To continue or not

[drafttek]

I've been thinking lately, and that's never good. Basically, why am I working towards an instrument rating? Do I want to fly in IMC? No. I haven't been in actual yet. Is it enjoyable? I dunno. Challenging? Sure. Fun? Probably not. An IR was just the next step up the ladder. I'm just having a hard time staying motivated for this. Even if I got the rating, would I stay current? Probably not. Maybe I should just stick to VFR x/c stuff. Low and slow. Heck, my favorite plane to ogle right now is this one. Not exactly the dream ride of a hard IMC pilot. Does VFR only make me less of a pilot? To some probably. Anyone else been in this same quandary? How did you stay motivated for something you're not 100% sold on?

 

[SkyHog]

I have bounced back and forth on this myself, draft, and I've come to the following conclusions:

Some people will tell you without the IR you are not safe.
Some people will tell you that with the IR you are not safe.

So its a personal choice. Some claim it will teach you how to handle an airplane more proficiently. Could be true, but in time, you'd get the same expertise flying VFR...

Personally, I see nothing wrong with low and slow VFR flight only, without the IR. And I think thats fine, day or night.

 

[EdFred]

Scenario #1
800' OVC at your field. Layer is 1000' to 2000' feet thick. This blanket covers a couple thousand square miles. With an IR, you get on top, cancel and go VFR over the top to your destination 350nm away which is clear.

Scenario#2
You are returning home and it's the same thing. You fly VFR the whole way, air file 20 minutes from your home drome, and pick up your clearance to shoot an easy approach to your home drome.

Scenario#3
Same conditions 800 at both destinations, but the tops are only 4500 MSL. Get on top, stay filed and come back down. It's really simple stuff, even a private pilot could *probably* climb or descend through a 1000'-2500' thick layer, but it's not legal, and it's not safe. With the IR you don't have to worry *as much* with situations like this.

None of these situations are hard IFR, but both of these situations keep you grounded VFR. This is *really* what the IR is good for. It allows to you spend 5-10 minutes in the soup and safely get through it. Really that's what I use my IR for. That and already being in the system if you need to get into or under a class B shelf.

 

[NC Pilot]

The instrument rating is one of those things that will sharpen your piloting skills and reduce your insurance costs. Also, if you really want to use your plane and need to fly, the instrument ticket is really necessary to get greater utlization of the plane. Especially in areas where there is less than 361.5 days of sunshine.

 

[Bill]

Basically, why am I working towards an instrument rating? Do I want to fly in IMC? No. How did you stay motivated for something you're not 100% sold on?

To thyne own self be true, if you don't think you will fly in IMC, and you won't stay current, and you're not enjoying the challenge, why beat your head against the wall?

Maybe you should take the time and money you're spending on IR and try something else, maybe aerobatics or SES?

 

[AirBaker]

Ya know, and there are some of us that have a hard time staying 'actual IFR' current just cuz there isn't enough bad weather around.

I have to make myself go fly in the soup when it's around just to remind myself what it is like.

If you're not going to make a serious commitment to an IFR rating, I'd probably leave it behind. I completely agree that the rating will make you a better pilot, but it is a commitment.

 

[Skip Miller]

I have come at this same question from a slightly different angle. I logged just under 30 hours last year. What kept me from logging more? Time. I just don't have the time for more.

To pursue an IR, I would be dedicating my entire flying time budget to training. Not bad in its own right, but I want to do other things with the plane. For example, my wife is totally supportive of my flying, but I don't want flying to mean Skip is away, I'm here at home doing the same old same old. I've got to pick the VFR weather and go somewhere like Cape Cod or Nantucket with her. It is fun for her and for me.

So no IR for me, at least not yet. I can't afford the time. When I retire, I expect that I will then have the time. The IR will be early on my list of things to do. My wife? She will not retire for several years after I do. So the long term plan looks good.

-Skip

 

[MauleSkinner]

If you're not interested, don't do it (of course, if you've got 39.5 hours of instrument instruction, and your instructor says the last half hour is just a formality before you go for the checkride, now is not the time to give it up. )

Hone your VFR skills. Hone your understanding of the weather. VFR cross-countries are still a fairly practical option, and the better your ability to pinpoint your location and get the airplane to your next pinpoint location, the safer you are when the weather starts to deteriorate.

