TiVo

[wsuffa]

OK, here's the deal. I don't have a TiVo. I have never really felt like paying the monthly fees - not to buy the unit - for as little as I watch TV. And I never cared for them knowing what I was watching.

However, TiVo currently has a deal where you get a "free" Series II unit (or $30 for the dual-tuner version) if you sign up for one year of service at $14.95/month. The dual-tuner version supposedly doesn't work with over-the-air TV (I have satellite and over-the-air for HDTV, I do NOT have cable).

Is this a deal worth doing? Can the dual-tuner box be hacked to get over-the-air use? Is TiVo really worth having? Again, not a heavy TV watcher, currently use recordable DVD for anythine I want to save.

 

[jason]

The standard tivo won't do HD content. If you're a fan of HD, then you're probably better off seeing what your DISH provider can offer.

For most people, I would suggest teaming up with your content provider. They charge the same monthlies as Tivo but don't require initial purchase or a contract. The interface isn't as good, but it gets the job done.


I built my own DVR and have no monthly fees. The start up cost was steeper (for a decent computer plus 4 tuners) but I'm much happier with the end product.

 

[ScottM]

For most people, I would suggest teaming up with your content provider. They charge the same monthlies as Tivo but don't require initial purchase or a contract. The interface isn't as good, but it gets the job done.

I have DirectTV now and they gave me a dual tuner DVR and the service for free with the package I have.

 

[SCCutler]

The standard tivo won't do HD content. If you're a fan of HD, then you're probably better off seeing what your DISH provider can offer.

For most people, I would suggest teaming up with your content provider. They charge the same monthlies as Tivo but don't require initial purchase or a contract. The interface isn't as good, but it gets the job done.


I built my own DVR and have no monthly fees. The start up cost was steeper (for a decent computer plus 4 tuners) but I'm much happier with the end product.

Great idea.

So, please post the general scope of what you bought / used / assembled, etc., to make it all work. 'cuz I wanna do it too!

Thanks in advance.

 

[SkyHog]

I used to work for TiVo. They told me in training that "TiVo will change the way you watch TV, and may even chance the way you experience life."

I laughed, saying it was impossible.

When I quit, I noticed really quickly how much I relied on TiVo.

 

[jason]

Great idea.

So, please post the general scope of what you bought / used / assembled, etc., to make it all work. 'cuz I wanna do it too!

Thanks in advance.

I built a standard computer using a Silverstone HTPC (home theatre PC) case, so that it would fit into my home entertainment center. For the TV input, I used two PVR-500 TV tuner cards from Hauppauge. Each card takes up one slot and one coax cable input, but has two separate tuners. So, by adding two cards I have a total of four analog tuners. (I can record up to four programs simultaneously). I also installed a 500 GB hard drive for storage and a DVD burner to read/record DVD media. Last, I added a fanless FX5200 video card with S-video, DVI, and VGA outputs so that I can hook it up to any TV that I buy. This video card is fully capable of displaying HD content all the way up to 1080p.

I then installed linux and MythTV, which is open source (read: free). There is a really good tutorial if you want to use Fedora, another easy method is to use KnoppMyth.

Watch this if you're curious. http://revision3.com/systm/mythtv

There are also some great software packages out there that do the same thing. Microsoft Media Center, SnapStream, and SageTV are all good if you're not comfortable with Linux.

Next I'm going to add an HD tuner card so that I can record HD content. This is in preparation for my next purchase (my wife gave me the go ahead on the purchase of a new HD TV).

Here are some of my favorite things about my current solution.

• I record all of my TV on the one computer in my basement and can watch it on the other TVs in my house. I just run a network cable to another computer that is hooked up to that TV. I can build those computers for around $250/each. I can start watching a show upstairs, if I need to stop it bookmarks where I was and I can finish watching it in the basement.
• It plays DVDs just like a DVD player (one less thing next to the TV).
• One button commercial skip. We were in the bar last night and a TV was on. My wife nudged me and pointed to a commercial and said "what's that?".
• It provides everything that I need to rip my DVDs to the server, then I can watch them from any TV all by pulling up a menu of my movies.
• It can archive off anything that I record to DVD using MythArchive. I've had neighbors that have missed a show and I just burn them a copy that they can play in their DVD player.
• The setup is not nearly as cheap to put together, but once you build everything it's 100% free to keep.
• It has a web based front-end that I can use to manage all recordings. My wife logs on with her laptop and sets her own recording schedules.
• Simple stuff, like the ability to separate her shows from my shows in the listings so that I don't have to sort through 20 instances of Oprah to get to Lost.

Getting it all finished is not for the faint of heart. I love to tinker on this stuff, so I had fun. Now that it's working, I can't imagine going back to just a plain old DVR.

