This is what I'm bringing my son into...

[SkyHog]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/24/us/new-york-twitter-suspension/index.html?sr=sharebar_facebook

An upstate New York student said he got a three-day suspension for creating a controversial Twitter hashtag encouraging discussion of the school district's failed budget.

Unbelievable. I don't think there's an intelligent person out there that doesn't agree that almost all schools are administration heavy, except maybe the administrators themselves....but regardless, how can a school tell its students that they want them to be involved in community, and to be leaders, and then punish them when they actually act as a thought leader?

I thought high school was bad when I went through it. I graduated 13 years ago, and in the last 13 years, schools have gotten WAAAAY out of hand. I stood up to the principals and even the superintendant of APS on a number of occasions, I was treated unfairly, and from time to time, I was even suspended for reasons I should have not been....but the ways our schools are working these days, its a wonder that any of our kids are going to be capable of dealing with society and difficult leadership by the time they graduate.

Private school sounds better and better every day.

 

[bflynn]

Yes, private school does sound better.

Clearly the school administration overstepped it's authority and infringed on the student's free speech right. Courts have consistently held that students have the right to speak out as long as it doesn't interfere with the education process.

Does Colorado permit charter schools?

 

[Dr. O]

Hmmm. Well, I was in high school before your father was born.
I did not "stand up" to the principal or get suspended.
His job was to run the school.
My job was to show up on time and pass my courses.
We each had our defined roles.
The idea that pimple faced, fourteen year old's have 'rights' is foreign to me.

I spent 35 years practicing medicine across the road from the local high school. I treated students daily over those years. I have watched the decline in general knowledge. I'm the chatty kind of family doc. I talk to my student patients as I go about my business. Usually about topical things like, "Next week the date is 11, 11. What is special about that date?"
Yup, they can recite the latest, profane rap lyrics.
Yup, they can rattle on about student rights.
Yup, they can wear their pants falling off, have rings in their noses and nipples, and they know about every street drug out there.
But 90%, or more, cannot tell me what Armistice Day signifies, or why the Code of Hammurabi is relevant to criminal justice today, or why we calculate in Base 10, or what a natural logarithm is, or define the difference between a Democracy and a Republic, or the difference between a Bicameral Legislature and a Unicameral, or tell me what the product of the reaction between an acid and a base is, or the difference between meiosis and mitosis, or how to manually extract a square root, and a whole lot of other stuff that was considered necessary for a high school graduate to know when I went through.

They believe that having memorized the key strokes for the apps on their smart phone is knowledge. What they don't know - because the school is not teaching them - is that 99% of what they "know" is topical, transient, and in ten years will be irrelevant. But then it does not take much beyond being able to scribble your name to sign up for welfare.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

Something else that I've noted that was not a part of my high school experience, and noted not just among pimply-faced teenagers, is the perception that disrespect equals discourse.

 

[tonycondon]

What makes you think a private school would tolerate that anymore than a public school?

 

[Florida Cracker]

Blaming a student because the teachers FAILED to teach things of importance, is like blaming the fuel tank because 100-LL is so expensive. There is a MASSIVE failure in public schools going on, because the schools have become an expensive place to house children while both parents work instead of using every opportunity to teach critical thinking skills and incite hunger for knowledge.

Public school administration has created a vacuum. Where directed learning once took place, directed indoctrination and specific shaping of personal opinions now dominates. Fear of freedom drives public schools these days and where people once went to lern, they now go to act like the Chinese workers, dressed alike, riding the hoard of bicycles to central committee mandated jobs, living in provided housing of questionable value, living lives controlled Options and limited to please a never ending bureaucracy, designed to keep them serving the collective, instead of independently seeking fulfillment.

Public schools have become nearly as big a joke as public school administrators. Public school teachers seem to surrender to the collective will to maintain status quo and HAMMER down creativitity, independence, enterprise and positive risk.

As nation after nation surpasses our graduating seniors, in standard testing, public school teachers, administrators and their facilitators and union parasites clamor for more money, loud enough to try and keep people for asking why they should bother giving these leeches more, when they use what the have to such pitiful result.

