Tis Better to be Dead than Fired...

steingar said:
Again, most gun deaths are suicides. Even Scott agrees with me. Is there anyone on this board not in law enforcement or the military who has ever had to so much as unholster a weapon?
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Yes. I've had to use deadly force or the threat of deadly force to protect myself.

As a young man, I drove my dad to work at his non-union coal mine while the UMWA was trying to "organize" there, by means both fair and foul. I unholstered and pointed a handgun at a man who was advancing on us with a engineer's hammer (small sledgehammer), intent on harming us or our vehicle. He backed away and his comrades calmed him down. We were left alone on all trips thereafter.

In college in Boston, I was attacked one night by two thieves, both with knives. Being Boston, I was of course unarmed. After handing over my wallet, one of them decided he was going to cut me for fun. The resulting fight ended up with me being cut and him being dead at my hand and his partner eventually getting charged with murder, since someone died in the commission of a felony. I was interrogated for several hours and for a while I was afraid I was going to be arrested and charged even though I had defended myself. The surviving thief ended up pleading to several felonies, including some form of homicide and went off to jail. In this case if I'd had a weapon I am convinced that nobody would have died.

I realize that my experiences are not typical. But the rights and privileges granted to a person should never be based on "typical", "average", or "general" thinking - if we did that we'd never be allowed to fly, let alone do fringe flying like aerobatics.

Oh. Just to stir the pot, I believe that suicide is every person's individual right, and the only constraints I would put on it would be that society should not pay for the care and maintenance of failed suicides (so please get it right), and that a suicide should take appropriate care to not endanger the lives of others while ending his own life.
 
steingar said:
I'm going to be the fly in the ointment here. My employer has a policy of no weapons in the work place, concealed or otherwise. This is their right, since its private property and I don't belong to a militia. If I really don't like it I can get another job. However, if I really felt so insecure that I thought a firearm was needed, I'd get a new job. I don't like war zones. Pizza hut has a right to their policy, and you guys have a a right to noisily boycott their products because of it.

I won't eat at Pizza hut either, but only because their pizzas make me sick.
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Perhaps you missed the all too important fact that this guy WAS A DELIVERY DRIVER. Pizza Hut has every right to not allow guns on their property, but he was driving his own personal car on a delivery, doing a job that is inherintly dangerous to begin with (at least in ABQ, when I did it, it was).

I'm writing a letter. I hope this guy sues Pizza Hut. I'm pretty sure they cannot legally stop you from protecting yourself
 
I understand Pizza Hut's issues - they are worried that they could be held liable if one of their employees is carrying a weapon and hurts somebody else. Their lawyers and statisticians probably tell them (and are probably right to do so) that there is less liability risk if one of their employees gets attacked on the job (they have insurance and the federal workers comp programs) than if one of their employees injures someone with a gun (they don't have insurance beyond their general liability coverage for that). Wonder what happens if the employee hits someone with the car? I'd expect that the employee is covered by the Company insurance, as opposed to his own insurance.

So - If I were Pizza hut, I'd probably do the same thing. If enough people were worried about their safety they wouldn't do that kind of work and Pizza hut would have to either revise their policy, or cease delivery service in the area.

As a potential employee, I would never take a job that puts me in a situation where there's a reasonable chance I might be exposed to dangers and both refuses to protect me and also forbids me to protect myself against those dangers.
 
TMetzinger said:
I understand Pizza Hut's issues - they are worried that they could be held liable if one of their employees is carrying a weapon and hurts somebody else. Their lawyers and statisticians probably tell them (and are probably right to do so) that there is less liability risk if one of their employees gets attacked on the job (they have insurance and the federal workers comp programs) than if one of their employees injures someone with a gun (they don't have insurance beyond their general liability coverage for that). Wonder what happens if the employee hits someone with the car? I'd expect that the employee is covered by the Company insurance, as opposed to his own insurance.