One tip: buy the quietest components you can buy. There is a ton of information out there on this topic, and for good reason. I took the cheap way out the first time and ended up buying new stuff. It's amazing what a few decibels can sound like when you're sitting in a quiet room.

 

[wbarnhill]

One tip: buy the quietest components you can buy. There is a ton of information out there on this topic, and for good reason. I took the cheap way out the first time and ended up buying new stuff. It's amazing what a few decibels can sound like when you're sitting in a quiet room.

Hahahaha.. Excellent point My Shuttle PC is becoming a FreeVo after I build my new system. The only downside is I'll have to change it from a gaming/server rig to something a little more... suitable... for living room use.

Reason? I popped one of these in place of the stock fan: http://www.vantecusa.com/p_td_8038h.html

Fan Speed: 5700 RPM
Air Flow: 84.1 CFM
Noise: 55.2 dB(A)

Plus the extra tweaks (AS5 as my thermal compound on both the CPU and GPU), my system runs as cool as any aircooled system can, but some people can't deal with the "noise". Personally I find it soothing...

 

[woodstock]

I'm not a TV watcher - literally a week will go by before I will notice I hadn't even turned it on once... (and I have a big wide screen even - nope).

However I couldn't do without Tivo. I have 2.5 years worth of movies saved up (that I do occasionally watch) and used to Tivo the Daily Show and at least catch up with that once in a while. You can hit pause and go answer the phone or you can just walk away and as long as you aren't gone longer than an hour you won't miss anything (the recording loops at an hour - if you are not coming back just record it).

 

[SkyHog]

FlyNE: Do you use a remote of some sort to control your PVR? I am seriously considering this (when I'm not broke anymore).

 

[Greebo]

The standard tivo won't do HD content. If you're a fan of HD, then you're probably better off seeing what your DISH provider can offer.

But this depends first on whether Bill has an HD tv, or an HD tuner that connects to the TV.

If the arrangement is HD antenna -> HD tuner -> TV then check to see if TiVo can control the HD Tuner - if it can then the arrangement will change to Antenna -> Tuner -> TiVo -> TV

 

[SkyHog]

TiVo Series 3 is a dual tuner HD box, that WILL control the digital cable without using an IR Blaster. It uses cable cards, which means you lose interactive program guide (replaced by TiVo), and OnDemand (if you are in a market that has it), but its doable.

They're also ungodly expensive...

 

[ausrere]

Great idea.

So, please post the general scope of what you bought / used / assembled, etc., to make it all work. 'cuz I wanna do it too!

Thanks in advance.

I haven't done this yet, but I plan too. Check out http://www.byopvr.com/ . Be prepared for lots of reading, but it looks like a lot of good info on building your own PVR.

 

[Jeff Oslick]

I have a DirecTV HD Tivo unit. Since I was with DirecTV for over a year when I got it, the unit was only $200 with a new 2-yr service commitment. It will record 20 hours of HD programming or 200 hrs of standard programming. The main limitiation is I haven't found a way to check the memory status. Tivo service is only $6/mo through DirecTV. In major metro areas, including where I'm at near LA, the service includes a satellite feed of the major local channels in HD, and many local channels in standard format. The one bummer is the local PBS broadcasts in HD and I don't get that since it's too much of a pain to set up an HD antenna for just a couple channels.

Jeff

 

[MSmith]

I have a DirecTV HD Tivo unit. Since I was with DirecTV for over a year when I got it, the unit was only $200 with a new 2-yr service commitment. It will record 20 hours of HD programming or 200 hrs of standard programming. The main limitiation is I haven't found a way to check the memory status. Tivo service is only $6/mo through DirecTV. In major metro areas, including where I'm at near LA, the service includes a satellite feed of the major local channels in HD, and many local channels in standard format. The one bummer is the local PBS broadcasts in HD and I don't get that since it's too much of a pain to set up an HD antenna for just a couple channels.

Jeff

I have the DirecTV HD Tivo as well, but I paid $1000 for it when it first came out.

Tivo completely changes the way that you watch TV. No more having to be home when the program is on, and no more missing something because you can't be.

The only problem that I have is that DirecTV is going to phase out their Tivo boxes for HD in a few years when they switch compression methods. The new box is from News Corp (FOX - they own DirecTV) and it's missing some features of Tivo that I like. That will probably drive me to the Tivo Series 3 and Verizon FIOS when it becomes available (in about 6 months, supposedly).

 

[mikea]

The standard tivo won't do HD content. If you're a fan of HD, then you're probably better off seeing what your DISH provider can offer.
...

