Tired of cocky CFIs

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So im a commercial MEL pilot, never got my CFI, spend 1000hrs flying in Alaska. Now i fly charter with a company that also does flight instruction. I flew with one of our CFIs the other day and he was terrible. Lesson to CFIs out there. Just because you have an instructors rating and know the "regs" (Which i know too) does not mean your gods gift to the world.

I think its funny that CFIs think their such hot ****, when really they arent the ones flying 90% of the time.

I coach soccer and i can tell you right now the guys i'm coaching are 10x better players than I am, simply because they actually play everyday.

Time to grow up CFIs
 
Agreed. They have no idea what they don't know.
 
Haha. We might believe you are a better pilot then your CFI coworkers, if you had any confidence.
 
My favorite CFIs around here are about the most laid back guys you will find. Their style is so mild that you are learning something without realizing you are getting training...

Great guys to have a beer with as well.

Both are great stick and rudder folks as well. One younger than I and the other is older. Both will pretty much let me do things with the airplane that would make me nervous if I was in the right seat with a dumb dumb like me. But they know when to get excited and I'll hear "my airplane" and then some instruction.

Anyway, I've bumped into the young, dumb and [edit] CFIs too. But I was in the ARMY so I understand the mindset.. Join them, or ignore them. Just don't get in the clouds with one that believes his own marketing.
 
Unregistered said:
So im a commercial MEL pilot, never got my CFI, spend 1000hrs flying in Alaska. Now i fly charter with a company that also does flight instruction. I flew with one of our CFIs the other day and he was terrible. Lesson to CFIs out there. Just because you have an instructors rating and know the "regs" (Which i know too) does not mean your gods gift to the world.

I think its funny that CFIs think their such hot ****, when really they arent the ones flying 90% of the time.

I coach soccer and i can tell you right now the guys i'm coaching are 10x better players than I am, simply because they actually play everyday.

Time to grow up CFIs
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There's good and bad CFIs, PPLs, CPLs, ATPs etc.

Honestly there are quite a few pilots who think they are gods gift to aviation because they flew in AK.

Quite a few of these aviation legends have smeared themselves, their pax, and pieces of aircraft all over the snow due to **** poor decisions, al la Era/Ravn/Hageland.

Perhaps one could also say, time to grow up AK "legends" :dunno:
 
My first flying job was a VFR 135 gig flying airtours at the Grand Canyon. I had a grand total of just barely 500 hours at the time. By the time I got around to getting my CFI I had an ATP and over 3,000 hours - most of that in 400 Series Twin Cessnas. I thought that somehow I had "dodged a bullet" by being able to go directly into Part 135 flying after I got my commercial and instrument rating. I was wrong. In any teaching situation, it's always the teacher who learns the most. The same thing applies doubly in aviation. Getting your CFI and actively instructing for a while will teach you things about flying that you will only learn through instructing. It is difficult to put that CFI certificate in your pocket. They make it that way intentionally. In my case, I ended up getting my CFI certificates so that I could keep my hand in flying while I went to school full time to finish up my degree. I learned a lot and to this day the lessons are very valuable and useful. Becoming a CFI and teaching for a while, in my opinion, are some of the most important steps you can take in your aviation career.

However, I believe that there is a HUGE difference between 1000 hours of experience and one hour of experience repeated 1000 times. After awhile, flight instructing starts to fall into the "one hour of experience repeated 1000 times" category so at some point, you need to get out of the training environment and into the "real world". Never the less, having several hundred hours or so of dual given cements the basics that you were taught and will form the foundation for your entire professional career. And besides, it's the only practical way for most newbies to get that initial flight time and experience.

When it comes to experience, total hours don't mean squat. It's what you've been doing during those hours that matters. What counts is whether or not you've been "around the block". I don't really know how to explain it, but I can tell in very short order whether or not a guy has been around the block and if so, how many times. Assuming it all hasn't been spent in the right seat giving dual, it takes most guys 3000 or 4000 hours to get "around the block" once or twice. After that the hours just represent years on the job and is a function of the type of flying you happen to be doing.

