This has gotta be illegal

[Ken Ibold]

So I just got back from two flights this afternoon totaling 1.6 hours in the Pitts. At last I have gotten to the point where I'm not petrified with fear while landing the darn thing. In fact, it's pretty fun!!! For yucks today, after I landed on 5, with the wind 040 at 18G25, I asked for a takeoff and then right traffic to land on 32. The tower came back with, "3QQ, that's approved, but be advised the wind is 040 at 18G25." Said I, "Yeah, that's kinda why I'm asking for it."

My landing wasn't beautiful, but it was pretty good. At last, my Pitts and I are friends.

 

[Tom-D]

At last, my Pitts and I are friends.

Yeah Right,,, He just wants you to think that so when he kicks your butt it will be a surprise.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Yeah Right,,, He just wants you to think that so when he kicks your butt it will be a surprise.

Yikes!
If one of those G25 goes to 070, you might wonder what you were doing.

 

[EdFred]

Yes, owning a Pitts and posting about it SHOULD be illegal.

**grumbles**

 

[gismo]

So I just got back from two flights this afternoon totaling 1.6 hours in the Pitts. At last I have gotten to the point where I'm not petrified with fear while landing the darn thing. In fact, it's pretty fun!!! For yucks today, after I landed on 5, with the wind 040 at 18G25, I asked for a takeoff and then right traffic to land on 32. The tower came back with, "3QQ, that's approved, but be advised the wind is 040 at 18G25." Said I, "Yeah, that's kinda why I'm asking for it."

My landing wasn't beautiful, but it was pretty good. At last, my Pitts and I are friends.

Glad you've tamed the beast (somewhat). I looked for you at S&F today but everyone thought you'd left yesterday. I'll be in Venice all week, perhaps we can get together.

 

[Diana]

So I just got back from two flights this afternoon totaling 1.6 hours in the Pitts. At last I have gotten to the point where I'm not petrified with fear while landing the darn thing. In fact, it's pretty fun!!!

Ken, that's wonderful! Did you do any aerobatics while you were up?

 

[Bill]

At last I have gotten to the point where I'm not petrified with fear while landing the darn thing.

Shoot, that's me in a REGULAR airplane!!!

 

[Ken Ibold]

Yeah Right,,, He just wants you to think that so when he kicks your butt it will be a surprise.

Hah! I think you are right about that! Lure 'em into a false sense of security and then WHAM!

 

[Ken Ibold]

Yikes!
If one of those G25 goes to 070, you might wonder what you were doing.

The gusts were tending to come from slightly more northerly than easterly, which helped somewhat. But I sure know what you mean.

I am a firm believer in knowing what your airplane can do and trying to build skills that take full advantage of the airplane's capabilities. The Pitts is still far more capable as an airplane than I am as pilot of it, but we're working on that.

 

[Ken Ibold]

Glad you've tamed the beast (somewhat). I looked for you at S&F today but everyone thought you'd left yesterday. I'll be in Venice all week, perhaps we can get together.

Yeah, I had a baseball game to coach on Saturday afternoon, so I split. And I'm happy to report my son went 2-for-2 with two doubles (one with the bases loaded), two runs scored and 3 RBI in an 8-1 victory.

 

[Ken Ibold]

Did you do any aerobatics while you were up?

Nope. My chute is out of time and the rigger can't get to it for another week or so.

I HATE the 120-day repack rule. I hear Allen Silver is leading an attempt to get it changed to at least 180 days.

 

[Frank Browne]

Nope. My chute is out of time and the rigger can't get to it for another week or so.

Ken, do the FAR's require a chute for solo aerobatics? I thought that a chute wasn't required if solo, but if more than one aboard ALL had to wear chutes.

 

[ScottM]

Nope. My chute is out of time and the rigger can't get to it for another week or so.

I HATE the 120-day repack rule. I hear Allen Silver is leading an attempt to get it changed to at least 180 days.

What does it take to get a riggers cert so you could do it yourself?

 

[Ken Ibold]

Ken, do the FAR's require a chute for solo aerobatics? I thought that a chute wasn't required if solo, but if more than one aboard ALL had to wear chutes.

Yes, that's exactly right. However, not being required to wear one is not the issue for me in this airplane right now. (I am still overcontrolling a little at times.)

 

[Frank Browne]

Yes, that's exactly right. However, not being required to wear one is not the issue for me in this airplane right now. (I am still overcontrolling a little at times.)

Gotcha. Thanks.

 

[gibbons]

I HATE the 120-day repack rule. I hear Allen Silver is leading an attempt to get it changed to at least 180 days.

I'm in!! Let me know how I can help.

Chip

 

[ScottM]

What does it take to get a riggers cert so you could do it yourself?

Talking to myself I answer...

