Time to Step Up to a Faster Plane?

MBDiagMan

Final Approach
Joined
May 8, 2011
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NorthEast Texas
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Doc
I haven't been here in quite a while. My life underwent massive change in 2016. Very early in the year my lovely wife of 42 years passed away unexpectedly three days before my last day of work before retirement. I had thought that retirement was going to mean LOTS of flying, but it hasn't worked out that way. LOTS of things have kept me from flying very much, so the expected result was imminent. My flying is getting rusty.

I was moving toward buying a Mooney and stepping up. I have located a beautiful Mooney and am probably within a few days of making an offer and having them ferry it to my home field. I have a great instructor there with lots of Mooney time. My plan was to fly with him until he signs off my complex endorsement and start doing some traveling.

I spent lots of time on this forum in 2011 while I slogged through the Tailwheel training after buying my Cessna 140. To get everyone up to date, I passed my checkride and now have about 325 hours total time with about 300 of those hours Tailwheel.

At this point you might think it sounds as if I am ready to step up to a faster, retractable aircraft. The Mooney instructor who did my BFR a year ago says I am ready because of how he remembers me flying during my BFR and since I have made it through all the tailwheel time without a ground loop(for whatever that is worth.) of course I am rusty sice that BFR, so he doesn't know my flying skill or lack thereof at this point.

I was comfortable that I was ready to move up to the Mooney until today.. CAP had been courting me to come back to CAP and take my first Form 5 flight. I went for a familiarization flight today. I have never flown a 172 before which is no big deal. The panel layout and everything was much different to what I am used to, so I was trying to get used to where everything was located. Normally, no big deal. Throw in, however that the wind was variable and from 12 to 20 gusting to 25. It was 2:00 in the afternoon and really rougher air than I am accustomed to. Since I fly tailwheel I just don't fly in winds like that especially if there is much of a crosswind component.

The check pilot kept wanting me to land by crabbing with the rudder and straightening at the last second, but that is just not what I am used to. I land by keeping the plane parallel with the runway using the rudder and on the centerline with the ailerons. I had lots of trouble getting decent landings although I don't think I was ever in any serious danger, only the landings were not at all graceful.

Yesterday morning I went flying in my 140 in reasonably good conditions. I didn't do the best flying of my life, but I didn't fly too bad although I know I have been sharper in the past.

Okay, all that said, I really felt rusty and not very confident after today's flight. Am I making a mistake stepping up to a Mooney at this point? My thinking is that even if I spend a bunch of duel hours in the Mooney to get back in the saddle again, surely it won't be the ordeal that I went through to get my private in the taildragger.

So all you CFI's and old salt pilots, what say you?

Thanks in advance for your comments and advice.
 
Sorry about your wife. What a bummer, day before your retirement.

You're not making a mistake. Sounds like you are just rusty as you admit. So fly more to get back up to speed. Your CFI that you mention working with on the Mooney will be a big help. You can do it, and you should.

Your crosswind technique sounds good to me if you have a wing down into the wind, and use rudder to tract straight with the runway. Is that how you're doing it?

Get that Mooney and go see the country! Best of luck.
 
Sorry for your loss. Talk about bad timing...

Some old salt once said, "if you enjoy flying, why would you ever want to go fast?" I love my Luscombe, but sometimes wish for something faster. I say go for the Mooney, but keep the 140 for fun flying. Your skills will return. Just keep at it.
 
Thanks for the encouragement MS! Yes that is how I land. I learned that from a John and Martha video when I took flying lessons the first time in 1991.
 
Thanks N659HB!

I have tossed and turned over whether or not to keep Miss Piggy. The biggest hurdle is the fact that hangars are near impossible to get around here. The 140 is a ragwing so I won't put it outside. The Mooney is freshly painted, new glass and has always been hangared so I refuse to put it out too. Also, I am not in bad financial health, but the thought of hangaring, annualling and insuring two planes is just difficult to justify.
 
Thanks for the encouragement MS! Yes that is how I land. I learned that from a John and Martha video when I took flying lessons the first time in 1991.

