Tie Down Ropes Dangerous? Yes!

U

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I am a new Student with just 7.2hrs to be exact. I did my flight today. Wonderful day..felt really good about things. Taxied back and making our turn to park, we crossed over the tail tie down rope within a split second was sucked up into the prop, stopping the engine dead. Once it registered with my CFI what had happened his jaw was on the floor. He quickly secured the panel. We climbed out to find the broken tie down rope wedged in tight behind the fiberglass spinner. A tiny hair-line 'fracture' in the gel coat on the spinner rear edge. It took a few minutes for him to get the rope out of it though. The Prop appeared fine thankfully but the plane has now been removed from service pending inspection and pretty much took me out of action for this weekend’s training, potentially longer depending on what they find. (Tire pressures checked fine, Nose gear height appeared normal and I didnt see any fluid leaks, etc. But I am not a professional aircraft mechanic)

My CFI who I have great respect for seemed pretty shocked and said he'd never seen that happen before. As we were clearing our fouled prop.. a Cirrus had crossed his line without issue and a ATP student and his CFI has crossed theirs without incident as well.

I was waiting for my instructor to tell me to get lost, I feel totally awful about the whole thing. Glad the rope didnt part and send a piece hurling into neighboring aircraft or anyone on the ramp for that matter. I've never received instruction on not crossing over them and I would bet a lot of pilots have seen it/done it without thinking about it as well.

In my short time I don’t claim to much of anything (yet) but I know it's a really miserable feeling to be the guy in the left seat when equipment gets damaged.

Please secure those tie-downs!

Be Well,
~ A very embarrassed Student.
 
Thanks for the reminder.

I was taught early on in primary training that when I taxied within range of a tiedown rope, I should give a burst of power first while still out of range of the rope, and then pull the engine all the way to idle and let the plane coast over the rope.

It's worked so far. :dunno:
 
You will learn in the future that the prop is capable of picking up a great deal of debris and stuff off the ground. I've watched towbars sucked up and destroyed along with plastic signs hung on fences near runup areas and all manner of other FOD. Don't taxi over anything that isn't nailed down tight and don't assume something is too heavy to get picked up. I remember seeing a pair of wheel chocks pulled into a prop at the Merced fly-in many years back.....it was a Beech 18 and it was also his chocks. Ruined a lovely polished Ham Standard prop and scared the hell out of all of us nearby. The remains of one chock flew over my buddies Bellanca Cruisemaster and landed between us and a nice Cessna 180....lucky miss.

Good luck with your lessons....they never really end if you keep your eyes open.

Frank
 
I just don't taxi over ropes. If there is no way to avoid taxing over it I shut down and pull it by hand. Hell, I could use the exercise.

I also teach my students to not taxi over anything that you could pickup with your hand.

Sorry you had this experience - learn from it. This really isn't your fault. The fault is on your instructor.
 
stopping the engine dead

Are they doing a sudden stoppage inspection? It sounds like one of those things that I hope you have insurance. A sudden stoppage inspection is many thousands.
 
bluee said:
stopping the engine dead

Are they doing a sudden stoppage inspection? It sounds like one of those things that I hope you have insurance. A sudden stoppage inspection is many thousands.
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...as well as mandatory by AD for the described damage if it's a Lycoming. However, the OP said...
Unregistered said:
...the plane has now been removed from service pending inspection
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...so it sounds like they are doing the right thing.
 
Ron Levy said:
...as well as mandatory by AD for the described damage if it's a Lycoming. However, the OP said...
...so it sounds like they are doing the right thing.
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Yup..... there goes the flight schools profit for the week, I understand the parts to comply with the AD are in shore supply, (as in back ordered)

If the flight school turns tht into the insurance company and the engine any where near the TBO it will cost the flight school a new engine.

Of course if it's a Cont. it a look see, and a run up, and you are good to go.
 
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jesse said:
I just don't taxi over ropes. If there is no way to avoid taxing over it I shut down and pull it by hand. Hell, I could use the exercise.

I also teach my students to not taxi over anything that you could pickup with your hand.

Sorry you had this experience - learn from it. This really isn't your fault. The fault is on your instructor.
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Very Smart......
 
