Tipping--again

Dave Siciliano

Dave Siciliano

Final Approach
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Dave Siciliano
Well, I've run into some pretty strong commercializm and tip dilemas here in paradise. Wanted some perspective.

When I got my hotel package, it was explained there was valet parking with the package. Never could figure out how much was being charged extra bacause of the manner in which I purchased the package. Anyway, in addition to the hotel charges, there was a 17 dollar per day per diem. I asked what that was and was told it was for the DSL connection, valet parking and some other things. Then, in addition, another 5 dollars per day valet parking. Then when I go to get my car, the valets make it very apparent they want tips. One wouldn't give me the keys to the car yesterday until we had a very frank discussion about this.

Also, buffet breakfast that is expensive, but good. Waiter brings drinks and sucks up a lot making it clear he wants to be tipped. It's clear they could put drinks out, but don't so the staff can be tipped. Sat for about ten minutes yesterday waiting for someone to come over and just provide drinks: I sat while the girls went through the buffet and they had begun eating before the waiter even got over to ask for drink oders. We were all half way through before drinks came. We watched them set several tables while we sat waiting for drings.

So, how do y'all handle things like this? Even for things we have paid for that are pretty expensive, sailing, parasailing, etc, there are staff hinting or sometimes being pretty aggressive about tipping. While captive on the boat we get commercials to buy stuff, they take pics they say are free and later want you to purchase, and we here sob stories about how expensive it is to live here in Hawaii.

Aloha,

Dave
 
I'd talk with hotel management and the people you bought the package from. Clearly they weren't upfront with you about what was included. Many hotels are now including "resort fees" that don't include gratuities.

Sure sounds like you're getting what I call the "Egypt" treatment. When I was in Egypt a few years ago, everyone had their hand out for Baksheesh. Grease the palms and all would be well. It was expected.

Seriously, I'd have a talk with the hotel management and the folks that sold you the package. If you aren't getting service without tips, and the gratuities were supposed to be included, then you have a legitimate beef with both the hotel and the operator. Likewise, if the package company failed to disclose, you have a beef with them.

That's what I'd do.... although I don't buy packages for a number of reasons, I have had to talk with hotel management on a number of occasions, and usually the problem was rectified.
 
Dave Siciliano said:
Well, I've run into some pretty strong commercializm and tip dilemas here in paradise. Wanted some perspective.

When I got my hotel package, it was explained there was valet parking with the package. Never could figure out how much was being charged extra bacause of the manner in which I purchased the package. Anyway, in addition to the hotel charges, there was a 17 dollar per day per diem. I asked what that was and was told it was for the DSL connection, valet parking and some other things. Then, in addition, another 5 dollars per day valet parking. Then when I go to get my car, the valets make it very apparent they want tips. One wouldn't give me the keys to the car yesterday until we had a very frank discussion about this.

Also, buffet breakfast that is expensive, but good. Waiter brings drinks and sucks up a lot making it clear he wants to be tipped. It's clear they could put drinks out, but don't so the staff can be tipped. Sat for about ten minutes yesterday waiting for someone to come over and just provide drinks: I sat while the girls went through the buffet and they had begun eating before the waiter even got over to ask for drink oders. We were all half way through before drinks came. We watched them set several tables while we sat waiting for drings.

So, how do y'all handle things like this? Even for things we have paid for that are pretty expensive, sailing, parasailing, etc, there are staff hinting or sometimes being pretty aggressive about tipping. While captive on the boat we get commercials to buy stuff, they take pics they say are free and later want you to purchase, and we here sob stories about how expensive it is to live here in Hawaii.

Aloha,

Dave
Click to expand...
How I handle it: (1) I am frank with the staff who are demanding tips- that the managment misrepresents them as "all included". (2) I continue to tip only for very good service, not for the fact of panhandling service. Great service is classy and gets tipped. (3) Panhandling gets a call to managment.

(4) Then I turn around, never go back, and let everyone I know about it. AND, let managment know that I have done so.
 
wsuffa said:
I'd talk with hotel management and the people you bought the package from. Clearly they weren't upfront with you about what was included. Many hotels are now including "resort fees" that don't include gratuities.