Au contraire. The new series 3 TiVo does record HD from over the air and/or cable using using two cableCARDs. It's a *mere* $799 though, plus the monthly fees. Lifetime owners like me can can get lifetime for $299 more. I'm probably gonna go for it.

And where you are wrong is that any DVR is the same thing as a TiVo. Absolutely not. The UI on the other offerings is always a joke. TiVo wasn't twiddling thumbs for the 2-3 years they spent figuring out how it should work.

Jann has the Comcast Motorola HD 6212 and one of my more poor relatives ordered a TiVo from DirecTV and got Rupert's "it's the same thing" DVR. They're both so bad it's almost criminal. Jann occassionally SCREAMS at the Motorola compared to my ancient Series 1 TiVo she has in the bedroom. A co-worker got the Dish DVR and told me how to record you just set a channel and time. How about if you just say, "Record Studio 60" and get it whenever wherever it's on and has something you haven't seen?

TiVo has patents on some aspects like the timeline, variable speed skip with backspace, and suggestions that nobody else can do without a license and the others are too stubborn and arrogant to get the license. Witness that Dish just lost the lawsuit after they told TiVo to take a hike and then used some of their proprietary stuff.

The original is the best. It's just too bad that various forces have made it hard for them to have a business model that allowes the thing to be reasonably priced. A lot of supposed partnerships have fallen through. DirecTV just couldn't stand giving TiVo one whole dolalr a month - even though they got that great deal when TiVo desparatley needed cash.

 

[jason]

FlyNE: Do you use a remote of some sort to control your PVR? I am seriously considering this (when I'm not broke anymore).

Oh yeah, I guess I forgot about that part. For remote reception you buy an IR receiver. Then, you can use any universal remote that you like. First, you find one with the buttons you want (in a layout you like). Second, you "record" the buttons into linux. Then you set them to do the things that you want them to.

For instance, my remote has a button labeled "Input". I have it change the tuners while I'm in 'Live TV' mode so that I can test input on all four tuners without setting four things to record.

The remote that I found was $18 at Wal-Mart.

 

[jason]

Au contraire. The new series 3 TiVo does record HD from over the air and/or cable using using two cableCARDs. It's a *mere* $799 though, plus the monthly fees. Lifetime owners like me can can get lifetime for $299 more. I'm probably gonna go for it.

Hence the word "standard" in my sentence. He asked about the free one that they were giving away with a contract. Which isn't a Series 3 and doesn't do HD.

And where you are wrong is that any DVR is the same thing as a TiVo. Absolutely not. The UI on the other offerings is always a joke. TiVo wasn't twiddling thumbs for the 2-3 years they spent figuring out how it should work.

Hence me saying "the interface isn't as good". Most of my friends don't care about interface or features. They want to pause live TV and schedule things to record. The offerings from the providers do these things. Not as well as Tivo, but they do them. My post was simply a way of suggesting that there is a cheaper (less contractual) mething of seeing if DVR was right for him before committing to a vendor. Let him move up to a (monthly contract (and even an $800 purchase) if he finds that he loves having a DVR.

Do you think I built my own from scratch and I don't know a good interface from a bad one?

A co-worker got the Dish DVR and told me how to record you just set a channel and time. How about if you just say, "Record Studio 60" and get it whenever wherever it's on and has something you haven't seen?

I haven't seen a DVR in the last 3 years that is this rudimentary. Are you sure she knew what she was doing? I went through two revisions with Time Warner including the first one that was ever offered by them and never saw it only record channels and times.

 

[wsuffa]

But this depends first on whether Bill has an HD tv, or an HD tuner that connects to the TV.

If the arrangement is HD antenna -> HD tuner -> TV then check to see if TiVo can control the HD Tuner - if it can then the arrangement will change to Antenna -> Tuner -> TiVo -> TV

HD TV, HD tuner (off air).

Dish network, NON-HD. I don't even have the dual-fed antenna....

I like the idea of building one... will have to price componants (have spare computer CPU & hard drive, hopefully a 1 GHz processer will handle things OK).

And yeah, I'd really like it to handle HD.

Avoiding monthly fees is good.

 

[jason]

HD TV, HD tuner (off air).

Dish network, NON-HD. I don't even have the dual-fed antenna....

I like the idea of building one... will have to price componants (have spare computer CPU & hard drive, hopefully a 1 GHz processer will handle things OK).

And yeah, I'd really like it to handle HD.

Avoiding monthly fees is good.

A 1 GHz is enough for standard def analog. You'll need more for HD. I would start with at least 120 GB of storage. My current settings produce files that are about 1.7 GB per hour of recording. HD content is about 5-7 GB per hour.

 

[rmciottijr]

FlyNE

I might look in to this I don't know much about Linux but I will look in to it. This could of saved me last week I did not set the VCR up to record ER so I was in the DOG HOUSE. I am not sure how the Windows version works but I can assume; Its windows. Did you happen to record ER this week?

