Tool questions

cleared4theoption

Pre-takeoff checklist
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May 6, 2010
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Flowery Branch, GA
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Jeremy
For my school I start in August I have a tool list I am working on. One of the things is a 1/2" drive, 7/8" magentic "Champion" socket. I assume that is for spark plugs. I found an actual "Champion Socket" for sale....for 60$
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Does it have to be that one...or would any 1/2" drive 7/8" magnetic spark plug socket do?

Also...the list says I am supposed to get a set of Open-ended Offset Wrenches...
From what I can tell, there are two types of wrenches considered "Offset" One is the kind where if you look at it "from the side" each end is offset in the opposite direction...I cannot for the life of me find any like that with open ends...the other is the kind where if you lay the wrench flat it has a "clocked" head that is turned to a specific angle...those I have seen in open ended...but man are they pricey...
Any idea which one they might be talking about?
 
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I use a Snap On deep 7/8 socket on a 3/8" drive fine tooth flex head long handle ratchet with a big plastic handle.

Offset in reference to open ended wrenches is the angle of the opening in comparison to the shaft. Snap On has a set of 30/60* offset wrenches that I consider indispensable. A short set of combos and a long set of combos as well.

Go to pawn shops and such and stock up on various wrenches and sockets in 7/16, 1/2, 9/16, and 3/4s. These are the tools I find I have to 'modify' most for an application that won't take a standard tool. When I see 'funny' wrenches and sockets in these sizes cheap I pick them up just to have.
 
I use a Snap On deep 7/8 socket on a 3/8" drive fine tooth flex head long handle ratchet with a big plastic handle.

Offset in reference to open ended wrenches is the angle of the opening in comparison to the shaft. Snap On has a set of 30/60* offset wrenches that I consider indispensable. A short set of combos and a long set of combos as well.

Go to pawn shops and such and stock up on various wrenches and sockets in 7/16, 1/2, 9/16, and 3/4s. These are the tools I find I have to 'modify' most for an application that won't take a standard tool. When I see 'funny' wrenches and sockets in these sizes cheap I pick them up just to have.
Something like this??

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAP...&item=190681527094&lgeo=1&vectorid=229466
 

Yep, I will warn on tool quality though, they don't all fit the same. Snap On has a patented 'Flank Drive' opening that contacts the fasteners much nearer the center of the flat and will remove 'rounded off' fasteners where every other brand will spin. Also with open end wrenches you have issues with cheap wrenches that the opening will spread on cheap wrenches, either that to they are so massive like the new Craftsman stuff that you can't work them in the space allowed.

Call your local Snap On tool guy and talk to him. They finance and buy back tools and trade as well. A lot of times they will have a used set available at deep discount. Quality tools for someone who is looking to WORK with those tools is is the best money you will ever spend in a career as a mechanic. It's hard to fathom the amount of time and money poor quality tools cost, not to mention skin and blood.
 
Watch the pawn shops, lots of mechanics out of work now and selling tools on E-bay and Craig's list.

vintage crap-on tools 60-70 vintage best.
 
Pawn shops and rich neighborhoods where the wife puts the toolbox out in the driveway before the divorce. Seriously. Great tools to be had there. :)

I'm very disappointed with new Craftsman stuff. Sears killed quality for profits, which they won't have when everyone stops buying.

The tool section these days is usually just us lookie-loo husbands while the wife is picking up something else, at our local store.

They had a decent price on tires on sale, and the bays were quiet, so I let 'em change the tires the last time... and they have a battery load tester, and parts for the lawnmower and gas trimmer... otherwise, I don't go there much anymore for tools.

Lately it's been "use grandpa's old stuff" that actually works... or go get a $3 piece of crap from Harbor Frieght, use it three times and throw it away...

But that's not going to work for a professional mechanic, I realize.
 
Well...these tools are for school...don't get me wrong, I don't want them to be crappola...but I was also advised that once I actually get a job and find out what specific tools I will be using on a regular basis, then is the time to invest in good stuff...for now, I think getting something mid-grade that isn't just aweful is the plan.
 
Well...these tools are for school...don't get me wrong, I don't want them to be crappola...but I was also advised that once I actually get a job and find out what specific tools I will be using on a regular basis, then is the time to invest in good stuff...for now, I think getting something mid-grade that isn't just aweful is the plan.

No problem with good industrial tools, but I've found I can get Snap Ons for the same or less by just watching pawn shops and talking to Snap On drivers about used or student discounts. I guess if I was looking today I'd add Craigslist to my search as well. There really are no 'mid grade/price' tools anymore, even Proto and Cornwell are as expensive expensive as Snap On. Nowadays you either pay good money for tools or get crap.
 
