This might be a dumb question...

Palamedes

Palamedes

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Jason Ellis
I'm very new to the whole general aviation thing so forgive any dumb questions please.

I'm still learning and of course I'm browsing the aircraft sales sites and magazines dreaming.. I noticed that there are quite a lot of older aircraft that are very reasonably priced and it made me wonder;

Can you put modern "glass cockpit" avionics in an older aircraft?

For example; Could you put a G1000 or iEFIS glass cockpit into a a '65 Piper Warrior?

Not saying I would, I'm just wondering if its possible and what the pro's and con's be of doing such a thing?
 
Palamedes said:
I'm very new to the whole general aviation thing so forgive any dumb questions please.

I'm still learning and of course I'm browsing the aircraft sales sites and magazines dreaming.. I noticed that there are quite a lot of older aircraft that are very reasonably priced and it made me wonder;

Can you put modern "glass cockpit" avionics in an older aircraft?

For example; Could you put a G1000 or iEFIS glass cockpit into a a '65 Piper Warrior?

Not saying I would, I'm just wondering if its possible and what the pro's and con's be of doing such a thing?
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If you have the money, you can do anything you want.

There are glass retrofits out there, like:

http://www.aspenavionics.com/products/general-aviation/

Oh, and pros and cons:
Pros: Awesome, more reliable than older vacuum powered instruments, offers better situational awareness and increased safety

Cons: Expensive, installation and components could potentially cost 3/4 ++ of the airframe value, hard to get your money back when you sell, even then may take a long time because not everyone is looking for whiz bang wow factor at a premium price in that sort of airplane.
 
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Okay so there is nothing limiting in the aircraft itself... electrical issues, bus amperage, sockets, housings and mounts, etc...
 
Henning on this board put a G600 I think in his 310.

The only dumb question is the one you don't ask.
 
Okay interesting.. so the main issue it seems like is cost.. These units are very expensive..

What about slightly less expensive iEFIS? that starts getting into some kind of licensing or rating for the aircraft right?
 
Okay so if you put a piece of avionics that is not certified in a plane that is certified, it effectively cancels the planes cert I assume.. So does the plane go to an experimental status at that point?

Again this is all theory and me learning.. I have zero plans to do any of this sort.. its just interesting..
 
DavidWhite said:
Henning on this board put a G600 I think in his 310.
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And, of course, there's this 1969 Piper Comanche 260 turbo owned by Av Shiloh:

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bartmc said:
You could buy about 4 1965 Cherokee's for the electronics in that panel.
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Yeah, but they'd still be slow and you could still only fly one at a time...

If you're gonna do an install like that, it really only makes sense if you're doing it to your "forever airplane," the one that you're gonna fly until the first shovel of dirt hits your face.

Or, if you just have a lot of money burning a hole in your pocket. But in that case, just give it to me. :D
 
bartmc said:
No, the plane is then unairworthy and not legally flyable unless you have an Approved 337 (government paperwork) for the avionics install, something like an uncertified Dynon EFIS probably won't be issued a 337 for a certified plane. In other words it's highly unlikely that you could legally do it.
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AH! Okay.. So then the question begs, how is it legal for a home built plane to use them? I'm completely ignorant of all this..

I know the fellow that lives down the road has an RV10 (I think) he home built.. very nice airplane from all the pictures.. and I believe he has iEFIS in it.
 
I have seen a 67 Cherokee 180 with a 40k upgrade. Very impressive but you still have an old airframe. The upgrade was an aspen ,garmin 530 GDP 69, stec 30 auto pilot with altitude hold ,GPS steering. Go for it if you are going to keep the airplane for a while.
 
Palamedes said:
I'm very new to the whole general aviation thing so forgive any dumb questions please.

I'm still learning and of course I'm browsing the aircraft sales sites and magazines dreaming.. I noticed that there are quite a lot of older aircraft that are very reasonably priced and it made me wonder;

Can you put modern "glass cockpit" avionics in an older aircraft?

For example; Could you put a G1000 or iEFIS glass cockpit into a a '65 Piper Warrior?

Not saying I would, I'm just wondering if its possible and what the pro's and con's be of doing such a thing?
Click to expand...


If you're going to do that, why not start with a newer airframe? As someone wiser than I once pointed out, sometimes when you put a lot of money in a cheap old dog of an airplane, you wind up with an expensive old dog wearing a dress.
 
I think the technical term for that is "polishing a t**d."

Modern avionics are a more than a bit overhyped. You can fly a 1965 airplane completely safely VFR with working 1965 avionics. Heck, people still fly Piper Cubs and even Stearmans around. Those don't even have electrical systems, let alone fancy avionics.
 
