Tips for Taxiing in a 172

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HerrGruyere

Line Up and Wait
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Pistol Pete
Hey y'all,

My taxi skills in the 172 suck. I just have a difficult time managing the bungee spring setup for the nosewheel. I'll push my foot in before the turn and the plane just keeps going straight so I end up having to use a little differential braking to get the plane to turn. Other times I'll hit the pedal and the plane starts turning right away. Drives me nuts. I much prefer to taxi in the Archer because there's a direct nosewheel connection so I can steer a helluva lot better.

Any tips for the 172? I try to plan my turns far ahead, but when I have to taxi slowly it's like the plane doesn't want to turn. I don't want to keep using differential braking because the flight school doesn't like it. They consider it akin to riding the brakes.

Thanks!
Pete
 
1. Push your rudder pedals as far as they will go.

2. If you need to turn more, use the inboard brake.

3. Flight school probably happier to replace brakes at reasonable intervals rather than pull the airplane out of a ditch or another airplane.
 
Just practice, it will come to you.

Nothing wrong with dragging a brake just for a second to get a turn started. Don't stab it of course.. if you're smooth about it, no one will notice.
 
A lot of flight schools teach taxiing with heels on the floor to avoid dragging the brakes. Put your whole foot on the pedal and you can very smoothly apply braking on one side if it is needed to turn sharper.
 
If you were supposed to never need differential brakes, they wouldn't have installed them on airplanes.

As already mentioned - use the rudder pedal as much as possible and use the differential brakes where the rudder/steering stops being effective. That's what they're made for.
 
Note which direction the wind is coming from, turns into the wind are easy, away are difficult. If you are holding the nose up with the strut fully extended, I don't think the front wheel turns.
 
On my first stage check, the instructor was like, "You need to push the rudder pedal all the way." She goes to push it further and then said, "Oh, you already have it down all the way." I mean, every time I'm in the plane I push that pedal with all my might. Nada. Usually, I just give a small application of differential brake in the direction of the turn to help move it along. I just don't want to get in the habit of using the brake all the time to steer. Or maybe I do? Haha I'm not sure. I certainly don't ride the brakes, though. I wouldn't do it in my car so why would I do it in the plane?
 
Yes, you do, you want to get in the habit of doing exactly what you're doing. Lead by going as far as you can with the rudder then adding brake as required to make the turn as necessary.
 
That's going to be a lot of nose up (to the point of near lifting it off the ground).
You hit the differential brakes on it at that point you'll drag the nose tire sideways on the ground.
 
I don't hold the elevator full aft. I keep it neutral or I correct for the wind. I haven't had any instances where I can feel/hear that nosewheel skidding.

I dunno, I just thought I was taxiing wrong. ::shrug:: My CFI hasn't said anything. The only time anyone has really noticed my taxiing efforts was on my checkride and she simply said I need to plan ahead with the rudder inputs.
 
HerrGruyere said:
I don't hold the elevator full aft. I keep it neutral or I correct for the wind. I haven't had any instances where I can feel/hear that nosewheel skidding.

I dunno, I just thought I was taxiing wrong. ::shrug:: My CFI hasn't said anything. The only time anyone has really noticed my taxiing efforts was on my checkride and she simply said I need to plan ahead with the rudder inputs.
Click to expand...

That as well, remember to pay attention to the wind, if you are turning downwind you need to start earlier since the bungee only has limited strength.
 
Ahhh that makes sense. Alright, next time I'm out with the 172 I'll try to factor in that wind. Maybe that's been the issue this whole time...

By the way, thanks everyone for your responses!
 
HerrGruyere said:
Ahhh that makes sense. Alright, next time I'm out with the 172 I'll try to factor in that wind. Maybe that's been the issue this whole time...

By the way, thanks everyone for your responses!
Click to expand...


Could also be the steering link springs to the nose gear are worn out or broken too. Ive replaced a number of them over the years.
 
HerrGruyere said:
Ahhh that makes sense. Alright, next time I'm out with the 172 I'll try to factor in that wind. Maybe that's been the issue this whole time...

By the way, thanks everyone for your responses!
Click to expand...

Also, if it's always the same plane and always the same direction, the plane may have a bungee issue.
 
HerrGruyere said:
On my first stage check, the instructor was like, "You need to push the rudder pedal all the way." She goes to push it further and then said, "Oh, you already have it down all the way." I mean, every time I'm in the plane I push that pedal with all my might. Nada. Usually, I just give a small application of differential brake in the direction of the turn to help move it along. I just don't want to get in the habit of using the brake all the time to steer. Or maybe I do? Haha I'm not sure. I certainly don't ride the brakes, though. I wouldn't do it in my car so why would I do it in the plane?
Click to expand...

