Tips for the IFR student

AggieMike88

AggieMike88

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The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
Sometime in the first half of the year, I hope to get started on IFR training.

Besides being spot on with the knowledge items, and at least a 2-lesson a week routine, what other tips can the gallery provide to ensure a successful experience?
 
Spend as much time in actual IMC as possible.

One day, when there's an ILS that will get you home but a GPS or VOR that won't, do that GPS/VOR approach. See what a real missed approach looks and feels like.

I don't think anyone's been killed from doing a teardrop entry into a holding pattern instead of a parallel, or even been killed from doing crappy holding patterns. Not to say it isn't important, just making a point. Lots of people have been killed from flipping upsidedown in IMC or when screwing up a missed approach or an approach in low IMC.
 
Don't let your CFII rush you into approaches. Get basic aircraft control down pat before you add electronics to the mix.

Bob Gardner
 
Use a CFII who has actually spent significant time in IMC. By the time I had finished my training my CFII had doubled his time in actual. I think he learned as much about the system as I did during my training - he just didn't have the experience dealing with ATC to teach it to me. He was very good with teaching the fundamentals though.
 
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Find an instructor with substantial operational experience who'll train in actual instrument conditions to the max extent practical. Also, an organized, structured syllabus is essential. Finally, make sure your instructor has access to a flight simulation device, as it dramatically improves training efficiency and effectiveness.
 
Ron Levy said:
make sure your instructor has access to a flight simulation device, as it dramatically improves training efficiency and effectiveness.
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I agree on that point in a big way. Fortunately, this I have covered very well. http://www.atrcsim.com/ is a sim facility very close to my location. And cost for all of their sims is very reasonable.
 
AggieMike88 said:
I agree on that point in a big way. Fortunately, this I have covered very well. http://www.atrcsim.com/ is a sim facility very close to my location. And cost for all of their sims is very reasonable.
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OK, but can you bring your own instructor (so there's no conflict between what's being done in the sim and the airplane), and does that instructor know how to integrate sim training into the curriculum? That's the next big question.
 
AggieMike88 said:
Sometime in the first half of the year, I hope to get started on IFR training.

Besides being spot on with the knowledge items, and at least a 2-lesson a week routine, what other tips can the gallery provide to ensure a successful experience?
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I am going to do the same, so I think I am going to PM you often to see what you are doing vs what I am.
My instructor has me using the Jeppesen syllabus. What will you be using?
 
Ron Levy said:
does that instructor know how to integrate sim training into the curriculum? That's the next big question.
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DaytonaLynn said:
My instructor has me using the Jeppesen syllabus. What will you be using?
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No instructor selected as yet. But gaining the points about which syllabus and integration of sim training is why I started this thread.

@DakotaLynn: For the moment, I'm just beginning to dig in to the knowledge portion using the King product, supported by the various FAA Books, Dogan's PIC book, and Bob Gardner's "Complete Advanced Pilot..."
 
Agree with everything above.

For me, more important than anything else be comfortable in flying your plane in VMC. Know your cockpit, know your plane, and do not rush. IMC is not the time to learn that you are not comfortable with your plane.

Have fun. IFR training is challenging, but is fun.

Doug
 
douglas393 said:
Agree with everything above.

For me, more important than anything else be comfortable in flying your plane in VMC. Know your cockpit, know your plane, and do not rush. IMC is not the time to learn that you are not comfortable with your plane.

Have fun. IFR training is challenging, but is fun.

Doug
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This could be a high bar to reach. I can't say I am yet comfortable.

In a previous thread, Cap'n Ron stated that it was about his 5,000th landing that he began to get confident. I'm nowhere near that, and use that idea to help me judge my own competence with a backstop against foolhardy over-confidence.
 
Jaybird180 said:
This could be a high bar to reach. I can't say I am yet comfortable.

In a previous thread, Cap'n Ron stated that it was about his 5,000th landing that he began to get confident. I'm nowhere near that, and use that idea to help me judge my own competence with a backstop against foolhardy over-confidence.
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I am confident that I do not know everything about flying, and have a lot to learn. I am comfortable in my ability to fly my plane safely from hangar(tie down) to hangar(tie down) and what situations I am not comfortable in. I bought a 182 right after I got my PPL and did my IFR training in the 182. I did not start my IFR training until I knew that I could handle the 182 comfortably. My definition of being comfortable may differ from others, but for me it meant being able to fly the plane, and utilize the avionics in a seamless and natural fashion. It is difficult to explain in words what I mean, but it is sort of the difference between how you felt just before you did your first solo, and how you felt after you passed your checkride.

Maybe others can help. Maybe others will disagree as well.