Blaming kids because their leadership sucks is way wrong. Blame unions, adminisators, zero tolerance, egos that drive the worthless machinery of public education and the embrace of failure as the true meaning of equality.

 

[bluee]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/24/us/new-york-twitter-suspension/index.html?sr=sharebar_facebook



Unbelievable. I don't think there's an intelligent person out there that doesn't agree that almost all schools are administration heavy, except maybe the administrators themselves....but regardless, how can a school tell its students that they want them to be involved in community, and to be leaders, and then punish them when they actually act as a thought leader?

I thought high school was bad when I went through it. I graduated 13 years ago, and in the last 13 years, schools have gotten WAAAAY out of hand. I stood up to the principals and even the superintendant of APS on a number of occasions, I was treated unfairly, and from time to time, I was even suspended for reasons I should have not been....but the ways our schools are working these days, its a wonder that any of our kids are going to be capable of dealing with society and difficult leadership by the time they graduate.

Private school sounds better and better every day.

I graduated from a private high school in 1989, and none of what you describe would have been permitted. If I had done any of those things, I would have been expelled. There was no standing up to the principal, teachers, or anyone in authority. Students were expected to behave, and if they did not behave, then they could go to public school. "Treated unfairly", every student is treated unfairly at some point, it's called growing up. Sorry, but what you describe sounds like a snotty brat.

 

[RJM62]

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/24/us/new-york-twitter-suspension/index.html?sr=sharebar_facebook



Unbelievable. I don't think there's an intelligent person out there that doesn't agree that almost all schools are administration heavy, except maybe the administrators themselves....but regardless, how can a school tell its students that they want them to be involved in community, and to be leaders, and then punish them when they actually act as a thought leader?

I thought high school was bad when I went through it. I graduated 13 years ago, and in the last 13 years, schools have gotten WAAAAY out of hand. I stood up to the principals and even the superintendant of APS on a number of occasions, I was treated unfairly, and from time to time, I was even suspended for reasons I should have not been....but the ways our schools are working these days, its a wonder that any of our kids are going to be capable of dealing with society and difficult leadership by the time they graduate.

Private school sounds better and better every day.

I have little doubt that the principal's feathers being ruffled had something to do with the boy's suspension, which is pretty typical of most public school educators: They encourage their students to express themselves, but only if their opinions conform to the party line. We see variations of this hypocrisy whether students express divergent points of view by way of social networking, blog posts, tee shirt slogans, and so forth.

On the other hand, the boy did admit to using a cell phone in school, which in my opinion is enough to justify the suspension. Cell phones are disruptive to learning. Even my younger relatives who are serious students agree with that. Kids talk, chat, text, and browse the Web during class, distracting kids who actually are interested in what the teacher is saying.

Unfortunately, jammers are illegal, and making a school into a Faraday box is impractical; so suspension and confiscation are the only remedies schools have available to them. So free speech issues aside, I really have little sympathy for this kid. He defied a known rule, and he got suspended. That's life.

-Rich

 

[kmead]

I have no regrets over homeschooling our kids up to high school. For high school it was up to the boarding schools to get them set for college. My wife and I went through a lot of crap in our public schools that we didn't want for them.

 

[Ted]

What makes you think a private school would tolerate that anymore than a public school?

I've been to both. I think that both had their pluses and minuses. I'm not sure I'd say on the whole one was better, but they were different.

 

[RJM62]

I've been to both. I think that both had their pluses and minuses. I'm not sure I'd say on the whole one was better, but they were different.

Me too. I attended a parochial elementary school and a public high school. I also attended three public colleges and one private one. They all had their advantages and disadvantages.

That's also why my solution to the whole question of education funding would be to issue educational vouchers to students. For all intents and purposes, this is how post-secondary educational financing works, and there's no reason why it shouldn't be extended to elementary and high school financing.

