This Captain is a Jerk

[Captain]

As requested from another thread in this category...

So I changed the format of this thread title a tad as A: It's a true story that happened to me, and B: I'm not asking...I'm quite sure he's...well, maybe not a jerk, but a bad pilot at the least. Here goes, enjoy.

So, I'm right seat of a B-727 hauling the rubber dog crap up and down the Island chain to S. America and back to Miami. It's late at night and we're in Haiti at Port Au Prince. I'm flying with Captain Alverez, a guy a few years from retirement (retired now) and an Eastern Scab. I point that out because, well...it's relavant to me to point out any scab when I see them.

Anyway, we're in Port Au Prince at night and have loaded up and are heading back to MIA. We taxi out uneventfully. It's his leg and we're cleared for takeoff. Normal procedure is for the Flying Pilot to stand up the power levers and let the FE set takeoff power. Well, this night Captain Alverez (EA scab) stands the power levers up and there is an immediate loud rattle coming from the pedestal where the power levers are.

It's obvious to me we're not going flying tonight unless something obvious is discovered. He pulls the power levers back and I assume we're going back to the gate. Imagine my surprise when the power levers go back up! The rattle is still there and Captain Alverez (EA scab) ponders over the engine instruments as we start rolling. I give him a second while he appears to be troubleshooting, pulling the levers back and pushing them back up...all the while we're going faster and faster.

Well, Captain Alverez (EA scab) is clearly out of his depths here. Unable to make a call. Around 80 kts I say sternly, 'That's NOT normal!" to which he relents and pulls the levers back. By now we're pushing over 100 kts.

So, let's set this up. We had an issue at ZERO knots yet we now are doing a fricking high speed abort. Great job Captain.

I tell tower we're aborting our takeoff and Captain scab scolds me for not saying 'discontinue our takeoff roll'. Whatever. I said it on the 'other thread' and it's true. It's Haiti. You could roll a joint, go to the tower and smoke it and then takeoff without a clearance and what would happen? Nothing is the correct answer.

Anyway, I digress...

We get off the runway and Captain Alverez (EA scab) decides to do some trouble shooting. Okay...I can go along with that. He stands each power lever up one at a time. No. 1 goes up and the rattle is there. It comes back. No. 2 and 3 go up one at a time and neither have any abnormal sound. Great, it's No. 1 engine, let's go back now. Nope.

Captain Alverez (EA scab) now wants to do more trouble shooting. He runs the No. 1 engine up! He wants to find the exact EPR that causes the worst noise. Why? I have no fricken idea. He retarded maybe? Finally after 3 or 4 minutes of running up an engine that is obviously not working properly he's satisfied and tells me to get clearance to the gate. I get the clearance.

Now, the next part needs a little background. A B-727 has 2 hydraulic systems that are run off the No. 1 and No. 2 engines. There is no hydraulic power provided from the No. 3 engine. You don't really need hydraulics to fly (well flaps and gear but you can crank the gear and land w/o flaps) but there sort of necessary to taxi.

So, we taxi back with a bad No. 1 engine. On the way I hear an engine spool down and assume it's the bad one, right? Doesn't that make sense? Not to Captain Alverez (EA scab). He just shut down number 2. Great, I think, now we HAVE to leave the bad engine running so we have hydraulics. Fricken idiot....well too late now, I continue to think, not enough time to start it again anyway by the time we get to the gate.

So I bite my tounge and we continue to taxi. As I'm rolling all this around in my head I hear ANOTHER engine spool down! Yup, the retard just shut down number 3!!!

We have 3 fricken engines and only one of them have a problem and THAT'S the engine Captain Alverez (EA scab) decides to use during a single engine taxi in a fully loaded, over landing weight Boeing 727. Super great.


We get to the gate and shut down. We inspect the No. 1 engine and its thrown 2 or 3 N1 blades. Those are the big ones you see when you look into the front of a jet btw. I saw the engine on a stand a week or so later in MIA and of the 14 compressor stages every one of them had damage. The first 5 or 6 stages were just destroyed and I can't believe the engine got us to the gate.


There's more to the story but it all involves our overnight in Haiti and ducking down in the back seat of cars and hand guns and the most desperate people I've ever seen on earth (and I've been around the Pacific rim too...lot's of poverty there but nothing like Haiti).

It got long and sorry for that. Hope you enjoyed the story. All true too. I say Captain Alverez (EA scab) is in fact a jerk....well, at least a terrible pilot.

 

[Anymouse]

How long ago was the Eastern strike??

Get over it!!

 

[Captain]

lol,

Maybe I pushed the scab thing too hard. I wasn't affected at all by the Eastern strike. It's the principle and there are unions today that would appreciate pilots not crossing their lines in the event of a strike.


I'm sorry if the take away from my post was a scab issue. It wasn't. I just tied that in out of spite.

 

[Rigged4Flight]

Thanks for the rest of the story!

I think you bit your tongue too much. Stupidity is another one of my pet peeves. I don't think I could have refrained from saying something that may have been career affecting.