I've flown with a lot of low total time (less than 3000 hours) guys in jets, most of those were simply more bother than they were worth unless they came to the table with a bunch of single-pilot IFR PIC time. It didn't really matter whether it was single or twin, they just have to know how to fly IFR and how to work the system. They can be taught everything else. In my experience, it takes about 3000 hours of "good" time before they earn their keep – something that many of those eager, young “know it all” CFIs lack.
 
frfly172 said:
Those that can do,those that can't teach.
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I put this phrase in my "never use" list along with "user friendly" and "it's in the mail".

It's the most offensive thing you can say to a K-8 teacher who willingly forgoes a higher paying career because they believe teaching K-8 is the most important job around.

It's the most offensive thing you can say to that retired [Boeing, Lockheed, Raytheon, NASA, whatever] engineer who willingly teaches K-12 to inspire the kids and show them that the world is not owned by the MBAs and the World Bank.

And you insult all the CFIs who do know what they are doing, who are not there just to reach 1500 hour so they can leave.
 
It may not apply to K-12 teachers, but the profs I had in college vs what the real world actually was, it is dead on accurate.
 
EdFred said:
It may not apply to K-12 teachers, but the profs I had in college vs what the real world actually was, it is dead on accurate.
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My broke finance professor taught me how to borrow money because it was "cheaper" to use someone else's money, and not doing so was really "dumb".

He failed to teach me about risk, which I learned very quickly when I tried to implement his ideas...

You can't teach what you don't know and have never experienced!:yes:
 
retailguy said:
My broke finance professor taught me how to borrow money because it was "cheaper" to use someone else's money, and not doing so was really "dumb".

He failed to teach me about risk, which I learned very quickly when I tried to implement his ideas...

You can't teach what you don't know and have never experienced!:yes:
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Unless the finance professor is Warren Buffet, none of them seem to know their ass from a hole in the ground.

You're better off being mentored by a successful entrepreneur.
 
"My" CFI is a CFII, MEL, with over 10k hours and an A&P license with inspection authorization, with over 35 years of airline mechanic experience, many hours working on GA 172s, a part-135 certificate and years flying night cargo.

His main goal in life is to train pilots who will be able to stay alive.

Sorry your CFIs don't measure up.
 
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I've only had one "bad" CFI, and even he wasn't that bad when he was sober.

Rich
 
retailguy said:
My broke finance professor taught me how to borrow money because it was "cheaper" to use someone else's money, and not doing so was really "dumb".

He failed to teach me about risk, which I learned very quickly when I tried to implement his ideas...

You can't teach what you don't know and have never experienced!:yes:
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My 37 year old cousin (yes, I'm putting his business out in the street -shame on him) is constantly blabbing out relationship advice. Worse still he does this in the company of other men who are in marital and/or long-term relationships.

No woman worth anything wants a man whose credit score is in the toilet and still lives with his mother and mid-20's brother in a 2 BDRM apartment in a high-traffic area of the city.

FWIW, I've been trying to get him to move out of his mother's house since he was around 22. The more I tried, the harder he stuck to the idea.
 
RJM62 said:
I've only had one "bad" CFI, and even he wasn't that bad when he was sober.

Rich
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I had a straight aszhole for most of my IA training. It was clear he was just doing time till he was picked up by a regional carrier. I asked for another trainer but was told they were all booked up and I would have to wait till one student finished a check ride.

Cocky, arrogant, disengaged, burdensome ...... all describe him. I wouldn't **** on him at the scene of a burning wreck.
 
I had only one not good for me instructor. When I started CFI training, the instructor and 3 or 4 other students had our first meeting. He started the conversation by stating, "your flying affects my paycheck so expect to fly often." I told him, "I didn't come here to pad your paycheck, I came here to learn."

He looked at me kind of strangely and continued. The final straw was when he said, "I don't like instructing, I am only doing this because this is what I have to do to get into an airline."

At that point I collected my stuff, got up and said, " I don't want to make you do anything you hate to do, so I am out of here."

I understand that he might have said what he said to try to show the even though he is the instructor, he is still just a regular guy. Maybe my age, I was at least 10 years older, I took it wrong. But as a customer I didn't like what I heard.
 
RJM62 said:
I've only had one "bad" CFI, and even he wasn't that bad when he was sober.