-Rich

 

[DavidWhite]

Homeschool is nice. The transition into the "real world" has not been difficult. Just make sure your kids aren't sheltered if you homeschool them - I know lots of kids who were and it was a huge shock when they went to college

 

[Florida Cracker]

When people denigrate homeschooling, I think of how many homeschool kids achieve outrageous scores on SAT tests.

Most of the attacks on homeschooling come from people invested in the machinery of public education and those invested in capturing your kids to teach them what the educational bureaucracy wants them limited to learning.

That whole, social justice and fairness crap is among the dumbest conceits yet invented by tax payer funded parasites.

 

[poadeleted21]

Yes, private school does sound better.

Clearly the school administration overstepped it's authority and infringed on the student's free speech right. Courts have consistently held that students have the right to speak out as long as it doesn't interfere with the education process.

Does Colorado permit charter schools?

My copy of the first amendment doesn't have an "as long as" clause in it.

 

[Norman]

Schools today preach "tolerance, tolerance, tolerance" to their students. Do they practice what they preach? No way!

 

[jsstevens]

When people denigrate homeschooling, I think of how many homeschool kids achieve outrageous scores on SAT tests.

Most of the attacks on homeschooling come from peop,e invested in the machinery of public education and those invested in capturing your kids to teach them what the educational bureaucracy wants them limited to learning.

That whole, social justice and fairness crap is among the dumbest concets yet invented by tax payer funded parasites.

And to be fair, while I agree with you, (full disclosure-all of my kids were homeschooled to a greater or lesser extent) there are families that give homeschooling a bad name. Google "unschooling".

John


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[ebykowsky]

The worst was the lopsided use of punishment when I was in HS. Many of these teachers in my case were afraid of a certain (ahem) "ghetto" segment of the population, and took it out on those who acted more normally. In one class, a ghetto kid behind me was rapping while my teacher was talking, "F*** that ho F*** her till she blow" and I told him to shut up. Guess who got yelled at for using "foul language?" Another time I got in a "fight" with a classmate who stole my ball on the field: I tried to grab it back, he punched me in the face, I told a teacher, we both got equal suspension. I've got a whole list of other stories of the complete lack of common sense in public school, but these two sum it up pretty well. They just don't care, don't want to use common sense, or simply don't have any.

 

[JHW]

you don't have to be catholic to go to a parochial school. My kids have several protestant classmates who's parents were fed up with the public schools political agenda.

 

[RJM62]

you don't have to be catholic to go to a parochial school. My kids have several protestant classmates who's parents were fed up with the public schools political agenda.

That's also why the crowd who claim to oppose vouchers on "church and state" grounds are full of baloney. Most Catholic schools that I know of gladly accept students of any faith, or no faith at all.

I have a Muslim friend whose nephew (also Muslim) attends a Catholic high school in Queens. The school cooperates with other local schools and religious organizations to allow students to take their religion classes in whatever faith they ascribe to, or to take a general ethics sort of class if they don't ascribe to any religion. Non-Catholic students are also excused from corporate prayer (but may participate if they wish) as well as church services.

Nonetheless, I've heard opponents of vouchers claim that because the school's name mentions a saint, or because there's a crucifix in the courtyard, allowing the school to accept vouchers would violate the Establishment Clause. What a bunch of nonsense.

Religious colleges with crucifixes in every room accept government financial aid, and hospitals named after saints and run by religious orders accept Medicaid and Medicare. The same should be true of elementary and high schools. As long as the voucher is only funding the secular education subjects, and the education meets the same standards required of secular schools, there is no reason why every parent and child should not be given school choice.

-Rich

 

[SkyHog]

Hmmm. Well, I was in high school before your father was born.
I did not "stand up" to the principal or get suspended.
His job was to run the school.
My job was to show up on time and pass my courses.
We each had our defined roles.
The idea that pimple faced, fourteen year old's have 'rights' is foreign to me.