Sure sounds like you're getting what I call the "Egypt" treatment. When I was in Egypt a few years ago, everyone had their hand out for Baksheesh. Grease the palms and all would be well. It was expected.

Seriously, I'd have a talk with the hotel management and the folks that sold you the package. If you aren't getting service without tips, and the gratuities were supposed to be included, then you have a legitimate beef with both the hotel and the operator. Likewise, if the package company failed to disclose, you have a beef with them.

That's what I'd do.... although I don't buy packages for a number of reasons, I have had to talk with hotel management on a number of occasions, and usually the problem was rectified.
Click to expand...

Bill:

I normally don't do packages either, but the AA package deal offered quite a savings over going to Starwood or the hotel, car rental agency and airline separately. Thought I had done a pretty good job of gettting all charges itemized. Really, this is small stuff overall, but annoying.

Yes, I will ask management. But this is sure pervasive in Maui. I think so many people just cave in, they get away with it. Next year will probably be to a little more laid back area in the Baron. Thinking BVI righgt now.

Thanks,

Dave
 
bbchien said:
How I handle it: (1) I am frank with the staff who are demanding tips- that the managment misrepresents them as "all included". (2) I continue to tip only for very good service, not for the fact of panhandling service. Great service is classy and gets tipped. (3) Panhandling gets a call to managment.

(4) Then I turn around, never go back, and let everyone I know about it. AND, let managment know that I have done so.
Click to expand...

Thanks Bruce. Great advise and the manner in which I try to do things. Sometimes I just don't want to deal with this stuff in front of guests on vacation, but guess I will.

Aloha,

Dave
 
Dave, the packages are put together by an outside tour operator and sold under the AA brand name. Ive seen some packages that are explicit about what is included and not included.

Bruce's advice is sound, but I find that I get better results going to management - because often the servers are victims of the tour operator and management. Like Bruce, I spread word-of-mouth about these kinds of experience.

Here's a great example of some folks that let the world know about their bad hotel experience.

http://www.snopes.com/business/consumer/badhotel.asp

I'm not surprised that everyone has their hand out. There is a real problem with European tourists, because in many European countries the "service charge" is included in most restaurant bills. I recognize that Hawaii has more Asian tourists - in most places in Japan, there is NO tipping at restaurants. My bet is that the servers have been stiffed by plenty of tourists in non-package deals. Again, part of this is a management problem, because they can price food/accomodations and compensate workers in light of this.

And don't expect a tip to get you better service.... I can't count the number of places where I've found service to be lacking, even with good tips. In those cases, a little talk with management is often persuasive.
 
In Ma, one of the local (generally good named) restaurants were charging 18% gratuity on functions like weddings and such. It turns out, the managers were pocketing some of that for themselves. When the waitstaff complained, several were canned.
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2006/07/27/steak_house_may_be_liable_for_25m/
So you just never know.
I am a very generous tipper. If I knew tips were included, I'd be giving something less than my norm. I just wish how much someone was tipping for me.
 
silver-eagle said:
In Ma, one of the local (generally good named) restaurants were charging 18% gratuity on functions like weddings and such. It turns out, the managers were pocketing some of that for themselves. When the waitstaff complained, several were canned.
http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2006/07/27/steak_house_may_be_liable_for_25m/
So you just never know.
I am a very generous tipper. If I knew tips were included, I'd be giving something less than my norm. I just wish how much someone was tipping for me.
Click to expand...

What does Richard Kind have to do with that?
 
Looks like a bad link.

I heard or read the story about that steakhouse sometime last week.
 
We chatted with a manager her and she was very responsive. How the valet worked had been incorrectly explained to me more than once. She explained it and said she would talk with staff so correct information was give out in the future.

The Sheraton has been pretty great. Little stuff isn't right, but it is little stuff. Biggest issue is it's just crowded and everything takes time and has people waiting--even stores.

Aloha,

Dave
 
Still beats the heck out of a busy day in Vegas, Dave....

(I've been to one too many conventions there....)
 