Rich
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Unit74 said:
I had a straight aszhole for most of my IA training. It was clear he was just doing time till he was picked up by a regional carrier. I asked for another trainer but was told they were all booked up and I would have to wait till one student finished a check ride.

Cocky, arrogant, disengaged, burdensome ...... all describe him. I wouldn't **** on him at the scene of a burning wreck.
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My drunken guy wasn't any of those things. Actually, he was a nice old guy. I did wind up firing him, though.

The last straw wasn't the time he almost got us both killed in a near mid-air, nor was it the time before that when he passed out in the front seat of the Cub while I was on base and then put us into a ground loop when the landing woke him up and he was disoriented. The last straw when when he passed out drunk at the FBO Christmas party. Two of us had carried him to the sofa to sleep it off; but about an hour or so later, he staggered back to his airplane while no one was watching and flew back home.

I'm pretty sure he was encouraged to seek other employment after that incident because I don't recall seeing him around the FBO after that. It's too bad, really. When he was sober, he was pretty good.

Rich
 
I have flown with good CFIs and not so good CFIs (20).
I have learned something from each of them.
I found it easier to learn from the good ones.
I have found that often the ones who know the least are the most arrogant.
I feel some may be trying to compensate for their small knowledge with a big stated opinion of themselves.
I have never had a desire to compete with any of them.
I do not blame them for my inability to comprehend.
I feel the good CFIs don’t charge enough and the not so good CFIs charge too much.
 
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Jaybird180 said:
...No woman worth anything wants a man whose credit score is in the toilet...
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Don't tell my girl that, my "credit" is stagnant and unused.

I pay for things outright and don't borrow money from people, if I can't afford it I don't need it.

This has allowed me freedoms that most credit slaves will never have, I also don't understand how spending money you don't have demomstrates fininacial responsibility :goofy:

Now I don't live with my mom, I do have a few a few toys like my float plane, Vette, bike, etc, all of which I don't owe a dime on, I don't have a single credit card.

In my opinion the whole premises is flawed and down right amusing.
 
EdFred said:
It may not apply to K-12 teachers, but the profs I had in college vs what the real world actually was, it is dead on accurate.
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There's a reason for the K-12 specification. I've been one of those college profs, but only after 15+ years in industry. In Computer Science, how can you have any credibility if you've never had to design & deliver a major product?
 
James331 said:
This has allowed me freedoms that most credit slaves will never have, I also don't understand how spending money you don't have demomstrates fininacial responsibility :goofy:
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While I agree with your overall point, there are advantages to credit when money is cheap, as it is right now. Not everyone finances something because they can't afford to pay cash.
 
Vance Breese said:
I have flown with good CFIs and not so good CFIs (20).
I have learned something from each of them.
I found it easier to learn from the good ones.
I have found that often the ones who know the least are the most arrogant.
I feel some may be trying to compensate for their small knowledge with a big stated opinion of themselves.
I have never had a desire to compete with any of them.
I do not blame them for my inability to comprehend.
I feel the good CFIs don’t charge enough and the not so good CFIs charge too much.
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Superb!
 
dmspilot said:
Computer science != software engineering
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I'm not gonna play terminology games. Yes, CS faculty and created & taught the SWE track. There are very few universities with SWE only degrees. One of the first was U of Wash (?) because Barry Boehm was there.
 
kayoh190 said:
While I agree with your overall point, there are advantages to credit when money is cheap, as it is right now. Not everyone finances something because they can't afford to pay cash.
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True. But I would guess that the number of people who actually do this for the "right" reasons is a small fraction of those who describe their actions as such.
 
Sam D said:
True. But I would guess that the number of people who actually do this for the "right" reasons is a small fraction of those who describe their actions as such.
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Exactly. I'm quite done with using credit for anything that can't make me money.
 
murphey said:
I'm not gonna play terminology games. Yes, CS faculty and created & taught the SWE track. There are very few universities with SWE only degrees. One of the first was U of Wash (?) because Barry Boehm was there.
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There is a good reason for that.

There isn't that much to software engineering. I don't see any reason why it can't be taught as a year-long or maybe associates degree level at a community college. There just isn't four years worth of work in there. Not even close, really. Such a program would be boring, and not very useful. Any schmuck who can take a problem apart can write a set of IEEE docs.

