This is a different ATIS Information!

[KennyFlys]

I was curious what the reported winds were down there so I called...

Houston Intercontinental Airport, Information Alpha. 2100 Zulu. Houston Intercontinental Tower is closed to hazardous weather. Hazardous weather information available on Hiwas/Flight Watch/Flight Service frequencies. Houston Intercontinental Ramp Towers are closed. The airport remains open. The Common Traffic Advisory frequency is 127.3. Houston Tower is scheduled to resume operations at 1900 Zulu, September 13, 2008. Houston Intercontinental Airport. Information Alpha.

One of the busiest airports in the nation has closed the tower. That's different.

Conroe, 22NM north, is reporting 36016G28.

Austin is currently reporting 36017G27 with 32027G37KT expected at 0600 Local. It's getting there!

 

[Richard]

So KHOU is Class E or G for the time being? Has HOU been claimed yet?

 

[qbynewbie]

So KHOU is Class E or G for the time being? Has HOU been claimed yet?

HOU is Houston Hobby. Intercontinental is IAH.

So what does a Class B revert to when the tower closes???

 

[nddons]

I was curious what the reported winds were down there so I called...

One of the busiest airports in the nation has closed the tower. That's different.

Conroe, 22NM north, is reporting 36016G28.

Austin is currently reporting 36017G27 with 32027G37KT expected at 0600 Local. It's getting there!

360 degrees? Does that mean the hurricane is forecast to go the east of Austin?

 

[sba55]

HOU is Houston Hobby. Intercontinental is IAH.

So what does a Class B revert to when the tower closes???

I would guess that it doesn't revert at all. Approach owns the airspace, and if they close (seems unlikely), Center takes over. Just a guess, though.

 

[roncachamp]

So what does a Class B revert to when the tower closes???

It remains Class B.

 

[qbynewbie]

Well, I'll repeat my question from the Red Board. If that's the case, why do they post a CTAF?

 

[wabower]

360 degrees? Does that mean the hurricane is forecast to go the east of Austin?

Substantially.

 

[roncachamp]

Well, I'll repeat my question from the Red Board. If that's the case, why do they post a CTAF?

Same answer. Because the tower is closed.

 

[sba55]

Well, I'll repeat my question from the Red Board. If that's the case, why do they post a CTAF?

Why wouldn't they? No reason approach can't tell you to switch to advisory, whether VFR or IFR, if you're in class B.

 

[qbynewbie]

Why wouldn't they? No reason approach can't tell you to switch to advisory, whether VFR or IFR, if you're in class B.

Seems funny, that's all. It's temporarily what seems like a weird combination of controlled and uncontrolled field.

 

[KennyFlys]

Hobby ATIS verbatim:

Hobby Airport Control Tower is now closed due to the hurricane. The common traffic advisory frequency is 118.7. For further uhh assistance, contact Houston Approach Control at 133.05.

Hobby is reporting ASOS:
KHOU 130455Z 36042G58KT 1 1/4SM +RA BR FEW010 BKN018 OVC030 25/23 A2908 RMK AO2 PK WND 01053/0454 PRESFR P0000

Bush Intercontinental:
KIAH 130453Z 01037G46KT 6SM -RA BKN033 BKN065 OVC100 26/23 A2924 RMK AO2 PK WND 03046/0450 PRESFR SLP901 P0000 T02560228 PNO $

As far as what class right now, that's a good question. If both primary towers are closed, one would wonder if the Class B is still in effect.

Edit: Well, I got so dang curious about the question, I called Houston TRACON. It seems TRACON cut and run so services were transferred to Houston ARTCC. However, those services were also transferred to... Fort Worth ARTCC. Hence, my call was ultimately answered in Fort Worth.

My exact question: "If both Class B primary towers are closed, is the Class B airspace still in effect?" He said, "That's a doggone good question!"

It turns out the Class B is still in effect even if no one is likely to be flying in it. Given what I see on Flight Aware and radar... ya gotta be nuts to be doing so.

Looking across the Gulf Coast, I see an American MD82 headed into SAT and a Jet Blue A320 headed into MSY. But, nuttin' in between.