Doug
 
Get real imc flying experience. It is not the same to fly an approach in the practice airport with the low time cfi acting as atc as flying in the real system with real traffic.
 
With my instrument, before i sadly ran out of that mystical substance that makes airplanes fly, i was lacking the cross country time, so every flight after basic attitude instrument flying was done as a cross country, either in actual (think may/june in socal), or under the hood on an IFR flight plan. I've flown to pretty much every airport within a 51 NM radius of MYF in the system and have many approaches, some with a missed, when it was a VOR approach with a fairly high MDA, in actual conditions under my belt. In my training, i also did my IFR long x/c from KMYF to KOAK. 7.5 hrs, pretty much the whole time under the hood, or in actual. The return flight was off and on in actual, and got a little exposure to icing as well (scared the crap out of me). I guess im with cirrusmx, and get as much exposure to actual and in the system as you can.
 
When I got my airplane I needed to build the 50 hours XC PIC time and time in type for insurance, so I grabbed a CFII friend of mine and we went on cool adventures. I got some awesome experience in IMC before I came back to my regular CFII. Although I did a lot of my XC's solo I did some true IMC XC's with a CFII and I had a blast. Flying in IMC is totally different than flying with foggles. Also "real world" flying IMO is easier than the situations you'll experience in training. The first part of my IFR training was really boring, the next part (holds, procedure turns) was challenging, and now approaches which I'd already done are easy. I'd say being familiar with your airplane is a big key to the puzzle. If you're renting IMO it'll be more difficult because it won't be the same airplane with the same exact equipment every time. Train in what you'll fly...
 
Dont worry about how many hours you are going to spend towards the certificate. It all goes into your logbook anyways. Its experience. It kills me that people think that after 35 hours they can go do some real flying. i got my ifr and then i went on cross countries with a cfi to get familiar with the system. way different than training. Picture yourself flying in the terminal area in imc with five airliners behind you. That is real IFR training. Also, try to fly longer trips. at least 200-300 nm that should put you through different weather systems. It also kills me that 50 miles is considered cross country. that is not even 20 minutes on the cirrus, LOL.
 
find a nice comfortable speed to set up for the approaches. I was moving somewhat quick at 120 knots when I first started. After a few lessons, I realized I needed to slow down to 90. Your errors are magnified at faster speeds. Going slow also gives you a few extra seconds to get things set up for the approach.
 
Don't over think it, its really not that complicated.

This is an area where the 5 P's really shine - Prior Planning Prevents **** Poor Performance. Sadly most instructors don't do well with imparting this part of the teaching. Example - XC flight you should be very familiar with all approaches to airport of intended landing ( for now pretend alternate is not needed ).

Now this is where I see failure. Find all the airports along your route that you have the equipment to make an IMC emergency landing at and to define that say within 50 miles of your path. Now peruse those charts, you are not looking to memorize them. You are looking for out of the ordinary stuff such as if local altimeter not available raise MDA 100 ft with point being IF you need to divert then you are NOT surprised by anything.

I know you are far from this part of your training but reciting the entire AF/D while briefing in air is not only not necessary if you planned properly number one but quite a dangerous distraction number two.

Aviate, Navigate, Communicate it really is that simple. All else fails do not bust your minimum safe altitude and make a call for help. I believe if you always remember that, then it is only as hard as you make it to be. :eek:

:wink2:
 
rbridges said:
find a nice comfortable speed to set up for the approaches. I was moving somewhat quick at 120 knots when I first started. After a few lessons, I realized I needed to slow down to 90. Your errors are magnified at faster speeds. Going slow also gives you a few extra seconds to get things set up for the approach.
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90 kts and 1900 rpm is my go to for an ILS in a 152, 172 or PA28
 
Being a pilot is about knowing what's important and being able to prioritize. Aviate navigate communicate is a good framework.

My advice is to stay ahead. During training if you ever find yourself just sitting there flying the plane then you're probably screwing up but not getting ready for what's next.

As others said aim for actual IMC. Have a canned flight planed in at least two directions from your home field so you can go a number of ways to find IMC.

At first your scan will feel mechanical...but eventually you will figure out what needs to be looked at and when.

Good luck and have fun.
 
Easy easy easy training for IFR.

Buy FSX or X plane - and start flying approaches and do basic IFR flying sitting in your chair at home in front of a computer.

What this does for you is a) scan and b) timing - understanding that at 80-90knots you have ALOT of time to fix things that might be going wrong on any given approach.

Start out in calm fog with a 1000' ceiling and gradually make it more challenging - and then you start flying actual trips from point A to point B using real approach plates and ODPs =

Everyone who has done that - a flight a day - 1 hour a day - starting now - you'll be amazed at how natural it all seems . . . the thing with most sims is that they are essentially instrument trainers because the screen size is so small that there is really very little visual flying that is done . . .
 