Personally, I've owned my VFR Maule for nearly 14 years, and flown at least one 1000-plus mile round trip each year (some years it was a 40-hour round trip). I've been stuck for weather, but only once would I have flown IFR had my Maule been so equipped. But then, my VFR mins are a little lower than Ed's, but likely due to the amount of training and practice in the specific techniques and knowlege required. And my single-engine IFR mins are a little higher than some, likely due to personal paranoia.

And someday, you may find yourself bouncing along under a layer of summertime cu's, hitting your head on the ceiling on a regular basis, and decide that maybe the instrument ticket is a good idea. THAT is the time to do it.

Fly safe!

David

 

[Ken Ibold]

If you're going to use an airplane to travel, an IR is very helpful. If you fly in an area with lots of wacky airspace, an IR is useful. If you fly for pancakes and the occasional fair-weather trip to visit friends, and can handle occasional weather delays, don't bother.

I flew a lot of instrument for years, and then took up aerobatic airplanes for five years. When I got back into traveling airplanes, it hit me like a ton of bricks how quickly the instrument skills atrophy. And at that point you may be worse off than without an IR because you'd turn around and land rather than be tempted to press on with stagnant skills.

 

[tonycondon]

if i didnt have a job that kept me IFR current, I wouldnt be able to stay current on my own dime.

 

[RotaryWingBob]

That's a real good question. I faced that a long time ago, and decided that I had no real interest in single pilot IFR. Plus, it wasn't part of what I saw as my mission. As I refined my mission, airplanes dropped out of it, and I quit flying them because I like helicopters better.

Having said that, YOU need to define your mission, and then decide...

 

[ApacheBob]

I know some very good IFR private pilots that are scared to death to fly in actual conditions. I do not know why they ever fly IFR.
Meanwhile, when I flew the Apache from Denver back to Chicago, I would not have been able to do it without the IFR ticket. It was solid IFR for the first 200 miles. There was some light chop. There was one time when the rain came down pretty hard and it took full throttle to maintain altitude.
I flew back at 11,000 almost the entire trip. I had a whale of a tailwind (50-60 knots?).
When I got back on the ground, I felt good. I still feel good about that trip.
I know that I could improve my IFR skills. But I have confidence. I find the effort demanding but satisfying.
Why else would you do it?

ApacheBob

 

[gismo]

I flew for several years before completing my IR training. It came down to wanting to keep reasonably close to a schedule with an airplane as a means of transportation. Of course, once you get the IR you learn that weather can be a bigger concern as you now get to fly in it.

 

[SCCutler]

I agree with the notion that the skills you gain with the IFR rating are legitimately valuable. And I also agree that, if you will never use it, you shouldn't bother.

I'm not terribly interested in flying hard IMC all the time, but my first real IMC flight ended in an approach to 400', and it worked just like John & Martha King promised it would. So I guess it works pretty well.

Mostly, what Ed described above is the game- the ability to not be paralyzed by marginal, but not catastrophic, weather. That, and the definite benefit of being IFR in busy airspace.

I'll tell you this much- I feel much safer climbing through a couple of thousand feet of clouds and flying on top than squeezing it into the narrow band of hazy mist under the clouds in marginal conditions. No two ways about it.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I'll tell you this much- I feel much safer climbing through a couple of thousand feet of clouds and flying on top than squeezing it into the narrow band of hazy mist under the clouds in marginal conditions. No two ways about it.

Not to mention, being able to punch through that layer means you'll have a nice smoooooooooth flight on top while all the VFR guys are bumpin' around underneath (which leads to unhappy pax, especially bad if said pax include a spouse...)

The IR will make you a more precise pilot, and it's definitely a challenge, but I think the greatest reward I've gotten from it (aside from the obvious added utility of the pilot certificate) is some of the sights I've been able to see. There's nothing like flying on top of an undercast when there's a big, bright full moon out, or just on top of a layer on a sunny day, seeing your airplane's shadow on the cloud layer surrounded by a rainbow (aka a "glory"), or simply enjoying a beautiful sunny day when all the ground pounders (and VFR pilots too) are having a crappy gray day.

 

[JasonCT]

Those are some great pics Kent!

 

[Bill]

and the definite benefit of being IFR in busy airspace.

That was a big factor for me, I pretty much file anytime I fly outside of my local class C radar coverage area. I LOVE being in the system.