That's how I learned it, and teach it. Be sweet to have that Mooney for going places, and the 140 for local fun flying as 659HB said!
 
Sorry for your loss. Life has a way of changing things for us.

I say have some fun, you deserve it after working a full career. Surely you can knock the rust off. Could you get some Mooney time before buying to see if you even like it?

Best...
 
Is the 140 rentable to select tailwheel add-on students to pay for it's upkeep maybe?
 
There are procedures and there are techniques. Procedures are dictated by the POH; techniques differ between pilots and instructors. Tell the "kick it out" instructor that that is not the way you do things and to find somewhere else where you need help.

Bob Gardner
 
So sorry for your loss! How life changes our plans.

I have no doubt that you can knock the rust off and fly a Mooney. The bigger question is "Do you want to?" Is traveling something you want to do without your wife or was it something the two of you wanted to do together? (Not the these are mutually exclusive...)

If you still want to travel, get the Mooney, knock the rust off and go for it! If you don't want to travel (yet), keep flying Miss Piggy. She's lovely plane.

John
 
Thanks Bob! Yeah, I suppose there are times that I should speak up.


Yes, there are things I could do in order to keep the 140 and actually I could afford to keep it without such revenue producing plans, but the fact remains that there is no hangar available for it.

Matt, I have tried to find somewhere to get Mooney time, but I am in the boondocks and haven't found such an opportunity. I have been smitten with the simplicity and efficiency of the Mooney sice I took flying lessons in the early nineties. There is indeed a possibility that I might not like it when I get it.
 
Rust goes away really fast. Been there done that. You will have no problem flying a mooney. Go for it, get back in the saddle.
 
Yes John I do still want to travel. I have people to visit with and places to see. Makes for a good excuse to fly.
 
Thanks Bob! Yeah, I suppose there are times that I should speak up.


Yes, there are things I could do in order to keep the 140 and actually I could afford to keep it without such revenue producing plans, but the fact remains that there is no hangar available for it.

Matt, I have tried to find somewhere to get Mooney time, but I am in the boondocks and haven't found such an opportunity. I have been smitten with the simplicity and efficiency of the Moon

Wish I had one to offer.....

Good luck with the decision. If it's not a hardship for you, buy it in a way that it would be easy or reasonable to sell later and move forward. Maybe you can test own it with no worries.
 
What I am reading here is very encouraging. I expect to be negotiating for the Mooney in a few days. I had already made the decision to make an offer before I flew today. I think today was just a wake up call reminding me that I need to change priorities and fit, or even force fit, flying into my schedule for a while. I will fly the 140 as much as possible until the Mooney gets here.

All of your comments and advice are greatly appreciated. Please keep them coming.
 
One of your concerns seems to be hangar availability. Where I'm at, there are a bucket full of small airports with cheap hangars. Could you keep the 140 a short drive away if you get the Mooney?
 
Which model Mooney are you looking at?

As a longtime Mooney owner/pilot I can tell you they're hard to beat for serious travel.

Good luck!
 
I have exhausted all known opportunities for a hangar. I actually hangar in Oklahoma and live in Texas, a 45 minute drive. That is one reason I haven't gotten flight time. I was on that hangar list about three years. I have been on other hangar lists in the area for five years and still waiting. There is a possibility that I will get another hangar in the next three months, but the possibility is slim.

My current hangar is a rectangle. There is a small chance that since one is low wing and the other high wing, that I can remove my 64 Galaxie 500 Fastback out of there and shoe horn both planes in the hangar. Not likely though.
 
Get the Mooney. Hire a proficient Mooney CFI and by the time you get your Complex Endorsement and finish your insurance dual, you'll be proficient, too.

It's a great way to go places and see people. If you can swing keeping the 140, too, you'll be prepared for most any type of flying.
 
I have exhausted all known opportunities for a hangar. I actually hangar in Oklahoma and live in Texas, a 45 minute drive. That is one reason I haven't gotten flight time. I was on that hangar list about three years. I have been on other hangar lists in the area for five years and still waiting. There is a possibility that I will get another hangar in the next three months, but the possibility is slim.