Computer engineering (it's not a science), on the other hand, is a much larger field, and requires some work in mathematics, hardware, and algorithms. This is where data structures (including database design), compilers, numerics, and so on come in.
 
My favorite recently passed away. He and another excellent instructor, both high time pilots, ( over ten thousand hours) were very low key and never ordered, but rather suggested. Always looked forward to the bi annual from either one. Usually both would eventually say " may I have it a moment?" And do some really smooth acro or a perfect crosswind landing, etc. great persons. Both were adamant about using the radio a good bit , announcing before entering and while in the pattern flying it close in as possible and quickly as possible. One always remarked "cause it's where your likely to meet an idiot.
 
MAKG1 said:
There is a good reason for that.

There isn't that much to software engineering. I don't see any reason why it can't be taught as a year-long or maybe associates degree level at a community college. There just isn't four years worth of work in there. Not even close, really.

Computer engineering (it's not a science), on the other hand, is a much larger field, and requires some work in mathematics, hardware, and algorithms. This is where data structures (including database design), compilers, numerics, and so on come in.
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There is no way in hell I would hire a "software engineer" that didn't know data structures including relational and the newer non-relational systems.

I do not think there is a snow balls chance in hell you could take the average Joe that doesn't know a single thing about how technology works and expect them to be a software engineer anybody would want to hire after a year of schooling. They'd be an intern doing crap work for hardly any pay.

Granted we hire software engineers with or without a formal education. The education itself carries no value to me what does carry value is if they can do the job, and more importantly, if they can do the job better than I could.

1.) phone interview
2.) quick meeting in person with just me
3.) if I like them, ask them to do a development project that I estimate will take someone 8 hours IF they are good
4.) If that work is work we'd actually want to use then we proceed with another round of interviewing including team members.
5.) Sometimes I'll throw in ANOTHER interview with other members of management to get their sign off before an offer.

It's a very effective process and nothing you put on a resume will predict the outcome of how they do. Whenever I shortcut this process based on the recommendation of how skilled the person was I regret it severely.

The best engineer I have -- amazing at managing himself, four times the output of his peers, always writing damn good software. It just shocks me each time I look at his work. I picked him up in a pile of resumes, looking for an intern to do tedious work, and he was 18 years old. It took about a week before I quit giving him intern work and started giving him the problems that were too hard for our other guys to figure out. He puts in about 30 hours a week for us while going to college full time and still out performs everyone. We'd pay him a senior level software engineer salary right now if he decided he didn't want to continue the formal education.

Granted he didn't get to where he is from school, or from a year of effort, it took a lifetime of interest in technology and sacrifice of other things his peers were doing to get his skill set.
 
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In my opinion, there is no place for this attitude on any sort of teaching or instructional job anywhere....much less aviation. When I teach new guys, I think it is equally important to highlight the mistakes on a flight that you as an instructor made as well as those of the student. In my biz, you are an a hole if you don't show the student your tapes while you are going through theirs. At a minimum, it shows that you are credible, and hopefully and more often than not, it brings up more learning points that otherwise might not have been covered. Being the type that talks down to a student is always ineffective, I don't care how much experience you have. I remember the jerks from flight school, and in hindsight after I have been through the same experiences they had that made them so cocky, they are still jerks. Let your competence do the bragging and be approachable and humble in person or in the brief/flight/debrief. Otherwise your student has long ago stopped listening to you. I think those guys generally got that way because they innately have a bad attitude inherent with an ego problem, and when they were students they were hammered for it, and thus think that is how you treat a student.....without realizing that they were the outliers who did/do/will always have an attitude problem that puts them at odds with society in general
 
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Interesting, being a CFI I never thought of myself as cocky. Then again, I generally do not give training to people I do not know and get along with my friends well.

It seems that many pilots have egos. I suppose this is why this thread started. Cocky CFI upsets cocky "don't tell me anything" bush pilot.

I find that I learn more about flying when I teach someone. I usually find that when I find something they are doing wrong I find 2 more things I usually do wrong.

Just about anyone can fly a plane safely 96% of the time. A good CFI will find the 4% we are all lacking. Probably best we all work together to be better pilots.
 
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