Tom-D said:
Yup..... there goes the flight schools profit for the week, I understand the parts to comply with the AD are in shore supply, (as in back ordered)
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Insurance should cover the inspection and any parts needed to comply with the AD.

If the flight school turns tht into the insurance company and the engine any where near the TBO it will cost the flight school a new engine.
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The insurance company should cover the mandatory inspection and damage attributable to the prop strike. If the engine is close to overhaul, and an overhaul is desired, the insurer should prorate anything beyond the damge-related costs based on mfr's recommended TBO.
 
I don't let our guys leave ropes lying around on the ramp. They can destroy a lot of stuff if they get sucked up. The OP's crank could be bent or cracked and other stuff might have suffered.

And Continentals, Tom, can suffer too. I had a Continental crankshaft break, in flight, due to a crack caused by a propstrike somewhere in its past. No engine is idiot-proof, and if someone does build one, someone else will come up with a better idiot.

Dan
 
Curious...in that kind of situation, is the CFI responsible, or the student? The op said he has 7 hours, that's pre-solo. I would be surprised if he is responsible for that.
 
bluee said:
Curious...in that kind of situation, is the CFI responsible, or the student? The op said he has 7 hours, that's pre-solo. I would be surprised if he is responsible for that.
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It's on the head of the PIC, i.e., the CFI. That's the principal reason non-owned ("renter's") insurance is not necessary until you solo.
 
I think it was hour one my CFI demonstrated taxiing back into the parking spot, cautioning, "Don't drive over the tie-down ropes..."

I do the same, and am heartily glad, though this is the first such bad occurrence I've heard of.

:dunno:
 
I don't usually do it, but I'll be big enough to admit I've gotten away with it a few times in just under 400 hours.

For the OP, your CFI looked shocked because they were PIC. (S)he is on the hook for the insurance deductible.

You on the other hand, just got a lesson in how fast a great day can go bad in aviation. Get renter's insurance (numerous threads here and elsewhere on the topic) and "go forth and sin no more"!

A great reminder for all of us. FOD is FOD, no matter if it's a rope or a rock. Don't taxi over things. That big windmill can suck enough air through itself to drag over 2000 lbs of airplane, pilots, and stuff UPward into the sky (well, kinda).

Treat the big spinning blades with great respect.

Wingtips too. Around the 300 hour mark I tapped a wingtip into a hangar door pushing an airplane in and scuffed an inch of paint off the fiberglass. I was a mixture of sad, scared, and ticked off all at the same time. No real damage, but I was not happy.

We found some hangar rash we think happened during our Annual Inspection today during pre-flight too, which we're not happy about. Right outboard edge of the horizontal stab is missing a couple inches of paint and there's a ding. Not cool. May also be no way to prove where/when it happened. The shop we have liked for our Annuals has now done two things that seemed slightly "careless" and we're talking seriously about going somewhere else next year. On the flip side, when we explained that we think a loose wheel pant bolt cause our wheel pant damage last year, they're hunting for parts to fix the door that was broken.

Stuff happens. We just don't think it'll ever happen to US. Be careful out there!
 
Dan Thomas said:
And Continentals, Tom, can suffer too.
Dan
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Didn't mean to imply they couldn't be hurt, just they have no AD. you are legal to fly as soon as the rope is clear.

what's legal isn't always safe.
 
Lawreston said:
If I'm tied down on a ramp, when I release the ropes I make it a habit to coil the ropes tightly around the eyelets, never leaving an extended rope on the tarmac.

HR
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Ditch the ropes and use ratchet buckles, roll them up and take them with you.

If you are always in the same spot, get a ramp box and use it to secure your stuff like oil, tie downs, and cleaning gear.

These work great, lock them down to a padeye.

http://www.buyautotruckaccessories.com/product.cfm/cf-bin/pn.jobox-gang-box/
 
OP great post and great reminder! Thanks,

TMetzinger said:
That's the first time I've ever heard of that happening. I've taxied across ropes before. Never again!
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I have too Tim. Did it all the time in the busy 141 flight school I learned at we were even taught to pull in to the spot on a 45 and use differential breaking to spin it around. I did always wonder about that and now I know so its a good lesson.

Tom-D said:
Ditch the ropes and use ratchet buckles, roll them up and take them with you.