My current hangar is a rectangle. There is a small chance that since one is low wing and the other high wing, that I can remove my 64 Galaxie 500 Fastback out of there and shoe horn both planes in the hangar. Not likely though.

Make a scale drawing if the hangar. Take the 3-view page of your Owners Manuals and photocopy them at the same scale. Push them around in the drawing to see if they fit. I once sheltered from a storm in a community hangar by backing in between two Cessnas whose wingtips weren't much more than a foot apart. It worked!
 
Joe, it is an M20C. A fabulous example with a 250 hour factory reman engine, new prop at the same time, lots of speed mods with 201cowling, very nice King panel with a 430, glide slope and DME, beautifully maintained and hangared.
 
You could hangar that 140 here for $75 a month. What about a hopped up Swift since you're used to tailwheels?
 
So very sorry to hear about your wife, certainly not the way anybody wants to begin their retirement. My condolences to you. :(

Sounds like you have a great plan to continue your aviation adventures. Get some good quality dual instruction in the Mooney and it will be just like you never left off. No harm in stepping up to a slicker machine as long as your compentent for it.
Personally, I think the 140 would be just as exciting as the Mooney, but that's just me! ;)

Good luck and keep us posted!!
 
that I can remove my 64 Galaxie 500 Fastback out of there and shoe horn both planes in the hangar. Not likely though.

Wow, I actually saw a restored '64 Galaxie 500 today, not sure if it was a fastback. Drove by a local custom car on the way to a store and saw it sitting outside w/ a couple early Mustangs.
 
Where are my manners. I should have offered my hangar up here when you get bored with one or the other. Just gotta leave me the keys. :)
 
So very sorry to hear about your wife, certainly not the way anybody wants to begin their retirement. My condolences to you. :(

Sounds like you have a great plan to continue your aviation adventures. Get some good quality dual instruction in the Mooney and it will be just like you never left off. No harm in stepping up to a slicker machine as long as your compentent for it.
Personally, I think the 140 would be just as exciting as the Mooney, but that's just me! ;)

Good luck and keep us posted!!

On the runway, the 140 can indeed be exciting sometimes. So far I have kept the nose in the front with some exciting, sort of close calls along the way.

The area where the 140 loses to the Mooney is speed, luggage capacity and fuel efficiency.
 
@MBDiagMan I remember your 2011 posts and I'm very sorry for your loss. Condolences.

Others have already said it, but the landing rust will knock off relatively quickly. Your feet are already moving faster than most Cessna tricycle drivers anyway, considering that you have the 140.

I'd love to see you able to keep both aircraft, but don't become "airplane rich and otherwise broke" for it.

The M20C is a solid little traveling performer and flies on almost as little fuel as the 140. You'll enjoy it. The systems are simple. Find a good Mooney mechanic to look over everything before committing to buy. If the gut feel Master Caution light comes on, just walk away -- you already have Miss Piggy.

Any thoughts of adding an Instrument rating to go with the new Mooney? Could be a fun challenge if you end up liking it.

As far as the CAP instructor goes, I don't know why so many instructors teach as if there's only one crosswind technique out there, and their way is the right way... that's just not correct. Stick it where you want it tracking straight just like the 140... it doesn't matter how you got there. Whatever it takes.

The Mooney doesn't have a LOT of luggage capability -- but enough. Look over the POH and the W&B numbers.
 
Sorry to hear about your loss... :( ... and welcome back after these tough times.

I also join the crowd that tells you to buy the Mooney. If you can keep the 140, do it. We have a Mooney since August 2016 and think about getting an additional plane to fly locally (e.g. in the evening after work or to close by pancake breakfasts). Don't get me wrong - we love our M20E, especially as we love to travel and she brings us places fast. :D

You were rusty when you flew the 172 for the first time, in conditions you were not used to. Don't beat yourself over it and fly in calm conditions until you feel more comfortable again. You will have to do some transition training anyway if you buy the Mooney - fly with an instructor until you feel ready.

We are looking forward to hearing about your adventures with the Mooney and / or 140.
 