Bob

 

[jason]

FlyNE

I might look in to this I don't know much about Linux but I will look in to it. This could of saved me last week I did not set the VCR up to record ER so I was in the DOG HOUSE. I am not sure how the Windows version works but I can assume; Its windows. Did you happen to record ER this week?

Bob

Actually, I did (well, the wife did). I could run you a copy. Though, it may be faster for you to grab it off of bittorrent.

 

[Skip Miller]

- for as little as I watch TV.

That's the crux of it, Bill. If you had TiVo, would you watch more (after the novelty wore off?) I am finding that it is taking me longer and longer to watch the NetFlix selections... and those are allegedly things I want to see. (some of them are admittedly chick flicks that my wife slipped in the queue)

-Skip

 

[wsuffa]

That's the crux of it, Bill. If you had TiVo, would you watch more (after the novelty wore off?) I am finding that it is taking me longer and longer to watch the NetFlix selections... and those are allegedly things I want to see. (some of them are admittedly chick flicks that my wife slipped in the queue)

-Skip

Exactly. That's why I don't want to put much money into it, at all.

It would be nice when certain programs are on against each other (like Mythbusters against a playoff game, or Anthony Bordain against the news), but I'm just not a big TV watcher.

 

[jason]

Exactly. That's why I don't want to put much money into it, at all.

It would be nice when certain programs are on against each other (like Mythbusters against a playoff game, or Anthony Bordain against the news), but I'm just not a big TV watcher.

The thing with having a DVR is that when you do sit down to watch TV, you will always have something there that you want to watch.

The wife and I just save up a ton of TV so that we always have something there.

 

[Dave Siciliano]

Bill:

I was an avid TIVO user until I got tired of dealing with the Box user when it didn't work. Called TIVO, they referred to Humanix--can you say HOLD. My time was just worth too much to keep sitting on hold waiting for some non-techie to read a decision tree to me---Uh, is the unit plugged in.

I loved time shifting. Taped the nightly news and could watch it any time. Taped great stuff I didn't have time to see during the week and sometimes watched it later. Blasted through all the commercials. In the end, after dropping it, I don't miss it a lot.

Get the news on the web; there are few normal TV programs I really miss;
and things like college football, which I really like to watch, I didn't want to see recorded.

TV is the biggest time killer in the world; I don't have a lot of time to kill.


Best,

Dave

 

[Jeff Oslick]

The only problem that I have is that DirecTV is going to phase out their Tivo boxes for HD in a few years when they switch compression methods. The new box is from News Corp (FOX - they own DirecTV) and it's missing some features of Tivo that I like.

In another year or so (when my service obligation to DirecTV is over) I'll probably be switching to Time Warner Cable. My area used to be Adelphia, who I don't have enough unkind words for, but recently was bought up by TW Cable. I had good service from TW Cable here in SoCal in a neighboring area for 5 years, so I'd like to go back to them, and their local offerings are better than DirecTV's (but at a higher price, admittedly).

Jeff

 

[mikea]

In another year or so (when my service obligation to DirecTV is over) I'll probably be switching to Time Warner Cable. My area used to be Adelphia, who I don't have enough unkind words for, but recently was bought up by TW Cable. I had good service from TW Cable here in SoCal in a neighboring area for 5 years, so I'd like to go back to them, and their local offerings are better than DirecTV's (but at a higher price, admittedly).

Jeff

I'll also be dumping my DirecTivos in the next year or two, especially when Rupert's DirecTV stops TiVo or MPEG2 support.

In spite of my inclinations It looks now like I'll be forced to go to Comcast and CableCARDs in a Series 3 TiVo. I might just decide that Over-the-Air HD only is enough.

 

[Greebo]

I'm not happy that DTV wants to push TiVo users away. If they drop support, I'll probably just buy a new standalone box and control the DTV thru it. I have a standalone tivo upstairs and I'm not giving it up just cause DTV dropped their contract.

Hmm actually I'll need 2 DTV tuners then, one for each TiVo tuner...

Or I could go back to Comcast I suppose... *shudder*

 

[PoAdeleted5]

deleted

 

[jason]

My HD Tivo was my 3rd Tivo.

I'll drop DirecTV if they drop Tivo support and swap in some brainless VCR box with hard drives in it. I don't want a VCR where you set time and channel, I want Tivo, where you tell it what shows you want.

I don't have all that much time to watch TV, so using the Tivo lets me watch what I want when I want. My wife loves it two, we have one in the TV room and one in the bedroom.

And now that Tivo has decided to raise their rates. I'm still happy that my solution remains free.