Henning's point above is a good one. Talk to the Snap-On dealer about a student discount. Try to work up a package of what you need and make a deal. Often the dealer will carry you on truck credit for no interest and you can take your time paying it off. Don't waste your time with crap.
 
There are several rules in our shop that are more like "guidelines". But there is one that is inviolate - "No China-made tools!"
 
Don't buy cheap tools. Don't even justify it by saying it's for school. Stick with good tools. You're far better off having less tools that are high quality, than more that are cheap.

Snap-on tools are good, but not what they once were. MAC tools are also good; both expensive. You'll do very well with Craftsman tools to start, and I definitely wouldn't waste your time on an expensive designer box. Waterloo makes several different manufacturers boxes, and you'll do as well with the Craftsman brand as any. I highly recommend a box that's got ball bearing drawers.

1/4" drive will be your primary socket selection. Get some decent ratcheting screw drivers. The palm rachets from Snap-on are good. Do your shopping on ebay and pawnshops first. You'll need either an 8 oz or 16 oz ball peen hammer; the deadblow ones from snap-on, sealed and made from heavy duty fiberglass/plastic are expensive, but the heads don't separate, and you'll be using those 20 years form now. Any cheaper won't last.

Get a decent voltmeter. Again, craftsman makes good ones, as does Fluke. I've been using craftsman ones for over 20 years, and they've always stayed in calibration.

Don't skimp on a rivet gun if you get one. Same for a torque wrench. A speed handle is a must.

My policy for many years was to keep buying off the trucks; mostly Snap-on and Mac, and to pay off each tool or several tools before getting something else.

I have an open-end offset wrench group from MAC. I think it was a little over seven hundred dollars by the time I was done paying it off, one wrench at a time; it took a year. I've used them very extensively, and they're excellent choices for hydraulic work, especially in tight quarters. The value of the different offsets on the open end shows up when you need to move a B nut in a narrow space, and can't turn the nut a full flat. You have to keep swapping ends of the wrench sometimes to make it work, and when you need that kind of a wrench, nothing else will do.

Another tool which is nearly invaluable are knipex smooth-jaw adjustable pliers. These can be opened and closed to fit any set of flats on soft hydraulic fittings. I carry several sizes and have used them a LOT.

A set of stubby wrenches is a must, as is a set of ignition wrenches. The small wrenches come in handy a lot more often than you might think.

Get a good quality wire stripper, and a racketing crimper. Forget the hardware-store style crimpers that simply squeeze terminal ends are wrong; you need something that properly crimps and that does it the same every time.

Buy a good set of safety wire pliers. A reversible set is invaluable, and I especially like the 6" kind rather than a full length set; they fit into tighter spaces much better.

Invest in some good socket trees. My favorites come from craftsman. They make some plastic bars with spring-loaded balls in them that can be tailored to any set of sockets or socket attachments, in 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2". You can cut them to length for any kind of set up you wish. I have several dozen of them in my box. They never wear out, you can get extra attachments and fittings; they're great.

One problem I've had over the years with Snap-On in particular is that more often than not when I've taken a tool back to the truck, they've tried telling me it's no longer made, and can't offer me a replacement. Just the value toward something else. I've never had that problem at Sears, but I've had to return a lot more tools to the Snap-On truck over the years than Sears. In fact, just last year I had a shattered inspection mirror that sears replaced free, even after I told them I stepped on it and broke the mirror. No questions asked.

I've had several Snap-on screw drivers and rachet handles seize up on me; the truck wanted me to trade them in against something new and pay the difference. In each case I've taken them apart and found that the factory grease has simply congealed and turned to a thick glue-like substance. Cleaning them, repacking the with grease, and putting them back in the box fixed the problem, where Snap-On would not.

Decent lights are worth their weight in gold.

Racheting, reversible box-end wrenches have been all the rage for a number of years now, and for good reason. They really increase productivity and cut down on wear and tear on your wrists.

A good screw driver set (not a cheap one) is a must. Supplement it with racketing screw drivers. Snap-on makes the best ones, I think. Varying length screw drivers are a big plus, too.

Be sure that you have both 12 and 6 point sockets in your 1/4" set. A set of 1/4" flex sockets in 12 point are a big help, too. I've used them a lot. They're especially useful inside turbine engines.
 
There are several rules in our shop that are more like "guidelines". But there is one that is inviolate - "No China-made tools!"

Actually I've found having a set or two of cheap wrenches is good. The cheaper they are the softer the steel tends to be. Soft wrenches bend into custom shapes well.

You will also find there are times when a snap on will fit when a craftsman won't, and vice versa. It's amazing how much the slight dimensional differences between brands can have an affect.