You shouldn't normally need THAT much rudder/nose wheel input to make a normal turn. How old is this 172? I trained on a 172P that had some questionable bungies in the nose wheel so they didn't work nearly as well as they should have. I think that's somewhat common on older skyhawks. The SP models in my experience turn much better.
 
It's a '99 172R. I haven't gone as far as discerning which ones have issues in which directions. My thoughts were also that the bungees are just worn out. I should ask my CFI if anyone else is having issues.
 
The nosewheel angle is limited unless you are stepping on a brake pedal. So without at least a bit of brake pressure at the beginning of the turn you cannot turn as sharply as you would otherwise be able to.
 
HerrGruyere said:
It's a '99 172R. I haven't gone as far as discerning which ones have issues in which directions. My thoughts were also that the bungees are just worn out. I should ask my CFI if anyone else is having issues.
Click to expand...

If you haven't discerned it by now means it's most likely crosswind related.
 
HerrGruyere said:
Ahhh that makes sense. Alright, next time I'm out with the 172 I'll try to factor in that wind. Maybe that's been the issue this whole time...

By the way, thanks everyone for your responses!
Click to expand...

In the 2-seat RV's, which have a free-castering nosewheel, sometimes I have to keep a little brake in on one side when taxiing perpendicular to a stiff crosswind. That big 'ol rudder and lightweight airframe act like a huge wind vane.
 
CJones said:
In the 2-seat RV's, which have a free-castering nosewheel, sometimes I have to keep a little brake in on one side when taxiing perpendicular to a stiff crosswind. That big 'ol rudder and lightweight airframe act like a huge wind vane.
Click to expand...

The Diamond DA20 I trained in had the same behavior. Sometimes very slightly dragging the brake was needed to maintain going straight.
 
You're doing fine. Don't be afraid to use the brakes. That's what they're there for. Just don't ride them when you don't need them.
 
Tell em to fix the damned plane!

denny-o
old n grouchy about poorly maintained planes
 
The first plane I trained in was a 172P. It seemed to steer fine....at least as far as I was concerned...then one day i had to rent a different plane (still a 172P). The rudder pedals were hard as a rock, had to push them all the way to the floor (much like the OP's situation) So, it seems to me, that not all 172's are like that. Maybe it needs some repair work.
 
HerrGruyere said:
Hey y'all,

My taxi skills in the 172 suck. I just have a difficult time managing the bungee spring setup for the nosewheel. I'll push my foot in before the turn and the plane just keeps going straight so I end up having to use a little differential braking to get the plane to turn. Other times I'll hit the pedal and the plane starts turning right away. Drives me nuts. I much prefer to taxi in the Archer because there's a direct nosewheel connection so I can steer a helluva lot better.

Any tips for the 172? I try to plan my turns far ahead, but when I have to taxi slowly it's like the plane doesn't want to turn. I don't want to keep using differential braking because the flight school doesn't like it. They consider it akin to riding the brakes.

Thanks!
Pete
Click to expand...

I just re-read this. You said "taxi slowly." Remember, the faster you go the more authority the control surfaces have (rudder). So if your post is about the rudder being less effective the slower you taxi then that is perfectly normal.
 
I don't know, I've had 172's that varied all over the board steering wise, from solid-feeling-don't-need-the-brakes tight to so loose rudder pedals had little if any input.
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I just re-read this. You said "taxi slowly." Remember, the faster you go the more authority the control surfaces have (rudder). So if your post is about the rudder being less effective the slower you taxi then that is perfectly normal.
Click to expand...

Nah it's not the rudder. I know that the control surfaces are ineffective at slow speeds. ...But imagine if they weren't! Haha

Sac Arrow said:
I don't know, I've had 172's that varied all over the board steering wise, from solid-feeling-don't-need-the-brakes tight to so loose rudder pedals had little if any input.
Click to expand...

Yeah some of the 172s have a bit of a "dead-zone" feeling to them, meaning I can move the pedals a bit to the left or right and nothing happens. Or maybe it's just me. I have 25 hours. Now I'm over-thinking what could/couldn't be wrong. I'm just gonna keep doing what I've been doing and consider the wind angles next time I'm having issues turning.
 
I have never had to deal with this issue in any 172, rented or otherwise... Something is not as it should be and should be checked out.

What is suspicious to me is that you say sometimes it is slow to react and sometimes it isn't. If there was no problem, it would be consistently one way or the other.
 