FormerHangie said:
If you're going to do that, why not start with a newer airframe? As someone wiser than I once pointed out, sometimes when you put a lot of money in a cheap old dog of an airplane, you wind up with an expensive old dog wearing a dress.
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Seems like that makes more sense and this thread has gone a long way to explain exactly why..

Thanks all =)
 
The G500 is coming down in price and is starting to eat up Aspens little head start. It just got approved for up to 6000lbs airframes, so that's a nice development. Before that I'd be confined to the more expensive G600 for my aircraft, so I'm seriously considering the G500 now. However, it's probably another 2-3 years before I'll get to that, so by that time other things could have changed. These things will continue to get cheaper.
 
Palamedes said:
I'm very new to the whole general aviation thing so forgive any dumb questions please.

I'm still learning and of course I'm browsing the aircraft sales sites and magazines dreaming.. I noticed that there are quite a lot of older aircraft that are very reasonably priced and it made me wonder;

Can you put modern "glass cockpit" avionics in an older aircraft?

For example; Could you put a G1000 or iEFIS glass cockpit into a a '65 Piper Warrior?

Not saying I would, I'm just wondering if its possible and what the pro's and con's be of doing such a thing?
Click to expand...

Not the 1000, that is OEM, however I have the G-500 in my 1960 310, so the answer in general is yes.
 
Garmin won't sell G1000s as retrofits, but they sell others and there are good other options (avidyne, etc...).
 
How long before Garmen starts putting the G1000 out for retrofits I wonder? Its bound to happen eventually..
 
Palamedes said:
How long before Garmen starts putting the G1000 out for retrofits I wonder? Its bound to happen eventually..
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Unlikely, I think. As I understand it, with the G1000, there's too much integration with the airframe to do that aftermarket without virtually disassembling the airplane and then putting it back together in a significantly altered fashion. OTOH, the G500/600 were designed to be retrofittable, and if you fly with both systems, you'll see that the G500 provides virtually all the benefits of the G1000 other than having all your eggs in one electronic basket -- and I'm not at all sure that's a negative.
 
Palamedes said:
How long before Garmen starts putting the G1000 out for retrofits I wonder? Its bound to happen eventually..
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I doubt ever, but when the Pt 23 rewrite goes through you'll be able to use the G-900x which will get you the same thing.
 
MAKG1 said:
I think the technical term for that is "polishing a t**d."

Modern avionics are a more than a bit overhyped. You can fly a 1965 airplane completely safely VFR with working 1965 avionics. Heck, people still fly Piper Cubs and even Stearmans around. Those don't even have electrical systems, let alone fancy avionics.
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People put $50k in avionics in a 40 year old bird because you can no longer buy a new version of it. The Cessna 210 is a great example of an airframe worth updating with new gizmos. On the other hand, installing a G500 in a '65 Cherokee 140 may not be the best investment.
 
Brad Z said:
People put $50k in avionics in a 40 year old bird because you can no longer buy a new version of it. The Cessna 210 is a great example of an airframe worth updating with new gizmos. On the other hand, installing a G500 in a '65 Cherokee 140 may not be the best investment.
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Put a G-500 and a 650 in a 65 Cherokee 140, you now have a glass panel trainer for $50k. What glass panel trainer can you buy for $50k?
 
The guy in the hangar next to mine has a 172RG. He's put so much retrofit digital stuff in it that we call it "RoboPlane." It makes sense for him, because that's his "forever" plane, he does a lot of XC and the WX doesn't always cooperate.
 
I have put more money in Avionics in the Navion than I paid for the airframe originally and I don't have a glass panel.
 
Ron Levy said:
The MGL iEFIS is legal as a primary instrument replacement only in Experimental and Light Sport Aircraft.
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I'm not sure, but one might also be able to buy a plane registered in some other country with presumably looser rules. There is a Dynon in the Piper Tomahawk in this video of a plane in El Salvador, and according to a comment by the video uploader, they also have a C-152 that has a Dynon installed. It might not be considered primary flight instruments, which may be why they are allowed:

 
Yes, you can put some kind of glass cockpit avionics in most aircraft types. As others have said, it's a cost vs. resale value issue. That's why many older planes will never see it.



Palamedes said:
I'm very new to the whole general aviation thing so forgive any dumb questions please.

I'm still learning and of course I'm browsing the aircraft sales sites and magazines dreaming.. I noticed that there are quite a lot of older aircraft that are very reasonably priced and it made me wonder;

Can you put modern "glass cockpit" avionics in an older aircraft?

For example; Could you put a G1000 or iEFIS glass cockpit into a a '65 Piper Warrior?

Not saying I would, I'm just wondering if its possible and what the pro's and con's be of doing such a thing?
Click to expand...
 
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