Oh and gear wrenches
 
Actually I've found having a set or two of cheap wrenches is good. The cheaper they are the softer the steel tends to be. Soft wrenches bend into custom shapes well.

They do have their place, but you have to expect it ahead of time.

The last incident I witnessed was a guy trying to cut a pretty hard piece of coiled wire. I don't know how hard it was, but I'd compare it to a wire coat hangar. He used his cheap wire cutter and now he has a cheap wire stripper. The wire was harder than the cutter and left two perfect half-circle grooves.
 
There are several rules in our shop that are more like "guidelines". But there is one that is inviolate - "No China-made tools!"

Check this page out, snapon is made in China

http://askville.amazon.com/Snap-tools-make/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=2470040


According to http://www.hindu.com/2005/07/12/stories/2005071205881800.htm, Snap-On has manufacturing facilities in the US, Europe and China as of 2005.

In 2004, they closed two factories, one in Kenosha and one in Mount Carmel, Ill., according to "Snap-on to close two tool factories, cutting 560 jobs"
The Macon Telegraph ^ | Tuesday, July 22, 2003 | The Associated Press

Snap-On also sells tools from other companies such as Sioux Tools, Monogram,
Apex, Grobet, Ernst Manufacturing, and ATI (which still makes some tools in California).
 
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Check this page out, snapon is made in China

http://askville.amazon.com/Snap-tools-make/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=2470040


According to http://www.hindu.com/2005/07/12/stories/2005071205881800.htm, Snap-On has manufacturing facilities in the US, Europe and China as of 2005.

In 2004, they closed two factories, one in Kenosha and one in Mount Carmel, Ill., according to "Snap-on to close two tool factories, cutting 560 jobs"
The Macon Telegraph ^ | Tuesday, July 22, 2003 | The Associated Press

Snap-On also sells tools from other companies such as Sioux Tools, Monogram,
Apex, Grobet, Ernst Manufacturing, and ATI (which still makes some tools in California).

I just texted my Snap-On dealer about this. He asked if the Matco guy told me that... Ha Ha. Anyway, he said they are a global company and make tools all over the world. However, all the core products including boxes are still made in the USA. BTW- Don't be afraid to try those Knipex pliers they started selling, made in germany and nice.
 
Check this page out, snapon is made in China

http://askville.amazon.com/Snap-tools-make/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=2470040


According to http://www.hindu.com/2005/07/12/stories/2005071205881800.htm, Snap-On has manufacturing facilities in the US, Europe and China as of 2005.

In 2004, they closed two factories, one in Kenosha and one in Mount Carmel, Ill., according to "Snap-on to close two tool factories, cutting 560 jobs"
The Macon Telegraph ^ | Tuesday, July 22, 2003 | The Associated Press

Snap-On also sells tools from other companies such as Sioux Tools, Monogram,
Apex, Grobet, Ernst Manufacturing, and ATI (which still makes some tools in California).


They also make tools for other manufacturers as well, it really is a mess these days, same as all other manufacturing anymore.

The main reason I stay with Snap-On is the service really. The ability to rock up in a new city or country and know that I can get all the tools I need to start working on credit and make payments directly to the truck that shows up every week or when I call and say "I need a tool/replacement tool" it comes to work while I'm working on something else making money instead of spending money and losing time getting a tool. The quality, fit & finish of their tools has never disappointed me and I have exchanged a torque multiplier that had a 20-645EMD engine dropped on it, no issue.

It's their business model and service they have given me which has bought my business for 35 years now.
 
I just texted my Snap-On dealer about this. He asked if the Matco guy told me that... Ha Ha. Anyway, he said they are a global company and make tools all over the world. However, all the core products including boxes are still made in the USA. BTW- Don't be afraid to try those Knipex pliers they started selling, made in germany and nice.

Hope you noted I made my response to the statement they did not use tools made in China.

I love Snapon, When we retooled the 400 division at Work, I spent well over $100k at snapon. setting up work stations to do the rebuild of the T-56 engine.

And got the hat. :)
 
For my school I start in August I have a tool list I am working on. One of the things is a 1/2" drive, 7/8" magentic "Champion" socket.

Take an old plug in with you, there are some 7/8" sockets out there that are not 'deep enough' and will not allow an av spark plug enough depth to engage.

I don't like any magnetic tools (except for the magnetic pickup tool). They will pickup fod and either transfer it to places you don't want it, or will magnetize the hardware, so it can pick up its own fod. (Would anyone trust a magnet to not drop a 25$ spark plug anyway??)
 
Also...the list says I am supposed to get a set of Open-ended Offset Wrenches...