 

[CJones]

I personally did the IR because I like to 'go places' when flying. I tried to do 300-400nm VFR trips and got stranded out overnight SEVERAL times. The trip that really hit home was when I flew to STL with a group of other planes and two of the planes had IR pilots and two of us were VFR only. The two IR pilots filed and got home about 11pm that night. Us scud-runners were forced to spend a night in FBO recliners and got home eventually the next afternoon.

My work schedule is such that IF I get a chance to fly somewhere, it's very hard to allow for the standard "VFR add 2 days" to the trip time. While I still might get stranded with the IR due to ice, VERY low ceilings, storm lines, etc., it's much less likely than when I was VFR only.

With that said, if you're only planning on tooling around the area with random puddle-jump trips, the the IR isn't for you. It is a lot of work and requires a large time demand to stay proficient AFTER getting the rating. It doesn't make you less of a pilot to NOT have the IR, but having the rating usually makes people more precise fliers. If it doesn't fit your mission profile for the type of flying you plan on doing in the long-run, then spend the money on something else like a Garmin 3/496, seaplane rating, etc. etc.

....and that's all I got ta' say about thaaaat...

 

[ScottM]

More pics you get when instrument rated

 

[drafttek]

Thanks for all the responses. It's good to get other perspectives on this.

Maybe I just haven't "matured" enough as a flyer. I haven't done any real cross country trips. Just wherever I can get to in a three hour or so window of rental time. I don't "have" to fly anywhere. It would be different if I had my own plane I'm sure. All my available time and money right now is going for lessons. Maybe it is time to "redefine my mission". While I do enjoy the lessons I'm having trouble with the cost/benefit thing. Will I ever actually need it? Not with the type of flying I'm doing now. It may be better spent building up some real x/c time.

All my training has thus far been done with foggles. I think I would like to actually fly in cloud before I decide for certain.

 

[KennyFlys]

Get the IR. To quote Wilford Brimley, "It's the right thing to do."

Even if you have no desire to fly in IMC, it will make you a safer, more precise pilot. It may well help you out of a bad situation. But if you do it, remain proficient. Forget currency. That's only a legal requirement. Proficiency is what keeps you safe.

 

[poadeleted20]

Basically, why am I working towards an instrument rating? Do I want to fly in IMC? No. I haven't been in actual yet. Is it enjoyable? I dunno. Challenging? Sure. Fun? Probably not. An IR was just the next step up the ladder.

The instrument rating is a means of expanding the utility of your flying as a means of travel. The fact is that without an IR, planning a trip by air is at best a 50/50 proposition to get to your destination and return again as planned. An IR improves your chances to more like 90/10 (although never 100%). If that's something you want to be able to you, the IR is a virtual necessity. If not, it's merely a luxury, and not worth much in the way of pain, agony, and cash.

I'm just having a hard time staying motivated for this. Even if I got the rating, would I stay current? Probably not. Maybe I should just stick to VFR x/c stuff. Low and slow...Does VFR only make me less of a pilot? To some probably.

I know many VFR-only pilots. They fly strictly for fun and don't care about using flying as a means of transportation. Those who are good VFR pilots, maintain proficiency, and work at the skills they use have my unqualified respect.

Anyone else been in this same quandary? How did you stay motivated for something you're not 100% sold on?

You have to decide if the return is worth the effort, and clearly you have doubts about that. In that case, I'd suggest suspending your IR training for a few months and seeing if you regret the decision. If you do, pick it up again. If not, stick with what you enjoy and don't look back. Spend your IR training money on something that fits better with what you enjoy, like an aerobatic or tailwheel course.

 

[deafsound]

When I was doing my instrument training, I was also frustrated and sinking most of my cash into paying for lessons. Something that helped me thru that was taking a week or so off from the lessons and just going flying for fun with no destination, compass turns, VOR tracking etc. I just had some fun with the airplane. It helped me remember that I love to fly. It made going back to the training a little easier. I got thru it eventually and I feel like I'm a better pilot as a result. I still won't fly if it's LIFR, but it's nice to be able to go if the wx is sc1500 or OC3000 or skc with 2 miles of vis. I'm still too chicken to fly an approach down to mins, but that's ok, I don't have to do that. But if it were life and death and I had to do it to be on the ground in one piece, at least I know how to fly an approach well enough to survive.

