tow the line ..

txflyer

txflyer

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Fly it like you STOL it ♦
So a light bulb goes off in my head, and I think ... "I have a 180, and I sure would like to get back into soaring."

So the next question is:

How do you STC mod a 180 for towing? Who installs it or where's the kit, how much mool'a is it, and where would I ever get training to learn to tow? Questions questions ... If I could learn to tow, I could offer up my plane for some reciprocal glider time maybe. :idea::dunno:
 
It's a simple latch that goes on your tailwheel spring (on all the ones I've seen, never seen a 180/5 tow though. I wouldn't use my personal plane for it though.

Go on the SSA website and volunteer towing for your local club then decide if its something you want to do and/or do in your 180.

If you choose to have insurance, you might also want to ask what their take is on it, having a guy get high on you as you're on your takeoff roll can be somewhat exciting.
 
Yeah, it would probably be cheaper to just go pay for soaring, but look at the fun. :)
 
As I recall the TCDS shows that the airplane is approved for glider towing. But I don't recall Cessna ever having an approved hook for it. However if the your FSDO is reasonable (they might not be, they usually don't know much about gliders or towing) you should be able to install a tow hook based on AC43 and get a feild approval(337?). Better way to do it is to do a bit of research and find someone that has a Cessna 180/185/188 series that already has a hook installed and duplicate their installation and paperwork.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
brcase said:
As I recall the TCDS shows that the airplane is approved for glider towing. But I don't recall Cessna ever having an approved hook for it. However if the your FSDO is reasonable (they might not be, they usually don't know much about gliders or towing) you should be able to install a tow hook based on AC43 and get a feild approval(337?). Better way to do it is to do a bit of research and find someone that has a Cessna 180/185/188 series that already has a hook installed and duplicate their installation and paperwork.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
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Thanks. I think you're right. No factory tail hooks on any 18x series.

These people sell a kit, but it's not STC'd.

Ol' Ron at our shop doesn't like field approval jobs.... :no:
 
Here's a good intro:

http://www.soaringsafety.org/school/towpilot/

Many soaring clubs are always looking for tow pilots. You can see about joining a club and towing with their airplane. You'll need to get endorsed by another tow pilot. This may be the only time FAA allows a non-CFI to endorse someone.
 
Matthew said:
Here's a good intro:

http://www.soaringsafety.org/school/towpilot/

Many soaring clubs are always looking for tow pilots. You can see about joining a club and towing with their airplane. You'll need to get endorsed by another tow pilot. This may be the only time FAA allows a non-CFI to endorse someone.
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That's a lot of good reading on the subject.

There are two glider ports not far from here with nice turf.

I'll get permission and fly down there one day when I hear something's going on and check it out. :yes:
 
A search on Skywagons.com showed a list of STC's for tow hook parts. Looks like the Soaring Society of American now has the STC. Might check with them.

Brian
 
Matthew said:
Here's a good intro:

http://www.soaringsafety.org/school/towpilot/

Many soaring clubs are always looking for tow pilots. You can see about joining a club and towing with their airplane. You'll need to get endorsed by another tow pilot. This may be the only time FAA allows a non-CFI to endorse someone.
Click to expand...
You'll still need a certified glider instructor 's endorsement that you've received the required ground and flight instruction in safe glider towing practices including airspeeds, the visual signals used, emergency procedures, and maximum bank angles. The current and qualified tow pilot's endorsement is just for the three required glider tows, actual or simulated, that the prospective tow pilot must perform accompanied.
 
If you want to soar drive to the airport and do not admit to having tw time. Otherwise we'll stuff you in a towplane lock the door from the outside and have all the soaring fun while you tow.
 
ClimbnSink said:
If you want to soar drive to the airport and do not admit to having tw time. Otherwise we'll stuff you in a towplane lock the door from the outside and have all the soaring fun while you tow.
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Man, there is some truth to that. :yes::D
 
Witmo said:
You'll still need a certified glider instructor 's endorsement that you've received the required ground and flight instruction in safe glider towing practices including airspeeds, the visual signals used, emergency procedures, and maximum bank angles. The current and qualified tow pilot's endorsement is just for the three required glider tows, actual or simulated, that the prospective tow pilot must perform accompanied.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there is that. Thanks for the clarification.
 
ClimbnSink said:
If you want to soar drive to the airport and do not admit to having tw time. Otherwise we'll stuff you in a towplane lock the door from the outside and have all the soaring fun while you tow.
Click to expand...


I figured there was a catch. I'll keep that in mind.

Thanks for the help everyone. I'll keep looking into it.

I have to wonder what my underwriters will say if I call them up and said "hey, I want to start towing gliders." I have not read my policy to see if that's covered, but I doubt it.
 
txflyer said:
I figured there was a catch. I'll keep that in mind.

Thanks for the help everyone. I'll keep looking into it.

I have to wonder what my underwriters will say if I call them up and said "hey, I want to start towing gliders." I have not read my policy to see if that's covered, but I doubt it.
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I cannot answer with authority, but I would bet your insurance premium would go up exponentially.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
I cannot answer with authority, but I would bet your insurance premium would go up exponentially.
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Commercial tow insurance is not cheap. Might be better to get a rider on the local clubs policy for towing their members only.
 
txflyer said:
That's a lot of good reading on the subject.

There are two glider ports not far from here with nice turf.

I'll get permission and fly down there one day when I hear something's going on and check it out. :yes:
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I've never heard of a glider op not looking for tow pilots. Why do you want to tow in your own plane?
 
Lindberg said:
I've never heard of a glider op not looking for tow pilots. Why do you want to tow in your own plane?
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I would like to get back into soaring, and thought it was a good idea at the time, but in the long run, it'd be cheaper just to go soar and pay for it.