I think they mean this, but it would be smartest to ask the teach what he really means. I doubt they would be asking you to get crowsfeet or cylinder base wrenches at this point.
 

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I have had the Champion plug socket (3/8" drive) for 30 years. I also picked up the Snap-on aviation socket when it first came out. I hated it and gave it away to someone. The steel plug retainer clip was a big pain. I bought some new Champion sockets for my younger mechanics a few years ago and was very disappointed that the had a 1/2" drive.

If you are buying angle wrenches, choose the Snap-on wrenches only. I have had the Mac and Matco wrenches a number of years ago, I hated them, the Matco wrenches were to bulky and the Mac wrenches spread apart.
 
Check this page out, snapon is made in China

http://askville.amazon.com/Snap-tools-make/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=2470040


According to http://www.hindu.com/2005/07/12/stories/2005071205881800.htm, Snap-On has manufacturing facilities in the US, Europe and China as of 2005.

In 2004, they closed two factories, one in Kenosha and one in Mount Carmel, Ill., according to "Snap-on to close two tool factories, cutting 560 jobs"
The Macon Telegraph ^ | Tuesday, July 22, 2003 | The Associated Press

Snap-On also sells tools from other companies such as Sioux Tools, Monogram,
Apex, Grobet, Ernst Manufacturing, and ATI (which still makes some tools in California).

Many of the guys in my shop have had their tools for 20-40 years. Back when tools were still made in the US.
 
My MAC offset open end set has been heavily used, and has never "spread apart."

The chrome flaked on one of the wrenches a little after it got ground under the wheel of a P2V one night, but otherwise, no worse for wear.
 
Hello Jeremy,

Did you get your socket yet? I dug up an extra Champion socket (1/2 drive)in my box. I've got to clean it up some day.
PM me with an address if you want it. All I ask is give GA a chance and buy me a beer at a POA get-together someday to cover my shipping.

General aviation has been very good to me.
 
Hello Jeremy,

Did you get your socket yet? I dug up an extra Champion socket (1/2 drive)in my box. I've got to clean it up some day.
PM me with an address if you want it. All I ask is give GA a chance and buy me a beer at a POA get-together someday to cover my shipping.

General aviation has been very good to me.

PM sent...and I would love to work GA...I'm not too picky. It just seems that a good GA gig is hard to find.
 
I got your PM, it will be in the mail. The A&P schools seem to steer most graduates to the air carriers and the manufacturers. I donated a PA46 engine to a local A&P school and got a chance to throw a pitch in to the students picking the engine up. They still haven't gotten it running yet. These local schools and Spartan (my beloved school) wont hardly even call you back about hiring graduates. I find it hard to believe that they have all been picked up. I also got no response to taking on paid summer interns.

I have loved every day of my work in aviation, I couldn't imagine having done anything else. Maybe, the day that a Meridian engine was trashed by my shop wasn't the best.
 
General aviation tends to provide a much wider range of experiences for a burgeoning mechanic. Airline work tends to be very specialized; you work on seats, for example, and spend the next few years installing only seats. This isn't always the case, but one doesn't tend to get a well rounded exposure in an airline operation, especially not over the short term.

The nice thing about working in general aviation is that there are a lot of places in need of mechanics, and one can go almost anywhere in the country to find work.
 
I got your PM, it will be in the mail. The A&P schools seem to steer most graduates to the air carriers and the manufacturers. I donated a PA46 engine to a local A&P school and got a chance to throw a pitch in to the students picking the engine up. They still haven't gotten it running yet. These local schools and Spartan (my beloved school) wont hardly even call you back about hiring graduates. I find it hard to believe that they have all been picked up. I also got no response to taking on paid summer interns.

I have loved every day of my work in aviation, I couldn't imagine having done anything else. Maybe, the day that a Meridian engine was trashed by my shop wasn't the best.

That was one nice thing about my school, one of the now retired instructor owns his own GA shop. Another was a lead mechanic for a 121 op, we got a peak at both sides of the fence.
 
General aviation tends to provide a much wider range of experiences for a burgeoning mechanic. Airline work tends to be very specialized; you work on seats, for example, and spend the next few years installing only seats. This isn't always the case, but one doesn't tend to get a well rounded exposure in an airline operation, especially not over the short term.

The nice thing about working in general aviation is that there are a lot of places in need of mechanics, and one can go almost anywhere in the country to find work.

Indeed you have to be a jack of all trades. This week I was fixing fuel leaks, troubleshooting alternators, painting wing tips, teaching students how to start a vapor locked engine(summer is here!) advising owners on rigging and avionics tuning an engine...

And it was a slow week!
 
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