HerrGruyere said:
Nah it's not the rudder. I know that the control surfaces are ineffective at slow speeds. ...But imagine if they weren't! Haha



Yeah some of the 172s have a bit of a "dead-zone" feeling to them, meaning I can move the pedals a bit to the left or right and nothing happens. Or maybe it's just me. I have 25 hours. Now I'm over-thinking what could/couldn't be wrong. I'm just gonna keep doing what I've been doing and consider the wind angles next time I'm having issues turning.
Click to expand...

Are you using the yoke during taxi (to correct for wind)? I often don't do this since I fly in low winds only but maybe that will help you.
 
I've found the same thing recently moving from a Warrior to a '03 172S. The steering is not as tight or controlled as in a Piper, so I have the rudder to the floor getting the airplane to turn on the taxi line and sometimes have to touch the brakes.

That's really different from the Piper world where you can taxi with a high degree of control without touching the brake until you want to stop. The two airplanes have a very different feel in taxi ( and a pretty different feel in flight...)
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
I just re-read this. You said "taxi slowly." Remember, the faster you go the more authority the control surfaces have (rudder). So if your post is about the rudder being less effective the slower you taxi then that is perfectly normal.
Click to expand...
They need to figure out a way to put power steering on these things:D
 
kimberlyanne546 said:
Are you using the yoke during taxi (to correct for wind)? I often don't do this since I fly in low winds only but maybe that will help you.
Click to expand...

Of course! That's one of the first things I learned.

bflynn said:
I've found the same thing recently moving from a Warrior to a '03 172S. The steering is not as tight or controlled as in a Piper, so I have the rudder to the floor getting the airplane to turn on the taxi line and sometimes have to touch the brakes.

That's really different from the Piper world where you can taxi with a high degree of control without touching the brake until you want to stop. The two airplanes have a very different feel in taxi ( and a pretty different feel in flight...)
Click to expand...

Ah you're having the same problem. Glad I'm not the only one.
 
Come to think about it the one reason I love the 150 (flew it Wednesday night) is because it is the first airplane I've piloted (out of 6 so far) that RESPONDS. Even on the ground, for a very sharp turn, I do NOT need the brakes. Not one bit. As long as I'm at the right power setting, I can use very light control inputs. I love that plane. The 172 feels like molasses.
 
Dr. O said:
Tell em to fix the damned plane!

denny-o
old n grouchy about poorly maintained planes
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly, Denny. I've never taxied a 172 that didn't immediately turn when I pushed the rudder pedal.

Hey, O.P. -- can you try taxiing a different 172, just for comparison's sake? It may just be that the plane in question has a problem that needs to be fixed.
 
The 172 i trained in taxied like my 1972 Ford pickup. The 172 I just purchased has far tighter control and less "play" in the steering.
 
spinfire said:
The nosewheel angle is limited unless you are stepping on a brake pedal. So without at least a bit of brake pressure at the beginning of the turn you cannot turn as sharply as you would otherwise be able to.
Click to expand...

Can you provide a reference for this? I know of no limits on nose wheel turn except when the strut is fully extended. I don't believe this is correct. Cessna nosegear straightens itself at full strut extension. If the strut is fully extended on the ground, something is wrong.
 
denverpilot said:
Can you provide a reference for this? I know of no limits on nose wheel turn except when the strut is fully extended. I don't believe this is correct. Cessna nosegear straightens itself at full strut extension. If the strut is fully extended on the ground, something is wrong.
Click to expand...


It's limited because the control will only pull it so far, in order for it to go further, it will have to be done by geometry of spinning the plane tighter on the inside brake.
 
There are a number if factors that can make a 172 reluctant to turn. The weak spring bungees is a definite possibility, but I wouldn't expect a '99 model to have so many hours on it that the bungees are shot.

The rigging for the rudder system requires the proper setting of the rudder bar/nosewheel FIRST. If a mechanic rigs things wrong, those bungees might not be exercising proper authority on the nosewheel steering collar. A "dead zone" is a giveaway on this one.

Speaking of the collar, it might be worn out and rocking instead of rotating. All the torque link parts might be worn, too, so that there's a lot of slop in the system.

The tire pressure might be low. That makes it hard to turn.

The strut's gas pressure might be too high. If the strut is extended too far, the nosewheel centering cam tries to keep the nosewheel straight ahead and steering is next to impossible.

If turning 180 degrees, such as for backtracking the runway, make the initial turn into the crosswind. Much easier than trying to force the fin and rudder against the wind. Taildragger pilots sometimes learn the hard way about this one.

Dan
 
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