If you are always in the same spot, get a ramp box and use it to secure your stuff like oil, tie downs, and cleaning gear.

These work great, lock them down to a padeye.

http://www.buyautotruckaccessories.com/product.cfm/cf-bin/pn.jobox-gang-box/
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Thats a good idea Tom and If I had a plane I'd probably do that. It really doesn't matter so much for back in spaces and the real issue is probably on transient spots. But I agree those ratchet straps are great.
 
Unregistered said:
In my short time I don’t claim to much of anything (yet) but I know it's a really miserable feeling to be the guy in the left seat when equipment gets damaged.

Please secure those tie-downs!
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I'm sorry this happened to you, but thanks so much for posting your cautionary tale. A CFI directed me to taxi over a tail tie-down a few times during my training and said it was safe. Now I'll never do it again!

Good luck with your flight training.

Paul
 
What a great thread! Never thought about it, but I will now. Thanks to the OP, good luck with the aviating.
 
Saw the aftermath of a newly painted twin powering out of the chocks sucking up a tie down chain. The chain whipped around and ruined the paint job, the prop and the engine on one side. That was one that wasn't gonna buff out!
 
Witmo said:
Saw the aftermath of a newly painted twin powering out of the chocks sucking up a tie down chain. The chain whipped around and ruined the paint job, the prop and the engine on one side. That was one that wasn't gonna buff out!
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A twin has a much greater chance of snagging a tie down line with a prop and not just because there are two props. I've found it almost impossible to taxi into a parking spot that already has tiedowns in place because they tend to be situated pretty much right where my engines must pass over if I'm lined up. In the past I've used the burst of power then glide at idle but even that seems a bit scary given the stories in this thread. Compounding the issue is that it's nearly impossible for one person to move my airplane on the ground by hand with a conventional towbar. I recently purchased a Redline towbar with "Stiffy" attachment which allows me to move the plane by ratcheting the nosewheel. I think I'll be using that more often to push the plane back into a parking spot.
 
I do this all the time, without any issue. Everytime I do, I have wondered whether it could be picked up (no CFI i've flown with has mentioned it as a possibility). Now I know that it can, I will never do it again.

Great post man!
 
We do this EVERYTIME we pull an airplane into a parking space. I wonder if the FBO (school) has evaluated this policy. The thought of this has never occurred to me and perhaps never to them either.
 
Did a web search and found an incident on this web site:

http://www.ndcap.us/dept/safety_alert.htm

"While taxiing out to fly an AFROTC Cadet Orientation flight, the pilot taxied across a parking row instead of following the taxiway. He accelerated while crossing over a tiedown rope and it was picked up by the prop. Before the engine could be stopped, the tiedown rope had damaged the prop, spinner, bulkhead and the lower cowl.

Normally, a pilot can taxi into a parking spot over a tiedown rope without the prop picking it up. This is because the aircraft is close to idle power and slowing down. To increase power and accelerate through a tiedown area is just asking for trouble. There are numerous hazards in a parking area - chocks, grounding wires, ropes, tiedown cables, people and other aircraft. It may take a little longer to taxi on the taxiway, but you can feel confident that you'll encounter fewer hazards."

(A bunch of other prop strike incidents on that web page that show some things to be wary of.)

The tie-downs used for the airplanes at the field I fly out of are metal chains with S hooks on the ends. While anything is possible, I'm not too worried about one of those getting picked up by a prop.
 
wow, definitely something i'm going to be mindful of from now on. first two flights, my cfi taxied us into the parking spot, but that was because he was more worried about the wingtip than the prop picking something up. but at the conclusion of the last flight, he had me power through the spot and go around the taxi area again to get a little more practice controlling the plane at taxi. i'm definitely evaluating that method of operation with tighter scrutiny from now on.
 
I've personally seen a tie-down get picked up and hit by the prop, and I usually pull the mixture and coast into a tie-down spot for that reason.
 