So - If I were Pizza hut, I'd probably do the same thing. If enough people were worried about their safety they wouldn't do that kind of work and Pizza hut would have to either revise their policy, or cease delivery service in the area.

As a potential employee, I would never take a job that puts me in a situation where there's a reasonable chance I might be exposed to dangers and both refuses to protect me and also forbids me to protect myself against those dangers.
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Valid point but I'm guessing Pizza Hut counts on not being sued when their employee is killed while making a delivery. I hope the kid wins this thing.

I'm with Nick on the weapon in your own private vehicle.
 
SkyHog said:
I'm writing a letter. I hope this guy sues Pizza Hut. I'm pretty sure they cannot legally stop you from protecting yourself
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I'm pretty sure they can stop you from protecting yourself with a firearm that you were carrying in violation of their company policy.

The employer has a right to direct your work, period. They have a right to make you wear a big bunny suit with floppy ears, they have a right to tell you to come to work at 1am, they have a right to dictate that you not wear blue jeans and they have the right to make you leave your heat somewhere else besides the workplace.

If you drove pizza delivery (like I did back in the day) then you know that your argument is specious. They control every aspect of your delivery work including your driving behavior, how you dress, whether you put a stupid-looking sign on your roof or not...even to tell you to keep your music volume down to something reasonable.

You have a right to 1. quit, or 2. be fired. Welcome to America.
 
steingar said:
Again, most gun deaths are suicides. Even Scott agrees with me. Is there anyone on this board not in law enforcement or the military who has ever had to so much as unholster a weapon?
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Yes. You only get your apartment shot at so many times before you learn that they are all trying to kill you, whether they know it or not.

BTW - most accidents in airplanes are Pilot Error. Eliminate the airplane, and you've eliminated pilot error.
 
SkyHog said:
Yes. You only get your apartment shot at so many times before you learn that they are all trying to kill you, whether they know it or not.

BTW - most accidents in airplanes are Pilot Error. Eliminate the airplane, and you've eliminated pilot error.
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Naw give the pilot a gun to shoot themselves. ;););););)

[/sarcasm]
 
steingar said:
Again, most gun deaths are suicides. Even Scott agrees with me. Is there anyone on this board not in law enforcement or the military who has ever had to so much as unholster a weapon?
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Once. And that was one more time than I had hoped for...but it worked, without having to pull the trigger.
 
SkyHog said:
BTW - most accidents in airplanes are Pilot Error. Eliminate the airplane, and you've eliminated pilot error.
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I thought pregnant flight attendants were pilot error? Pretty sure an airplane doesn't have to be present for that...
 
smigaldi said:
I do not think there are enough stats to make any conclusion yet. CCW is fairly new and limited even in states that allow it.
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Actually, common CCW laws started over 20 years ago, and now 48 states have some sort of CCW law. The CATO Institute has a dated study (1997) that argues that the "blood in the streets" fear of concealed carry has not occurred, and will not occur for a variety of reasons: http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=1143&full=1

Blood Will Run in the Streets
The most powerful rhetorical argument that is generally made by those who oppose shall-issue licensing laws is that permitting law-abiding citizens to carry handguns outside their homes will transform the streets of America into "Dodge City." The "blood will run in the streets," it is claimed, as law-abiding citizens take to settling disputes and answering slights to their dignity by shooting it out. The argument is asserted over and over again despite the fact that it has most decidedly not been borne out by 10 years of experience in 25 states with permit holders' carrying firearms for defense. Nevertheless, there will, in all probability, be a clear and egregious case of a permit holder misusing his firearm sometime in the future. And because the climate surrounding gun issues is so highly charged, a well-publicized tragedy could obliterate all prior experience with concealed-carry permits--at least in the minds of politicians who favor gun control.
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Wow, what hair-raising gun stories! I must lead a really sheltered life. Ah well, my luck I guess. Actually, its probably just my philosophical cowardice.
 
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