Becoming an FAA Certified Parachute Rigger
HOW TO APPLY
Becoming an FAA Certified Parachute Rigger is one of the most rewarding jobs out there. There is no higher satisfaction or privilege knowing the parachute you packed saved a pilot or skydiver's life. That's pretty neat.
You must pack a minimum of 20 logged approved reserve parachutes under supervision of a Senior or Master Parachute Rigger, pass a computerized written test, then pass an oral and practical tests. The practical test usually consists of inspecting and repacking a reserve, sewing a canopy patch, maybe a little hand-tacking plus any other minor task the examiner, Designated Parachute Rigger Examiner (DPRE), feels like assigning to you. The testing process is straight forward and DPRE challenges you on common rigging problems. The oral question exam consists of questions about common rigging practices and tests your knowledge orally just like the written test.

To study for the written test, buy copies of Dan Poynter's "The Parachute Manual, Volumes I&II, and Poynter's latest Rigger's Study Guide. You can purchase these and other books through the Parachute Shop.

The real challenge is in finding a rigger to supervise your 20 practice pack jobs.
There are 3 ways to acquire this experience.

First, you could apprentice, by far the best choice, under your local Senior or Master Rigger, and or Parachute Loft. This process varies widely in time and knowledge, but an active loft will teach you more than any quickie rubber stamped course. Apprenticeship are the best if you have the time. That is what we do at the Parachute Shop. Apprenticeship can take a month or several with us. There is some cost for the training. Call me for more information.
Second, look in Parachutist or Sky Diver Magazine in the classifieds, there is usually someone offering a quicky 10 day course offered in the winter.

Third, you could enlist in the U.S. Military as a parachute rigger, Air Force or Navy is the best.

 

[silver-eagle]

You must pack a minimum of 20 logged approved reserve parachutes...

Brings to mind a few questions... Is packing all that is required or do you have to prove it still works? Who's the fool who is going to "test" it? And how do you log a packed chute (John packed it, Joe tested it)? And why a reserve chute? Wouldn't you think you'd want the reserve to be packed by the MASTER!?!?

 

[gkainz]

Brings to mind a few questions... Is packing all that is required or do you have to prove it still works? Who's the fool who is going to "test" it? And how do you log a packed chute (John packed it, Joe tested it)? And why a reserve chute? Wouldn't you think you'd want the reserve to be packed by the MASTER!?!?
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Sounds similar to destructive testing of fuses ... tested 1000 20 amp fuses; all fuses blew at 20 amps +/- 10% industry accepted variance. Fuses returned to service.... oops, did that say Non-destructive test?

 

[gismo]

Brings to mind a few questions... Is packing all that is required or do you have to prove it still works? Who's the fool who is going to "test" it? And how do you log a packed chute (John packed it, Joe tested it)? And why a reserve chute? Wouldn't you think you'd want the reserve to be packed by the MASTER!?!?
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The theory is that if it's inspected before packing and packed correctly it should work. Not much different than approved maintenance on an airplane. As to logging, there is a little card that goes in a pocket in the chute where each repack is logged. And IIRC only emergency and reserve chutes need to be packed by a certified rigger, the owner/user can pack their own primary.

 

[gkainz]

Makes me wonder, if it's been packed properly, then it's gonna open and work, regardless of 90 days, 120 days, or years. Why the continued pack and repack? If it was right once, it should still be right, right?

 

[gismo]

Makes me wonder, if it's been packed properly, then it's gonna open and work, regardless of 90 days, 120 days, or years. Why the continued pack and repack? If it was right once, it should still be right, right?

I expect it's kinda like a 100 hr inspection. Maybe sitting on the pack causes problems, but my guess is that the real issue is the inspection and the repack is simply something required after the inspection to make it useable again. It would be interesting to see if any problems are found on one inspection that didn't show 120 days earlier to some extent. Chances are the reg was written when the materials used were more susceptable to rot.

 

[Ken Ibold]

Chances are the reg was written when the materials used were more susceptable to rot.

I think that's exactly the case. As far as I know, the current wisdom in the field is that once a year is plenty.

 

[gibbons]

I think that's exactly the case. As far as I know, the current wisdom in the field is that once a year is plenty.

My packer tells me that every six to 12 months is plenty. The problem appears to be the folks who leave the parachute in the trunk of the car, or under the canopy in the sun, or on the hangar floor where dirt and oil get into the pack. The big deal (as I understand it) is the rubber bands used to control the deployment of the parachute. When they go bad the parachute can foul on deployment, causing the pilot to have a very bad day. Someone else will need to verify this, but that's my understanding.

I have four parachutes and it costs $40 each for packing every three months. Considering what it costs to run the airplane, that's nothing. It's not the money that makes the 120 day rule a hardship. It's getting my parachutes to the packer and picking them up again, and the down time involved while my personal parachute is being packed. I'd like to see them put a "useful life" on parachutes after which they are no longer legal, and set the pack interval to 12 months.

Chip

 

[Ken Ibold]

It's not the money that makes the 120 day rule a hardship. It's getting my parachutes to the packer and picking them up again, and the down time involved while my personal parachute is being packed.

My feelings exactly.