 

[roncachamp]

Why wouldn't they? No reason approach can't tell you to switch to advisory, whether VFR or IFR, if you're in class B.

How much traffic would you expect to find at a field where conditions have forced the evacuation of the tower?

 

[sba55]

Seems funny, that's all. It's temporarily what seems like a weird combination of controlled and uncontrolled field.

Yeah, makes sense. Ground is uncontrolled, but I would think that you can't take off or land without talking to approach...

 

[qbynewbie]

Hobby ATIS verbatim:

Hobby is reporting ASOS:
KHOU 130455Z 36042G58KT 1 1/4SM +RA BR FEW010 BKN018 OVC030 25/23 A2908 RMK AO2 PK WND 01053/0454 PRESFR P0000

Bush Intercontinental:
KIAH 130453Z 01037G46KT 6SM -RA BKN033 BKN065 OVC100 26/23 A2924 RMK AO2 PK WND 03046/0450 PRESFR SLP901 P0000 T02560228 PNO $

As far as what class right now, that's a good question. If both primary towers are closed, one would wonder if the Class B is still in effect.

Edit: Well, I got so dang curious about the question, I called Houston TRACON. It seems TRACON cut and run so services were transferred to Houston ARTCC. However, those services were also transferred to... Fort Worth ARTCC. Hence, my call was ultimately answered in Fort Worth.

My exact question: "If both Class B primary towers are closed, is the Class B airspace still in effect?" He said, "That's a doggone good question!"

It turns out the Class B is still in effect even if no one is likely to be flying in it. Given what I see on Flight Aware and radar... ya gotta be nuts to be doing so.

Looking across the Gulf Coast, I see an American MD82 headed into SAT and a Jet Blue A320 headed into MSY. But, nuttin' in between.

Thanks for checking that out. It's one of those odd questions that turn out to be interesting. Thanks for taking the time to get the answer.

 

[KennyFlys]

Well, I'll repeat my question from the Red Board. If that's the case, why do they post a CTAF?

The tower frequency is always the CTAF but it's not reported as CTAF in the publications since those towers are normally 24 hour operation. From what I understand, the tower chief could pick whichever of those frequencies they want to use for CTAF in such a situation so long as it's normally an actual tower frequency.

If an aircraft were going into such an airport, it would also be wise to make calls on 122.95 which is the unicom for all towered airports.

 

[Richard]

If a pilot called Unicom and no one was there to hear would he still.....?

 

[sba55]

How much traffic would you expect to find at a field where conditions have forced the evacuation of the tower?

Why does that matter? And I wouldn't expect to find any because I wouldn't be there

 

[KennyFlys]

How much traffic would you expect to find at a field where conditions have forced the evacuation of the tower?

Not much given these numbers just a bit ago...

[FONT=Courier New]KIAH 130700Z 36041G51KT 2 1/2SM +RA BR BKN014 BKN019 OVC025 24/23 RMK AO2 PK WND 36051/0654 P0002 $[/FONT]
[FONT=Courier New]KHOU 130700Z 36049G68KT 1 1/4SM -RA BR SCT009 BKN018 OVC023 24/23 A2869 RMK AO2 PK WND 36068/0654 PRESFR P0004[/FONT]

Would you stick around in a tower with those winds?

Besides that, the airport and airlines would not put employees out there with the liability.

Edit: The best I can find is the IAH tower is around 330 feet. It's 424 MSL and the nearest TDZEs are 91 and 97. That's pretty high up to be hanging around with 70 kt winds.

Atlanta's tower is 398 feet.

 

[Richard]

With the pressure falling that rapidly and that low I wonder the incidence of ear and sinus problems among those who stayed?

 

[KennyFlys]

With the pressure falling that rapidly and that low I wonder the incidence of ear and sinus problems among those who stayed?

Watch it keep getting lower as the eye passes over. The last report at Pearland (LVJ) is 29.01. I'd rather get Ellington Field (EFD) but it's not reporting at all right now.

I've heard the pressure can drop as low as 26 inches in the eye, at sea level.