That would upset me as well. I rather have the power to tip well or tip poorly based on the service recieved. When places inlcude 'service charges', I make sure to note that to the person lookign for a tip. (Waitress, Valet, etc).

I have no problems tipping a lineguy at an FBO for carrying bags, the waitress that hustled to make sure I have a full diet coke on the table, or others that show they try.
 
wsuffa said:
Still beats the heck out of a busy day in Vegas, Dave....

(I've been to one too many conventions there....)
Click to expand...

Yea Bill:
I'm not really a Vegas guy. Go to my annual Army reunion there to see the guys, but really don't like the general enviromnent. First place I'd ever seen a tip jar at an ice cream parlor. Everyone wants a tip; crazy. I see plenty of folks tipping a dealer that is taking them to the cleaners. Last time I won a big pot, someone explained to me that the dealer was supposed to get 10%. Yea, and the dealer took a lot of risk for me, didn't they <frown with headslap!!>
They have big players they call whales; I think of them as saps--period.

Aloha,

Dave
 
It is satisfying to tip well, when good tips have been earned. I have also had teh experience, when first checking in to a good hotel, of tipping a particularly helpful doorman or bellman well, and having someone who was (during their hours of work) very dedicated to taking acre of us. But it's hit-and-miss.

Australia was funny, because they ...just ... don't ... tip! Service was (again, my experience) cheerful and prompt, but no expectation of gratuity at all, and no provision for handling tips (credit card slips, f'rinstance, have the total, and that is it).

And Bill, I'm with you all the way on the "resort fee" chicken****; you pay extra money for a premium property (oh, say, La Cantera, for one you'd know well), and then they add-on the "resort fee." I have even had the inevitable smart-ass conversation, telling them I promised not to use any of the "resort" amenities, to no avail. I consider it false advertising, maybe even fraud.

Don't even get me started on TicketMaster and "convenience charges."

---

Edit:

Added for kudos and counterpoint: I suggest Cibolo Creek Ranch (www.cibolocreekranch.com), where the service is way beyond good, the ambience unmatched, the runway nicely-paved, and tips are not sought. It ain't cheap, but I have been twice, and will go back again.
 
Last edited:
wsuffa said:
Dave, the packages are put together by an outside tour operator and sold under the AA brand name. Ive seen some packages that are explicit about what is included and not included.

Bruce's advice is sound, but I find that I get better results going to management - because often the servers are victims of the tour operator and management. Like Bruce, I spread word-of-mouth about these kinds of experience.

Here's a great example of some folks that let the world know about their bad hotel experience.

http://www.snopes.com/business/consumer/badhotel.asp

I'm not surprised that everyone has their hand out. There is a real problem with European tourists, because in many European countries the "service charge" is included in most restaurant bills. I recognize that Hawaii has more Asian tourists - in most places in Japan, there is NO tipping at restaurants. My bet is that the servers have been stiffed by plenty of tourists in non-package deals. Again, part of this is a management problem, because they can price food/accomodations and compensate workers in light of this.

And don't expect a tip to get you better service.... I can't count the number of places where I've found service to be lacking, even with good tips. In those cases, a little talk with management is often persuasive.
Click to expand...

Ha ha ha, checked out the link. The presentation is great (only works in IE.) I'm going to remember that one.
 
Thats why:
1. I never do packages,
2. I stay away from the high priced tourist traps
3. always go to and stay off of the beaten path,,

you can see and do just as much, without a lot of people milling around and not everyone with their hands out.

Hate Hawaii anyway, nothing but a big, high priced tourist trap.
 
SCCutler said:
Don't even get me started on TicketMaster and "convenience charges."
Click to expand...

What galls me the most is not that TM puts the extra fee on for their services. It is that there is (in many cases) no way to avoid it, not even by going and buying directly from the venue. Many venues charge the fee even if you buy directly from the box office. Some don't, but many do....
 
One of the 'extra' charges that really galls me lately is the workout charge. Hyatt does this the most. They offer a 24 hour a day health facility. Then between 8pm and 5am you have to get a pass to use. They charge you $5 for that pass and try to tell you it is for your safety. They say then they know who is there. I ask them why they do not care from 5am to 8pm when the place is not staffed at all either. But they just have blank stares for that question.