 

[gkainz]

sounds like a business opportunity... like the rhino LP bottle exchange? Always have a fresh chute - as yours approaches inspection time, bring it to the rigger and exchange it for your ready spare and off you go!

 

[Ken Ibold]

sounds like a business opportunity... like the rhino LP bottle exchange? Always have a fresh chute - as yours approaches inspection time, bring it to the rigger and exchange it for your ready spare and off you go!

An acquaintenance of mine says: "Wearing someone else's chute is like wearing someone else's underwear." Think sweaty crotch straps.

 

[Bill]

An acquaintenance of mine says: "Wearing someone else's chute is like wearing someone else's underwear." Think sweaty crotch straps.

How many of us rode in the front of Chip's plane last year? It was QUITE warm and humid. Yuk.

 

[Ken Ibold]

How many of us rode in the front of Chip's plane last year? It was QUITE warm and humid. Yuk.

Yeah, but we're all good friends now!!

 

[gkainz]

An acquaintenance of mine says: "Wearing someone else's chute is like wearing someone else's underwear." Think sweaty crotch straps.

Yeah, I hear ya...I spent 1200 hours in a torso harness...the chutes stayed in the seats. Can't imagine slipping into someone else's ...

 

[Frank Browne]

...I spent 1200 hours in a torso harness...

You were in E-2 Hawkeyes weren't you??

 

[gkainz]

You were in E-2 Hawkeyes weren't you??

Yep, E-2B then E-2C and then back to the B model with the reserves.

 

[Frank Browne]

Yep, E-2B then E-2C and then back to the B model with the reserves.

My brother spent 16 years in the P-3 Orion community. Had a couple of chances to go into S-3 Vikings but declined. He gave me 2 reasons why...1) sea duty and...2) ejection seats.

 

[gkainz]

My brother spent 16 years in the P-3 Orion community. Had a couple of chances to go into S-3 Vikings but declined. He gave me 2 reasons why...1) sea duty and...2) ejection seats.

The P-3 had cots, a head, galley, no tail hook... good choice!

The Hawkeye had the worst of both: 1) sea duty and ... 2) no ejection seats

The passageway thru the equipment compartment to the operators compartment was about 1" wider than the chute/seat pan combination and the overhead was about 4' 8". Bail out procedures were to pull the seat pins which released the chute and seat pan, containing the individual raft and additional survival gear, hunch over and waddle forward to the main hatch and roll out thru the opening. The engine nacelle was about 3 feet in front of you and the prop was about 1 ft forward of you... yeah, right! Jump out into that? Of course, gravity and slipstream would probably take care of clearances well enough, but that all pre-supposes one could get out of your seat and get to the hatch successfully, 'cause if you're bailing out, most likely it's not going to be a smooth ride. I don't recall any successful bailouts from an E-2. There was one attempt, as I recall, in the mid-80's. An east coast squadron E-2C had an elevator disconnect and the plane started a series of increasing oscillations. I believe they found some of the crew still strapped in their seats and one or two apparently trying to get to the hatch; there were no survivors

 

[ScottM]

The P-3 had cots, a head, galley, no tail hook... good choice!

The Hawkeye had the worst of both: 1) sea duty and ... 2) no ejection seats

The passageway thru the equipment compartment to the operators compartment was about 1" wider than the chute/seat pan combination and the overhead was about 4' 8". Bail out procedures were to pull the seat pins which released the chute and seat pan, containing the individual raft and additional survival gear, hunch over and waddle forward to the main hatch and roll out thru the opening. The engine nacelle was about 3 feet in front of you and the prop was about 1 ft forward of you... yeah, right! Jump out into that? Of course, gravity and slipstream would probably take care of clearances well enough, but that all pre-supposes one could get out of your seat and get to the hatch successfully, 'cause if you're bailing out, most likely it's not going to be a smooth ride. I don't recall any successful bailouts from an E-2. There was one attempt, as I recall, in the mid-80's. An east coast squadron E-2C had an elevator disconnect and the plane started a series of increasing oscillations. I believe they found some of the crew still strapped in their seats and one or two apparently trying to get to the hatch; there were no survivors

I was in RC-135s we had a bailout procedure that was aout as bad. Either wlk to the front and drop out the forward crew entry hatch and hopefully not get fouled in anything hanging down from the plane or walk to the back pull the pins and open the aft ecape chute. We were taught that would work in level flight very well. But I ask if we were in level flight why the heck would I want to jump out?? More than likely we would be spinning towards the ground after a missle penetrated part of the plane that are needed for level flight. And do not even get me started on exposure suits for the dunk into the frigid northern waters.

 

[gkainz]

And do not even get me started on exposure suits for the dunk into the frigid northern waters.

poopy suits ... guaranteed for 5lbs per hour of personal weight loss and wonderful chafed elbows, knees and neckline...

 

[RotaryWingBob]

If that's illegal, Ken, then flying helos must be a felony too. I got some stick time in the Robinson today, and what a beautiful day to fly! I even got to share it with PAX...