 

[DouglasBader]

So, let's set this up. We had an issue at ZERO knots yet we now are doing a fricking high speed abort. Great job Captain.

In a Boeing, you reject a takeoff and abort an engine start. Great job "captain."

You've really very little to say about those with whom you fly except the negative, and your posts generally portray you as antisocial in the cockpit. I've lost track of the number of times you post ridiculing your "first officers," to say nothing of roasting the captain. At least he had a type rating in the airplane and probably knew that one doesn't "abort" a takeoff in a Boeing.

As for the most desperate people on earth, I doubt you've seen much of the earth outside of google, but if you think it's a great story, that's what counts.

 

[comanchepilot]

I don't understand the whole scab thing - the first three days of a strike means you lose 100% of whatever you gain in the new contract. Striking makes zero sense financially and the claim is that you are striking for money . . .

If you don't want to work, your employer finds someone who does. You lose. Thats how it works. Unions exist to protect the financial wherewithal of their members - thats the only reason they exist today. You get bullied by your employer in a non-union environment you go work for someone else who treats you better - the ONLY reason you can't do that in the airline environment is because of unions and the seniority rules which set your work environment - if there were was no seniority system you could go work anywhere.

And your pay, benefits and work rules would be set by your competency and you would NEVER see idiots like the captain you complain about in the left seat . . .

but thats just my imho - flame me if you want - I'm sure you will.

 

[Greg Bockelman]

the first three days of a strike means you lose 100% of whatever you gain in the new contract.

Not sure how you come to that conclusion.

Striking makes zero sense financially and the claim is that you are striking for money . . .

Whose claim? A lot of times the strike is about a lot more than just money.

Unions exist to protect the financial wherewithal of their members - thats the only reason they exist today.

Again, a lot of times it is a lot more than just financial.

if there were was no seniority system you could go work anywhere.

Yeah, and that caused its own set of problems.

And your pay, benefits and work rules would be set by your competency and you would NEVER see idiots like the captain you complain about in the left seat . . .

Really? In a lot of cases, it could actually be worse under those situations.

but thats just my imho -

Yup, and you are entitled to it.

Sigh. Why do I get sucked into these discussions?

 

[Mafoo]

I don't understand the whole scab thing - the first three days of a strike means you lose 100% of whatever you gain in the new contract. Striking makes zero sense financially and the claim is that you are striking for money . . .

If you don't want to work, your employer finds someone who does. You lose. Thats how it works. Unions exist to protect the financial wherewithal of their members - thats the only reason they exist today. You get bullied by your employer in a non-union environment you go work for someone else who treats you better - the ONLY reason you can't do that in the airline environment is because of unions and the seniority rules which set your work environment - if there were was no seniority system you could go work anywhere.

And your pay, benefits and work rules would be set by your competency and you would NEVER see idiots like the captain you complain about in the left seat . . .

but thats just my imho - flame me if you want - I'm sure you will.

Unions were very worth while in the era they were created in. Because those unions worked, they are not needed any more.

It's like the Rev. Jesse Jackson. I am very glad we had him in the 60's and 70's. He was a huge positive influence on civil rights.

Unfortunately due to his success in that era, he is a liability today. The problem is solved. Time to approach life differently.

 

[Palmpilot]

Unions were very worth while in the era they were created in. Because those unions worked, they are not needed any more.

That's a myth. Apparently you haven't seen some of the one-sided stuff that some non-union employers impose on their employees. We also have no basis for assuming that non-union employers wouldn't treat their employees worse if there were no possibility of their being unionized.

 

[Palmpilot]

You get bullied by your employer in a non-union environment you go work for someone else who treats you better...

Yeah, because jobs are so plentiful today.

 

[bbchien]

The Lorenzo EA strike was in 1984, IIRC. A full Twenty-eight years ago.

Fy first civil transition instructor was an EA guy who was flying Cessnas once again.

WHAT an industry. sigh. May Lorenzo rot in h_ll eternally.

 

[Palmpilot]

In a Boeing, you reject a takeoff and abort an engine start. Great job "captain."

You've really very little to say about those with whom you fly except the negative, and your posts generally portray you as antisocial in the cockpit. I've lost track of the number of times you post ridiculing your "first officers," to say nothing of roasting the captain. At least he had a type rating in the airplane and probably knew that one doesn't "abort" a takeoff in a Boeing.

As for the most desperate people on earth, I doubt you've seen much of the earth outside of google, but if you think it's a great story, that's what counts.

Maybe you'd like to change the thread title to "Captain is a Jerk."

Seriously though, about the negativity, he does seem to devote an inordinate amount of time trying to figure out who is the jerk, or whether so-and-so is a jerk. The number of threads he has started in that vein is just one indication of it.

 

[flightmedic]

I don't understand the whole scab thing - the first three days of a strike means you lose 100% of whatever you gain in the new contract. Striking makes zero sense financially and the claim is that you are striking for money . . .