 

[ScottM]

With the pressure falling that rapidly and that low I wonder the incidence of ear and sinus problems among those who stayed?

Our ears can handle drops like that. Simply returning to the surface from 33 feet below sea level the pressure on our ears and sinus goes from 2atmospheres (almost 30psi) to 1 atmosphere (14.7 psi) in like a 15 to 30 second time frame.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

It remains Class B.

Reference?

The local class C tower and tracon close at night, and revert to E/G.

 

[KennyFlys]

Reference?

The local class C tower and tracon close at night, and revert to E/G.

There isn't none. Not even the 24Hr duty controller at Forth Worth ARTCC had an answer off the cuff. The question had never come up before.

He had to look into it and discovered standard procedure is Class B is always Class B. Even when the primary tower(s) within the Class B are not in service such as the case currently at Bush Intercontinental and Hobby.

 

[timwinters]

36042G58KT
01037G46KT

They consider that simply breezy in Eastern South Dakota!

 

[TMetzinger]

Hobby ATIS verbatim:

Hobby is reporting ASOS:
KHOU 130455Z 36042G58KT 1 1/4SM +RA BR FEW010 BKN018 OVC030 25/23 A2908 RMK AO2 PK WND 01053/0454 PRESFR P0000

Bush Intercontinental:
KIAH 130453Z 01037G46KT 6SM -RA BKN033 BKN065 OVC100 26/23 A2924 RMK AO2 PK WND 03046/0450 PRESFR SLP901 P0000 T02560228 PNO $

As far as what class right now, that's a good question. If both primary towers are closed, one would wonder if the Class B is still in effect.

Edit: Well, I got so dang curious about the question, I called Houston TRACON. It seems TRACON cut and run so services were transferred to Houston ARTCC. However, those services were also transferred to... Fort Worth ARTCC. Hence, my call was ultimately answered in Fort Worth.

My exact question: "If both Class B primary towers are closed, is the Class B airspace still in effect?" He said, "That's a doggone good question!"

It turns out the Class B is still in effect even if no one is likely to be flying in it. Given what I see on Flight Aware and radar... ya gotta be nuts to be doing so.

Looking across the Gulf Coast, I see an American MD82 headed into SAT and a Jet Blue A320 headed into MSY. But, nuttin' in between.

I'm gonna fire up the Flight Sim with real world weather and check it out. My virtual airline (virtual continental -www.vcair.com) staged shuttles between IAH and DFW last night - my last trip out had winds 01027G40, which made for an interesting departure on 33R.

 

[roncachamp]

Reference?

Order JO 7400.9R Airspace Designations and Reporting Points, page B-26.

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/at_orders/media/7400.9.pdf

The local class C tower and tracon close at night, and revert to E/G.

Class C airspace that reverts to Class G at night? Where?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Order JO 7400.9R Airspace Designations and Reporting Points, page B-26.

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/at_orders/media/7400.9.pdf

Thanks!

Class C airspace that reverts to Class G at night? Where?

Madison, and it's class E. From your above reference:

Airport-Truax Field, WI
Dane County Regional Airport-Truax Field, WI
(lat. 43°08'22"N., long. 89°20'14"W.)
Waunakee Airport
(lat. 43°11'00"N., long 89°27'00"W.)

That airspace extending upward from the surface to
and including 4,900 feet MSL within a 5-mile radius
of the Dane County Regional Airport-Truax Field
excluding that airspace within a 1 1/2-mile radius of
the Waunakee Airport; and that airspace extending
upward from 2,300 feet MSL to and including 4,900
feet MSL within a 10-mile radius of the Dane County
Regional Airport-Truax Field. This Class C airspace
area is effective during the specific dates and times
established in advance by a Notice to Airmen. The
effective date and time will thereafter be
continuously published in the Airport/Facility
Directory.

And from the A/FD:

AIRSPACE: CLASS C svc 1200–0500Z‡ ctc APPCON other times CLASS E.

 

[KennyFlys]

How did "D" or "C" come up? The question was about Class B.

 

[SkyHog]

OK, so lets assume it stays class B. Airport is open, tower is closed. You must have clearance to land at Class B, right? Who issues?