 

[AirBaker]

I know many VFR-only pilots. They fly strictly for fun and don't care about using flying as a means of transportation. Those who are good VFR pilots, maintain proficiency, and work at the skills they use have my unqualified respect.

IMHO, the IR isn't about fog, weather, clearances, etc. It's a dedication to precision flying. Folks with their IR have been tested against this, and (at least at that point in time) were given a gold star.

You can be a VFR only pilot, with the same mentality, and be one heck of a pilot.

 

[Everskyward]

Do I want to fly in IMC? No. I haven't been in actual yet. Is it enjoyable? I dunno. Challenging? Sure. Fun? Probably not. An IR was just the next step up the ladder.

But it isn't a ladder, is it? It's more like the Garden of Forking Paths. If it's not interesting or in some way rewarding to you, you probably need to reconsider. You're flying for fun and enjoyment, right? There are lots of other things you could learn instead, tailwheel, acro, seaplane, gliders, etc. They will all make you a better pilot, just in a different way than the IR. Of course it would be nice to be good at everything but that is not possible.

 

[jesse]

IMHO, the IR isn't about fog, weather, clearances, etc. It's a dedication to precision flying. Folks with their IR have been tested against this, and (at least at that point in time) were given a gold star.

You can be a VFR only pilot, with the same mentality, and be one heck of a pilot.

Precision flying by instruments. Not real useful to a guy buzzing around in a J3 with no instruments.

 

[poadeleted20]

IMHO, the IR isn't about fog, weather, clearances, etc. It's a dedication to precision flying.

It's more than that. Yes, you have to make precision flying a priority to get the IR, but you do not have to do IR training to learn and practice precision flying.

You can be a VFR only pilot, with the same mentality, and be one heck of a pilot.

Exactly. So if you have no need for an IR, spend the money on becoming a more precise VFR pilot rather than on IR training.

 

[jdwatson]

I truly enjoyed the work involved to earn my IR. It's a struggle for me to stay current and a greater one to stay proficient.

As much as I love instrument flying it pains me to say, if you know you'll never stay current and proficient then save your cash and enjoy the time in the air. I've never regretted time in the air... with me behind the yoke.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Those are some great pics Kent!

Thanks Jay! But honestly, they don't do justice to the beauty of the real thing.

More pics you get when instrument rated

Hey Scott, I thought that second pic looked familiar!

If you look very very closely, there are two F-16's in a very very loose formation (several hundred feet apart probably). I took that pic at 12,500 feet on the way to Gaston's in '05. "Skylane 271G, traffic 2 o'clock and 2 miles, (12:30 and 1/2 mile by the time he finished saying it), flight of two F-16's eastbound at your altitude..." I already had my camera out or I'd have never gotten the two shots that I did.

 

[JasonCT]

Does it get any better than that

What a nice looking bird, but put some pants on the thing!

 

[MauleSkinner]

Does it get any better than that

Speaking of nice looking airplanes, is that Big Red in your avatar?

 

[JasonCT]

Not sure, I know its a vintage beech Staggerwing - just liked the shot coming off the runway like that.

 

[drafttek]

Went for another lesson yesterday. I needed a good flight and this was it. Clear and calm, no wind. I flew 3 near perfect ILS approaches, two good VORs, and a good GPS. It restored my enthusiasm for this. I hadn't flown in a month and my instructor was very impressed with my flying. She said I am very precise. This was my second time flying approaches with her and she said she was impressed the first time we flew approaches as well. Just the ego massage I needed I guess. Just why is it that after a couple hours flying IFR I forget how to land?! Ugh.

 

[ScottM]

Thanks Jay! But honestly, they don't do justice to the beauty of the real thing.



Hey Scott, I thought that second pic looked familiar!

If you look very very closely, there are two F-16's in a very very loose formation (several hundred feet apart probably). I took that pic at 12,500 feet on the way to Gaston's in '05. "Skylane 271G, traffic 2 o'clock and 2 miles, (12:30 and 1/2 mile by the time he finished saying it), flight of two F-16's eastbound at your altitude..." I already had my camera out or I'd have never gotten the two shots that I did.

I could not remember where I downloaded that one from. The other one is right as I was breaking out after leaving KC city back to 10C