Unregistered said:
I am a new Student with just 7.2hrs to be exact. I did my flight today. Wonderful day..felt really good about things. Taxied back and making our turn to park, we crossed over the tail tie down rope within a split second was sucked up into the prop, stopping the engine dead. Once it registered with my CFI what had happened his jaw was on the floor. He quickly secured the panel. We climbed out to find the broken tie down rope wedged in tight behind the fiberglass spinner. A tiny hair-line 'fracture' in the gel coat on the spinner rear edge. It took a few minutes for him to get the rope out of it though. The Prop appeared fine thankfully but the plane has now been removed from service pending inspection and pretty much took me out of action for this weekend’s training, potentially longer depending on what they find. (Tire pressures checked fine, Nose gear height appeared normal and I didnt see any fluid leaks, etc. But I am not a professional aircraft mechanic)

My CFI who I have great respect for seemed pretty shocked and said he'd never seen that happen before. As we were clearing our fouled prop.. a Cirrus had crossed his line without issue and a ATP student and his CFI has crossed theirs without incident as well.

I was waiting for my instructor to tell me to get lost, I feel totally awful about the whole thing. Glad the rope didnt part and send a piece hurling into neighboring aircraft or anyone on the ramp for that matter. I've never received instruction on not crossing over them and I would bet a lot of pilots have seen it/done it without thinking about it as well.

In my short time I don’t claim to much of anything (yet) but I know it's a really miserable feeling to be the guy in the left seat when equipment gets damaged.

Please secure those tie-downs!

Be Well,
~ A very embarrassed Student.
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The plane is gonna be out for a long time. Sudden engine stoppage is a huge deal and requires and big engine inspection
 
All the airports that I have flown into use chains... I wouldn't expect to be pulled into a Cessna 150's 100hp prop, but if one did, I'm sure it would be uuuuugly.
 
mcarlini said:
All the airports that I have flown into use chains... I wouldn't expect to be pulled into a Cessna 150's 100hp prop, but if one did, I'm sure it would be uuuuugly.
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Really? Where are you based? Here in the Midwest, there are VERY few places with chains.

I've seen chains at Aberdeen, SD and Wall, SD but I can't think of any closer than that.
 
We have chains all over the place out here. Usually attached to cables that have to be pulled up with your foot to get some tension on them.

KBJC has trucker chains and chain binders. Ha. Kidding. But the wind up there... Whew.

And I can't find my copy of the old postcard, "Chaining up to Fly the Rockies" which had some dude in cold weather gear wrapping a chain around a prop.

It's starting to bug me. It's probably on one of the virtual machines... Great postcard.
 
denverpilot said:
And I can't find my copy of the old postcard, "Chaining up to Fly the Rockies" which had some dude in cold weather gear wrapping a chain around a prop.
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:rofl:

Now the real question is, will his airplane take off from a snow-covered treadmill? :D

What if I have an engine failure and land on I-70 west of Denver between September 1st and May 31st and don't have chains aboard, will they write me a ticket? ;)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
:rofl:

Now the real question is, will his airplane take off from a snow-covered treadmill? :D
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If the treadmill is snow-covered then I assume it's not spinning. Yes.
flyingcheesehead said:
What if I have an engine failure and land on I-70 west of Denver between September 1st and May 31st and don't have chains aboard, will they write me a ticket? ;)
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Not if you just land. If you taxi, then yes ... unless you have 4WD or AWD. Since the prop drives the plane and the plane drives all the wheels, you have AWD. Check vehicle width before attempting to negotiate Eisenhower tunnel, however. You may have to detour over Loveland Pass with the HC guys.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Really? Where are you based? Here in the Midwest, there are VERY few places with chains.

I've seen chains at Aberdeen, SD and Wall, SD but I can't think of any closer than that.
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Im over on the west coast in Oregon. As I said, ive never had a problem with chains and props. However, rusty chains at coastal airports really ruin clothing :(
 
mcarlini said:
However, rusty chains at coastal airports really ruin clothing :(
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Chains are also really bad for your plane. No give at all means that rocking and swaying stops instantly at the end of range, and all the momentum gets transferred to the plane structure. So your plane "gives", not the rope.
Now at KAPA where the chains are connected to a long cable secured to the ground at intervals, the cable "gives", so it's not so bad.

Also, chains are a stress riser, focusing all the force on an infinitesimally small area of the tiedown ring where the two pieces of curved metal (ring and chain) contact one another. Lots of broken tiedown rings out there from use of chains.
With the KAPA chain to cable system, I could put a piece of rope between the chain and tiedown ring.
 
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