I'm not looking for a job towing sailplanes. Just fun.

Maybe trade off some towing for some glide time... :dunno:
 
txflyer said:
I was not looking for a job towing sailplanes. Just fun.

Maybe trade off some towing for some glide time... :dunno:
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1) I thought it was fun...for a while, then it became work.
2) I think it's pretty common to find that trade off.
 
Matthew said:
1) I thought it was fun...for a while, then it became work.
2) I think it's pretty common to find that trade off.
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The neat thing about volunteering your time and stuff is, you can always quit. :D

Your post made me think of our niece who just graduated ASU and moved to Charlotte for a new job with Bank of America. She was all excited, now two weeks later, she's singing the blues. The cut throat environment of the corporate office world is nothing like college.

Like plane washers. They all start out with grandiose plans, only to throw in the towel after two or three planes because all the grandiose talk doesn't take into account all the sweat that's going to roll down their back. :wink2:
 
It's a challenge. The skill of the glider pilot can make or break the tow - some are very smooth, others jerk that tail around quite a bit. The thing that gets to me most is the the slack/no-slack oscillation that sometimes happens - that gives you a fore and aft feeling that you can't get anywhere else and bugs me, especially at low altitude. The best feeling I get is on release, because then it's just an airplane again. Local traffic, transitioning traffic, other gliders in the pattern, or in a gaggle that your tow wants to join, heat, thermals, long days...it loses its charm after a while.

I keep telling myself that chicks dig tow pilots. :)
 
I can't remember if the tow plane lands with the rope in tow, or if he drops it before landing.

I have about ten hours in a sailplane from years ago. I solo'd, but missed getting endorsed.

It's a blast.
 
Matthew said:
It's a challenge. The skill of the glider pilot can make or break the tow - some are very smooth, others jerk that tail around quite a bit. The thing that gets to me most is the the slack/no-slack oscillation that sometimes happens - that gives you a fore and aft feeling that you can't get anywhere else and bugs me, especially at low altitude. The best feeling I get is on release, because then it's just an airplane again. Local traffic, transitioning traffic, other gliders in the pattern, or in a gaggle that your tow wants to join, heat, thermals, long days...it loses its charm after a while.

I keep telling myself that chicks dig tow pilots. :)
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At our Region 8 contest the chicks were the tow pilots.
Ladies flew the two Pawnee's
Guy's flew the Scout and 182.

For the OP, your best bet is to go work on your glider rating, pretty sure you can tow in the clubs tow planes for trade, but might put the stipulation that you either limit your towing, or wont' tow until you complete your rating. Probably just not a lot of reason why you would need a tow hook on your 180 unless you want to have someone else tow you with it.


Brian
 

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I like to complain about the work/effort. On the plus side - you really do get to hang out and learn from some really good bare-bones stick and rudder pilots.
 
txflyer said:
I can't remember if the tow plane lands with the rope in tow, or if he drops it before landing.

I have about ten hours in a sailplane from years ago. I solo'd, but missed getting endorsed.

It's a blast.
Click to expand...
'

Rope stays with the tug. If you approach over trees, you'll need to allow for that.
 
txflyer said:
I can't remember if the tow plane lands with the rope in tow, or if he drops it before landing.

I have about ten hours in a sailplane from years ago. I solo'd, but missed getting endorsed.

It's a blast.
Click to expand...

Depends on where you are flying, it can be done either way.

Brian
 
txflyer said:
I can't remember if the tow plane lands with the rope in tow, or if he drops it before landing.

I have about ten hours in a sailplane from years ago. I solo'd, but missed getting endorsed.

It's a blast.
Click to expand...
The tow plane normally drops the rope before landing. There does exist a rather pricey reel system which allows the rope to get reeled into the tow plane after the glider releases, but I think they're rare due to the cost. You don't normally land with the rope dragging because it abraids the rope and they aren't cheap.
 
Witmo said:
The tow plane normally drops the rope before landing. There does exist a rather pricey reel system which allows the rope to get reeled into the tow plane after the glider releases, but I think they're rare due to the cost. You don't normally land with the rope dragging because it abraids the rope and they aren't cheap.
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I guess that depends on if you are landing on pavement or grass. We land with the rope in tow.
 
Witmo said:
The tow plane normally drops the rope before landing. There does exist a rather pricey reel system which allows the rope to get reeled into the tow plane after the glider releases, but I think they're rare due to the cost. You don't normally land with the rope dragging because it abraids the rope and they aren't cheap.
Click to expand...

The club I tow for has the retractable rope which is nice. But if it's out of service for some reason (rare) we land with the rope and just make sure we approach high over the road at the approach end of the runway.
 
If there was an affordable STC'd kit for skywagon's, I might have tried it.

It would have been fun to fly down to a glideport after I'm trained, offer up some tows and beg for some soaring log time. Oh well, the best laid plans ...

I know darn well if I ask Ron "hey, would you help me install a tail hook on a form 337" He will say "no F'n way." :(
 
Greg Bockelman said:
I guess that depends on if you are landing on pavement or grass. We land with the rope in tow.
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Everywhere I've flown gliders flew off of grass, and always landed with the rope in tow. And, unless it was breezy they also landed downwind.
 
txflyer said:
If there was an affordable STC'd kit for skywagon's, I might have tried it.

It would have been fun to fly down to a glideport after I'm trained, offer up some tows and beg for some soaring log time. Oh well, the best laid plans ...

I know darn well if I ask Ron "hey, would you help me install a tail hook on a form 337" He will say "no F'n way." :(
Click to expand...
Around here you could do that in the club planes. You fly tows for tows. No need to use your own plane. I think at a lot of places it's easier to lay hands on a tow plane than a tow pilot.
 
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