I spent 35 years practicing medicine across the road from the local high school. I treated students daily over those years. I have watched the decline in general knowledge. I'm the chatty kind of family doc. I talk to my student patients as I go about my business. Usually about topical things like, "Next week the date is 11, 11. What is special about that date?"
Yup, they can recite the latest, profane rap lyrics.
Yup, they can rattle on about student rights.
Yup, they can wear their pants falling off, have rings in their noses and nipples, and they know about every street drug out there.
But 90%, or more, cannot tell me what Armistice Day signifies, or why the Code of Hammurabi is relevant to criminal justice today, or why we calculate in Base 10, or what a natural logarithm is, or define the difference between a Democracy and a Republic, or the difference between a Bicameral Legislature and a Unicameral, or tell me what the product of the reaction between an acid and a base is, or the difference between meiosis and mitosis, or how to manually extract a square root, and a whole lot of other stuff that was considered necessary for a high school graduate to know when I went through.

They believe that having memorized the key strokes for the apps on their smart phone is knowledge. What they don't know - because the school is not teaching them - is that 99% of what they "know" is topical, transient, and in ten years will be irrelevant. But then it does not take much beyond being able to scribble your name to sign up for welfare.

To be clear, you're saying that a 14 year old should not be allowed to say, away from school, that he disagrees with something the school is doing? Change Twitter to "The local newspaper," and tell me if that changes your opinion at all?

I agree that many rights adults enjoy are not shared with children, but I'll be damned if I'm going to teach my child that when he sees an injustice that he should just sit back and keep his mouth shut. That sounds like a really good way to encourage a child to be hurt in some way by someone in a position of authority.

Also - the fact that they can't answer any of the trivia questions you've given them is because their teachers aren't teaching them the answers to those questions.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

To be clear, you're saying that a 14 year old should not be allowed to say, away from school, that he disagrees with something the school is doing? Change Twitter to "The local newspaper," and tell me if that changes your opinion at all?

You honestly think a local newspaper would print a letter to the editor stating with "**** CNS should cut?" a perfect example of what I mentioned before, disrespect is not discourse.

If this child were serious about his opinions, there's an appropriate time, place and manner. My guess after reading the piece is the suspension was less about content than it was about place and manner.

And CNN throwing gas on the spark.

 

[Maxmosbey]

you don't have to be catholic to go to a parochial school. My kids have several protestant classmates who's parents were fed up with the public schools political agenda.

My son went to public school. We are Midwest Lutherans by the way. He got an academic scholarship to a Catholic college on the East coast. Most of his fellow students went to private schools before they went to college. As far as I can tell, my son was not at a disadvantage compared to the rest of the students for his public school education. Because of his scholarship he was admitted to their honors program and he was required to keep his grades high enough to remain in the program for the four years that he was there. He didn't have a problem with that. So I can only base my opinions of the quality of education of private and public education on that experience.

 

[catmandu]

They just don't care, don't want to use common sense, or simply don't have any.

Neighbor kid is a senior, and most of her classes are in 'coast' mode. English teacher has a tradition to occupy time every year around this time: "Write yourself a letter about what you want to be doing four years from now. I will take it and mail it to you then just for fun." The kid does not quite get that this is a real assignment, goes to her online gaming community for suggestions as to what she should be doing in four years, cuts and pastes the responses into the letter and turns it in.

Now, this kid is a little dark, but anyone who spends even a cursory amount of time with her can see that she knows what is right and wrong, what is fantasy and what is fiction. This online game is apparently some sort of medieval battle scenario, so there is violence, maiming, and death, and the suggestions as to what she should do from her online acquaintances reflect the situations from the game.

You guessed it: teacher actually reads the letter, turns it into the police, kid is now charged with felony terrorism or promotion of mayhem or some such thing, six days from graduation. Parents (of no particular financial means) have to hire a lawyer to try and keep things as they should be.

Sadly, I am only slightly surprised. I should be shocked.

 

[Florida Cracker]

Neighbor kid is a senior, and most of her classes are in 'coast' mode. English teacher has a tradition to occupy time every year around this time: "Write yourself a letter about what you want to be doing four years from now. I will take it and mail it to you then just for fun." The kid does not quite get that this is a real assignment, goes to her online gaming community for suggestions as to what she should be doing in four years, cuts and pastes the responses into the letter and turns it in.

