you probably know by now that even though Class Deltas are custom sized per airport, the vast majority by far are a five mile radius around the airport.

So in the vast majority of cases, you just look for a landmark that intersects the Delta ring around the airport on the chart and call there. ;)

If you are beyond bored, the Deltas (and lots of other airspace boundaries) are all described in detail in FAA Order 7400.9 :

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/7400.9.pdf

Count how many times you see "5 mile radius" as you scroll. :)

"Report 5 miles" is Tower controller speak for, "tell me when you've entered my airspace". The direct connection is so obvious, most folks miss it. ;)
 
I'm not turning final until I hear "clear to land."
 
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Sounds like you got a great start at flying into a towered airport freekboy.

I learned to fly at uncontrolled airports. Before my checkride I had done only BARELY more than the minimum requirement of landings at a towered airport.

After my checkride I flew into a VERY lightly traveled Class D airport a few times and then I had a family emergency that made it necessary for me to fly into a buisy airport underneath the DFW Bravo and involved flying over another controlled airport also under Bravo. Tango Whiskey knew the area and basically wrote me a script. I studied and thought about it, remembering the old Who you are, Where you are and What you want to do.

That trip went very well and I did it several more times while the family emergency was playing out. I then even got up one morning very early and went directly through the Class B to the same destination.

I now am MUCH more comfortable on the radio, even though I flub it up occasionally.

Just keep working on it and keep thinking about it alot and asking questions of your flying buddies and on this forum. You will be an aviation mic jockey par excelance in no time.
 
Don't worry about it. I was terrified as well at first and messed up terribly. You just get over it.
 
I'm not turning final until I hear "clear to land."
Click to expand...

There are a lot of places where you'll never make it to final, if you do that.

You may be third on final and not cleared to land. It's common to be on final approach without a clearance to land. You may be told to report five miles or three miles, and when you do, simply be told "continue."

Being cleared to land isn't a pre-requisite to being on final, and waiting for that clearance before turning final won't always work.
 
If I'm 50 feet off the ground and haven't been cleared, I'm going around. If it's apparent there is going to be a problem earlier (like some slowpoke on the runway going the full length), I'll go around earlier.

But turning final at 400 AGL without a clearance? Sure, why not? You still have an out. Practice full-flap go-arounds, as Cessna trainers in particular need a LOT of nose-down pressure to keep under control at full flap, when trimmed for landing.
 
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