Sims controls are also so awful at feedback that they're harder to fly accurately and smoothly. A real airplane is a piece of cake after fighting with a sucky cheap controller for a few hours.
 
comanchepilot said:
Easy easy easy training for IFR.

Buy FSX or X plane - and start flying approaches and do basic IFR flying sitting in your chair at home in front of a computer.
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Please, please, please do not do this until you've had training from a qualified instructor on instrument flying basics, radio nav basics, and then training on approach procedures with that instructor. As an active instrument instructor, I've too often had to clean up the mess when folks try to teach themselves instrument flying. I fully endorse the use of flight simulation devices and even some of those non-certified computer flight game programs as part of an integrated instrument training program, but practicing what you don't know how to do is counterproductive to effective learning -- the Laws of Primacy and Exercise will be working against you the rest of the way.
 
Ron Levy said:
Please, please, please do not do this until you've had training from a qualified instructor on instrument flying basics, radio nav basics, and then training on approach procedures with that instructor. As an active instrument instructor, I've too often had to clean up the mess when folks try to teach themselves instrument flying. I fully endorse the use of flight simulation devices and even some of those non-certified computer flight game programs as part of an integrated instrument training program, but practicing what you don't know how to do is counterproductive to effective learning -- the Laws of Primacy and Exercise will be working against you the rest of the way.
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true.
 
you can shoot approaches in X-Plane?

Do the freqs and courses actually match up? Interesting if they do. I usually just play around VFR on it. Never thought to dial up navs...
 
We all know about this video for the PPL oral exam, and many have used it in their prep. Is there an equivalent for the IFR oral?

 
Captain said:
you can shoot approaches in X-Plane?

Do the freqs and courses actually match up? Interesting if they do. I usually just play around VFR on it. Never thought to dial up navs...
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Can vary due to updates, however, both Microsoft's FSX & X-Plane use real navigation databases.
 
best advice I can offer.....

know the numbers for your plane. It reduces the workload if you can set it and forget it. You need to know power settings for each phase of flight; approach level, precision and nonprecision descent, cruise climb/descent along with these settings for gear/flaps.

Good luck, have fun!!
 
AggieMike88 said:
We all know about this video for the PPL oral exam, and many have used it in their prep. Is there an equivalent for the IFR oral?

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Not to my knowledge, but if someone has a training dummy, video equipment, and a few bucks for my time, I'd be happy to help make one based on watching a lot of IR orals with a lot of different examiners over the last few years.
 
Ron Levy said:
Not to my knowledge, but if someone has a training dummy, video equipment, and a few bucks for my time, I'd be happy to help make one based on watching a lot of IR orals with a lot of different examiners over the last few years.
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I'll volunteer to be the dummy.
 
"keep your scan up"

If you look away, like at the GPS, or at the comm control, or whatever... you get about 2-3 seconds max before you have to resume your scan.

You get 100 feet vertically, and must maintain course within 10 degrees. It's surprising how fast you can bust those if you stare at the GPS (or anything) for more than its fair share of time.
 
I am training now for IFR. I was making to big of adjustments on the ILS, my CFII put me on a sim, failed some insterments and I some how made smaller adjustments in the plane. I hated the sim but now understand how much it has thought me. Do not under estimate how much the sim can help.
 
In addition to trying to get as much IMC time as possible, it's really important to have a CFII who will fly you, when the time is right in your training, partial paneled, and really down to the basics. I can't tell you how many hours I spent under the hood and in IMC with just my mag compass, the timer in the panel clock, and most of the rest of the panel failed at various times. Oh, the GPS screen was covered over too except for the frequencies.
 
Ron Levy said:
Not to my knowledge, but if someone has a training dummy, video equipment, and a few bucks for my time, I'd be happy to help make one based on watching a lot of IR orals with a lot of different examiners over the last few years.
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roddie said:
I'll volunteer to be the dummy.
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Ron Levy said:
That's a start, but someone's going to have to pay your way to Maryland or my way to Texas.
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I'm dumber than Roddie, live in Maryland and have an HD camera. The time will be money well spent.
 
DutchessFlier said:
In addition to trying to get as much IMC time as possible, it's really important to have a CFII who will fly you, when the time is right in your training, partial paneled, and really down to the basics. I can't tell you how many hours I spent under the hood and in IMC with just my mag compass, the timer in the panel clock, and most of the rest of the panel failed at various times. Oh, the GPS screen was covered over too except for the frequencies.
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How in the world did you keep the brown side down?:D
 
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