Now, this kid is a little dark, but anyone who spends even a cursory amount of time with her can see that she knows what is right and wrong, what is fantasy and what is fiction. This online game is apparently some sort of medieval battle scenario, so there is violence, maiming, and death, and the suggestions as to what she should do from her online acquaintances reflect the situations from the game.

You guessed it: teacher actually reads the letter, turns it into the police, kid is now charged with felony terrorism or promotion of mayhem or some such thing, six days from graduation. Parents (of no particular financial means) have to hire a lawyer to try and keep things as they should be.

Sadly, I am only slightly surprised. I should be shocked.

The problem with MANY modern school teachers is that they never did a thing for themselves, all their lives, have no idea what the real world is like and wouldn't like it if they had to live in it.

College has become a sort of four year high school extension program and then these whiny, pathetic, faux adults make stupid decisions like the one you describe, having no concept that they are allowed to think before criminalizing a kid.

 

[jesse]

The whole system is busted. Teachers should be those those whom are successful in the private sector and actually understand how the world works. Of course you're never going to get someone successful from the private sector without some serious changes to what we pay teachers.

 

[JHW]

The whole system is busted. Teachers should be those those whom are successful in the private sector and actually understand how the world works. Of course you're never going to get someone successful from the private sector without some serious changes to what we pay teachers.

that's a bit too far. being successful at business does not translate to being able to teach. In the same way that many of the best flight instructors are mediocre-at-best stick&rudder pilots themselves, and vice-versa.

 

[ebykowsky]

Neighbor kid is a senior, and most of her classes are in 'coast' mode. English teacher has a tradition to occupy time every year around this time: "Write yourself a letter about what you want to be doing four years from now. I will take it and mail it to you then just for fun." The kid does not quite get that this is a real assignment, goes to her online gaming community for suggestions as to what she should be doing in four years, cuts and pastes the responses into the letter and turns it in.

Now, this kid is a little dark, but anyone who spends even a cursory amount of time with her can see that she knows what is right and wrong, what is fantasy and what is fiction. This online game is apparently some sort of medieval battle scenario, so there is violence, maiming, and death, and the suggestions as to what she should do from her online acquaintances reflect the situations from the game.

You guessed it: teacher actually reads the letter, turns it into the police, kid is now charged with felony terrorism or promotion of mayhem or some such thing, six days from graduation. Parents (of no particular financial means) have to hire a lawyer to try and keep things as they should be.

Sadly, I am only slightly surprised. I should be shocked.

I'm more surprised she even read the letter. Who possibly gets "terrorism" out of that? Most teachers give so little of a crap that this action does surprise me; I would expect that at least a parent conference would be in order.
Like I said though, common sense rarely prevails. One of my teachers got fired and almost brought up on charges for gently sitting on one of her female students in a joking way to get her out of the teacher's chair, and I got yelled at by a teacher for saying that our country would be better off with Joe Biden in office. She brought me in after class and told me how she thought it implied I wanted to kill the president and that I could be put in jail for that. The woman was in tears and told me about how sad she was when Kennedy was shot, and she didn't want that for Obama. I was 13.

 

[ebykowsky]

The whole system is busted. Teachers should be those those whom are successful in the private sector and actually understand how the world works. Of course you're never going to get someone successful from the private sector without some serious changes to what we pay teachers.

+1. These have always been the best teachers in my experience. However, a major reason for this is that those who have done well in the private sector only go into teaching because they love it; most are making too much money in the private sector to justify doing it for the money. These people are the natural teachers though who actually do it because they love teaching, hence they're better teachers. Unfortunately, schools will never have enough funding to entice the best and brightest successful people into teaching.

 

[AuntPeggy]

Kid was ok until the suggestions became a personal attack on the assistant principal. Personal attack on a person of authority led that person to retaliate improperly. ho hum. Personal attacks can rebound. Get over it.

 

[AuntPeggy]

Neighbor kid is a senior, and most of her classes are in 'coast' mode. English teacher has a tradition to occupy time every year around this time: "Write yourself a letter about what you want to be doing four years from now. I will take it and mail it to you then just for fun." The kid does not quite get that this is a real assignment, goes to her online gaming community for suggestions as to what she should be doing in four years, cuts and pastes the responses into the letter and turns it in.