Moreover....if the weather improves and tower has not yet opened, someone claim the airport, for real

 

[roncachamp]

OK, so lets assume it stays class B. Airport is open, tower is closed. You must have clearance to land at Class B, right? Who issues?

A landing clearance is required at an airport with an operating control tower without regard to airspace class.

 

[KennyFlys]

OK, so lets assume it stays class B. Airport is open, tower is closed. You must have clearance to land at Class B, right? Who issues?

Moreover....if the weather improves and tower has not yet opened, someone claim the airport, for real

You would need clearance to enter the Class B airspace. Once that's given, you could continue and land.

 

[Richard]

Our ears can handle drops like that. Simply returning to the surface from 33 feet below sea level the pressure on our ears and sinus goes from 2atmospheres (almost 30psi) to 1 atmosphere (14.7 psi) in like a 15 to 30 second time frame.

As a diver of many years I know that. I am also accquainted with the attendent occasional sinus irritation which can and has grown into a full blown infection.

But my wondering was in the unique context of surviving a hurricane. I mean these people did nothing (other than not fleeing to safety) to warrant the severe condition...unlike an activity like diving when you know the risks and prepare accordingly (most of the time).

 

[wsuffa]

I was curious what the reported winds were down there so I called...

One of the busiest airports in the nation has closed the tower. That's different.

Conroe, 22NM north, is reporting 36016G28.

Austin is currently reporting 36017G27 with 32027G37KT expected at 0600 Local. It's getting there!

CVG, SDF, and I think LUK were all closed today - towers evacuated due to the remnants of Ike. Guess CLE's next up - CO's really taking a beating on this storm.

 

[AuntPeggy]

Hobby ATIS verbatim:

Hobby is reporting ASOS:
KHOU 130455Z 36042G58KT 1 1/4SM +RA BR FEW010 BKN018 OVC030 25/23 A2908 RMK AO2 PK WND 01053/0454 PRESFR P0000

Bush Intercontinental:
KIAH 130453Z 01037G46KT 6SM -RA BKN033 BKN065 OVC100 26/23 A2924 RMK AO2 PK WND 03046/0450 PRESFR SLP901 P0000 T02560228 PNO $

As far as what class right now, that's a good question. If both primary towers are closed, one would wonder if the Class B is still in effect.

Edit: Well, I got so dang curious about the question, I called Houston TRACON. It seems TRACON cut and run so services were transferred to Houston ARTCC. However, those services were also transferred to... Fort Worth ARTCC. Hence, my call was ultimately answered in Fort Worth.

My exact question: "If both Class B primary towers are closed, is the Class B airspace still in effect?" He said, "That's a doggone good question!"

It turns out the Class B is still in effect even if no one is likely to be flying in it. Given what I see on Flight Aware and radar... ya gotta be nuts to be doing so.

Looking across the Gulf Coast, I see an American MD82 headed into SAT and a Jet Blue A320 headed into MSY. But, nuttin' in between.

You would need clearance to enter the Class B airspace. Once that's given, you could continue and land.

So, can ARTCC give you clearance into the B?

 

[sba55]

So, can ARTCC give you clearance into the B?

Yes, they can.

-Felix

 

[roncachamp]

So, can ARTCC give you clearance into the B?

If Center gave you an IFR clearance to IAH, would you insist on a clearance to enter Class B airspace from Approach?

 

[AuntPeggy]

If Center gave you an IFR clearance to IAH, would you insist on a clearance to enter Class B airspace from Approach?

I'm a VFR pilot. Not likely to get an IFR clearance. Never have asked for one, but I have asked for clearance into the New York Bravo.

Point taken, tho. It would certainly be IMC going into a hurricane. So this is all theoretical.

 

[roncachamp]

I'm a VFR pilot. Not likely to get an IFR clearance. Never have asked for one, but I have asked for clearance into the New York Bravo.

Point taken, tho. It would certainly be IMC going into a hurricane. So this is all theoretical.

Well, that wasn't the point. Most of the traffic entering any given Class B airspace is operating IFR and is never given "Cleared to enter Bravo airspace".