Condolences... :(

Get the Mooney. I am just a low time PPL and got my Mooney with just under 60 total hours. It is a M20D that was converted to retract and CS prop, basically a C. It is so fun to fly! While you're at it if you haven't yet, head over to the Mooneyspace forums. A great bunch of folks over there.
 
Thanks for the further replies and encouragement.

I was beginning my pursuit of an instrument rating before my wife died. I was making a 75 on the practice written test, but my wife died and I haven't continued studying. My 140 has a custom panel with Sixpack, center stack, dual VOR with glide slope and marker beacon. If I could keep it, it would take a lot less fuel to finish my IR. My plan was to get the written and then fly my butt off until finished. Again, no hangars available. The plan won't change, I just feel like I need to pass the written first.

I have found Mooneyspace and have been learning quite a lot there although I have yet to post there. The Mooney I have found has been maintained by Dugosh in Kerrville for the last 32 years and is in beautiful shape with clean logs. I guess the only wild card is the fuel tanks. My local Mooney mechanic that I know well is calling Dugosh about the plane and I am trying to find out more about the tank history.

It is nice to be back here. With my life change causing me to be away, I had forgotten how good the folks on this forum are.
 
@MBDiagMan I remember your 2011 posts and I'm very sorry for your loss. Condolences.

Others have already said it, but the landing rust will knock off relatively quickly. Your feet are already moving faster than most Cessna tricycle drivers anyway, considering that you have the 140.

I'd love to see you able to keep both aircraft, but don't become "airplane rich and otherwise broke" for it.

The M20C is a solid little traveling performer and flies on almost as little fuel as the 140. You'll enjoy it. The systems are simple. Find a good Mooney mechanic to look over everything before committing to buy. If the gut feel Master Caution light comes on, just walk away -- you already have Miss Piggy.

Any thoughts of adding an Instrument rating to go with the new Mooney? Could be a fun challenge if you end up liking it.

As far as the CAP instructor goes, I don't know why so many instructors teach as if there's only one crosswind technique out there, and their way is the right way... that's just not correct. Stick it where you want it tracking straight just like the 140... it doesn't matter how you got there. Whatever it takes.

The Mooney doesn't have a LOT of luggage capability -- but enough. Look over the POH and the W&B numbers.
As a qualified AP, I think I know where the CAP instructor is coming from. Low wing is pretty unpleasant in the back seat, and a photographer is likely to be queasy, especially in gusty winds.
 
I have nothing on the airplane side to add, except that there is some solid advice above.

Condolences on the loss of your wife. Life does deliver some rough curve balls sometimes. Getting the Mooney and traveling may help smooth out some of the rough spots
 
Sorry about your loss. Hopefully your love of aviation will in some way will bring you a little happiness during your retirement. Blue skies!!
 
As a qualified AP, I think I know where the CAP instructor is coming from. Low wing is pretty unpleasant in the back seat, and a photographer is likely to be queasy, especially in gusty winds.

That makes sense MAK! I wish he would have told me that. We are preparing for the Texas flooding season which will produce lots of photography missions.
 
Thanks for the further replies and encouragement.

I was beginning my pursuit of an instrument rating before my wife died. I was making a 75 on the practice written test, but my wife died and I haven't continued studying. My 140 has a custom panel with Sixpack, center stack, dual VOR with glide slope and marker beacon. If I could keep it, it would take a lot less fuel to finish my IR. My plan was to get the written and then fly my butt off until finished. Again, no hangars available. The plan won't change, I just feel like I need to pass the written first.

[snip]

As for the written, I fought with studying off and on for several years. I finally took a two day intensive "pass the test" class and passed with an 83. I'm now more than 1/2 way through the flying and trying to get ready for the oral. I recommend the focus of the "pass the test" class. I've got several self study packages but couldn't make myself focus for long enough to get it done.

John
 
Thanks John! Yes, they have a weekend class at Addison which is an easy flight from here. I had forgotten about it, so thanks for reminding me.
 
Thanks John! Yes, they have a weekend class at Addison which is an easy flight from here. I had forgotten about it, so thanks for reminding me.
It sure worked for me.
 
Sorry to hear about your loss.

Yes, it's always time to move up to a faster plane. :D
 
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