Now, this kid is a little dark, but anyone who spends even a cursory amount of time with her can see that she knows what is right and wrong, what is fantasy and what is fiction. This online game is apparently some sort of medieval battle scenario, so there is violence, maiming, and death, and the suggestions as to what she should do from her online acquaintances reflect the situations from the game.

You guessed it: teacher actually reads the letter, turns it into the police, kid is now charged with felony terrorism or promotion of mayhem or some such thing, six days from graduation. Parents (of no particular financial means) have to hire a lawyer to try and keep things as they should be.

Sadly, I am only slightly surprised. I should be shocked.

There are some things that teachers and health care workers are mandated to report. When I was teaching it included suspected child abuse. I wouldn't be surprised if it has been expanded lately to include suspicion of terrorism.

 

[SkyHog]

Kid was ok until the suggestions became a personal attack on the assistant principal. Personal attack on a person of authority led that person to retaliate improperly. ho hum. Personal attacks can rebound. Get over it.

Recognizing a top-heavy administration is hardly a personal attack.

 

[Kelvin]

When I was in high school. the school admin consisted of a princpal, two assistants and a guidance counselor...

Today there are 10-12 positions in the same school with about 300 more kids...

I have been out of high school 30 years...that is a pretty big bloat if you ask me...I am not sure that this is typical nationwide, but here in Cumberland County it is...

The kid actually has a point...I can't endorse how he went about this...

 

[AuntPeggy]

Recognizing a top-heavy administration is hardly a personal attack.

It was not "recognizing a top-heavy administration." He said he suggested cutting her because he doesn't "think she does a good job."

Personal attacks on the internet are becoming more common and more abusive. Retaliation has been around much longer.

 

[LDJones]

Unfortunately, schools will never have enough funding to entice the best and brightest successful people into teaching.

I don't know. Nationally it is pushing $11,000 per student. In my area I think it is over $13,000. For a class of 30 kids that's $330,000 to $390,000 per classroom/teacher. If not enough is going to the teacher I'm thinking way too much is be spent on administrators and facilities. I see it as an example of govt inefficiency and messed up priorities.

 

[JHW]

... I got yelled at by a teacher for saying that our country would be better off with Joe Biden in office...

I agree with your teacher. I'm no fan of obama but if his life was in danger i'd be the first in line to donate blood for him. The thought of joe biden having access to the football should give anyone pause.

 

[poadeleted21]

It was not "recognizing a top-heavy administration." He said he suggested cutting her because he doesn't "think she does a good job."

Personal attacks on the internet are becoming more common and more abusive. Retaliation has been around much longer.

This is a personal attack? Sounds like his opinion of her job performance and a recommended solution. I see nothing of a personal nature in his statements.

 

[Florida Cracker]

This is a personal attack? Sounds like his opinion of her job performance and a recommended solution. I see nothing of a personal nature in his statements.

But... But.." even thinking liberals do a bad job at something IS a personal attack, in their whack-a-do universe.

 

[AuntPeggy]

This is a personal attack? Sounds like his opinion of her job performance and a recommended solution. I see nothing of a personal nature in his statements.

You wouldn't take it personally if I publicly suggested you should be fired for incompetence? OK.

 

[jesse]

that's a bit too far. being successful at business does not translate to being able to teach. In the same way that many of the best flight instructors are mediocre-at-best stick&rudder pilots themselves, and vice-versa.

I never said every successful person in the private sector would be able to teach but certainly some of them could and they're the ones who should be doing it.

 

[poadeleted21]

You wouldn't take it personally if I publicly suggested you should be fired for incompetence? OK.

Perhaps a person shouldn't go into leadership positions in the public sector if they can't handle the publics opinions about job the public is paying them to do.

Since you asked, nope not in this scenario I wouldn't take it personally at all. If he said I was an ugly doo doo head with a big nose...personal attack.