As for Hawaii they always pull this type of stuff. When I stay there it is all on contract and they have tried to pull it but we have a signed statement stating exactly what we will pay so they remove it or we dispute each and every charge. I have yet to have one of the disputed charged put back on.
 
Dave,

It has been my (albiet short) life experience that the more the foot traffic (or the higher the assumed wealth of the traveler), the more likely a tip is suspected.

Package places are infamous for charging you per-diem rates for simple "services" that they don't have to bake in to the actual fee. They advertise a $1950 week long stay, with all of these services (that you would normally expect to pay for), but then they hit you with little things that "aren't included" in the package price, like parking and other similar services. The dirty secret is, the people working the jobs delivering these services are still paid as if they were in a tip-paying profession (i.e. lower hourly salary). That coupled with "people being rich for vacation" (people living well outside their means as a part of their vacation, the tipping attitude becomes rampant.

In India, tipping is expected everywhere. And I mean, everywhere. We were locked down in our hotel when rioting broke out in the city we were in. The cleaning people came in, cleaned my room and turned down my bed - as expected - and they waited, staring at me, for a tip. I wasn't paying attention (reading a book on my balcony), until one of the guys knocked on the slider and held his hand out. I gave him a 50 rupee tip (about $1 USD, a "pretty standard" tip for India), at which point HE INFORMED ME that this wasn't enough, and if I was not going to tip ALL NINE CLEANING PEOPLE that had showed up to my room 100 rupees EACH he would inform hotel management.

I told him he was welcome to do so; and he did - to which they called upstairs and informed me a 1000 rupee service charge had been added on my bill to cover a "daily hospitality gratuity", since I was a non-tipper.

Everywhere you went - from the airport (baggage handlers) to the hotel (people opening your car door, loading your luggage), people demanded a tip. The personal trainer in the gym worked with my co-worker for an hour (1500 rupee fee), to which he tipped her 300 rupees (20% tip). She informed him if he thought she was only worth 300 rupees, he was sadly mistaken. 600 was more like it, and if he didn't, he could take it up with the other trainer.

This was at the "classiest" hotel in all of Bangalore - $450 USD a night (19,000Rs)

I spent about $350 USD on tips alone that week, out of my own pocket.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
Andrew,

It's worse than that in Cairo.....

BTDT.

bill
 
Nice thing about our cruise to Alaska in June - NCL simply puts a $10/day/passenger service charge on the bill. They they divvy it up among the service crew. And service was excellent with smiling faces the whole week.

I don't mind tipping when warrented, but I'll leave nothing when appropriate, too. I've been known to write the definition of TIP - "To Insure Promptness" in the appropriate place. Had a taxi driving in Washington DC last week who got $.50 by shorting me on the change when my tip would have been - "Hang up the %^*&^ cell phone, put both hands on the wheel and look someplace beyond the end of the hood when driving!" Then the shuttle driver in Boston was looking for one when I got to the hotel on Thursday. He had already charged me more than two sources said it should cost, so he got nothing.

Now, the sky cap and his electric cart at PHX last night deserved the tip I gave him. I wouldn't have made my connection without his help.
 
Ghery said:
I don't mind tipping when warrented, but I'll leave nothing when appropriate, too.
Click to expand...
I find that a penny tip makes a good statement at restaurants when you get lousy service.

I recall once when I left a penny tip at a restaurant that had a register at the door. As I was paying the bill, a busboy came up to the cashier and whispered in his ear. He said, "was there something wrong with your service?" I said, "yeah, it stunk." He asked the busboy who the waitress was. Anothe whisper. "Oh. (Like this was not the first complaint.) Then: "I'm really sorry, sir. Come back again and I'm sure you'll have a better experience." But I never went back.
 
I remember taking my mother out for her birthday a few years back. The service stunk. I was generous; I left 14 cents. The waiter actually came after me, so I explained that the service was horrid. He said he'd never received such a poor tip in his life. That used to be one of my favorite Greek restaurants in Chicago, but I haven't been back since.
 
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