If you don't want to work, your employer finds someone who does. You lose. Thats how it works. Unions exist to protect the financial wherewithal of their members - thats the only reason they exist today. You get bullied by your employer in a non-union environment you go work for someone else who treats you better - the ONLY reason you can't do that in the airline environment is because of unions and the seniority rules which set your work environment - if there were was no seniority system you could go work anywhere.

And your pay, benefits and work rules would be set by your competency and you would NEVER see idiots like the captain you complain about in the left seat . . .

but thats just my imho - flame me if you want - I'm sure you will.

Sorry, but as a Vice President IAFF Local 4337 I can tell we have not had a raise in four years and we have lost close to ten percent of our take-home pay and did not gripe one bit about it. Our position to the County is we are all in this together. These are hard economic times and we all know that. We have worked together to improve our hiring and promotional procedures, as well as some safety issues. Our Union also assisted the County to write some grants that brought in money for various equipment.

It is a shame there are so many out there bashing Unions when they really do not know how we are assisting, not hurting, our real bosses, which are the taxpayers.

 

[Rex Kramer]

The Lorenzo EA strike was in 1984, IIRC. A full Twenty-eight years ago.

Fy first civil transition instructor was an EA guy who was flying Cessnas once again.

WHAT an industry. sigh. May Lorenzo rot in h_ll eternally.

'89. The Lorenzo CAL strike was '83-'85.

They hire some real winners during a strike. Captain's story about his idiot captain scabbing at EAL is a perfect example.

 

[Captain]

In a Boeing, you reject a takeoff and abort an engine start. Great job "captain."

You've really very little to say about those with whom you fly except the negative, and your posts generally portray you as antisocial in the cockpit. I've lost track of the number of times you post ridiculing your "first officers," to say nothing of roasting the captain. At least he had a type rating in the airplane and probably knew that one doesn't "abort" a takeoff in a Boeing.

As for the most desperate people on earth, I doubt you've seen much of the earth outside of google, but if you think it's a great story, that's what counts.

Well, if Boeing says takeoffs are rejected and engine starts are aborted then I guess that's the way it is. I wonder if tower cares?


And yes, I suppose my posts do tend to lean toward the negative when telling stories. But that's because those are interesting. My tale of Captains and FO's I fly with that do great jobs and super impress me aren't really compelling. I'll keep it in mind though and if I can spin someone's great flying into an interesting story I'll share.

One thing about me you can not deny is my posts are compelling. The threads I start often go many pages with thousands of views. Must be doing something right by that metric.

 

[Palmpilot]

One thing about me you can not deny is my posts are compelling. The threads I start often go many pages with thousands of views. Must be doing something right by that metric.

Personally, I find some of your threads interesting, but I put others of your threads on Ignore. Nobody's perfect!

 

[Mafoo]

That's a myth. Apparently you haven't seen some of the one-sided stuff that some non-union employers impose on their employees. We also have no basis for assuming that non-union employers wouldn't treat their employees worse if there were no possibility of their being unionized.

I think you might fail to realize the quality of work environment people used to be subjected to.

Please give me an example in the US, where current working conditions warrant a union, because the workers personal rights are being violated?

Most unions today seem to focus on worker compensation, and less on unsafe working conditions.

 

[comanchepilot]

Yeah, because jobs are so plentiful today.

work is always plentiful for the competent tradesman . . . might be hard to get - but its out there.

 

[N801BH]

Sorry, but as a Vice President IAFF Local 4337 I can tell we have not had a raise in four years and we have lost close to ten percent of our take-home pay and did not gripe one bit about it. Our position to the County is we are all in this together. These are hard economic times and we all know that. We have worked together to improve our hiring and promotional procedures, as well as some safety issues. Our Union also assisted the County to write some grants that brought in money for various equipment.

It is a shame there are so many out there bashing Unions when they really do not know how we are assisting, not hurting, our real bosses, which are the taxpayers.

Up till now I have enjoyed all your posts in various threads...But....

Unions were needed back in the "coal mine" days where employers kiiled off the help instead of creating a safe working situation.. Along came OSHA and other agencies and safety was addressed to the point the job injuries /fatalities were reduced to a acceptable level....

Look at the education system.. We (the taxpayers) have increased the funding of schools 5 fold when the teachers union screamed they needed MORE money to hire better teachers.. What did we get. The US went from top honors in the world to 44 in student compentency... The only thing the unions want is a lavish pension for their rank and file and to hell with the fact the kids now are dumber then ever... The main reason they get this pulled off is the time lag between the incoming students till the problem is known.. By then the BAD teachers have worked and milked the system and are retired and sipping Margs on a beach somewhere.. The legacy costs associated with retirement plans will SINK this country.... IMHO.

 

[bbchien]

Sorry, but as a Vice President IAFF Local 4337 I can tell we have not had a raise in four years and we have lost close to ten percent of our take-home pay and did not gripe one bit about it. Our position to the County is we are all in this together. These are hard economic times and we all know that. We have worked together to improve our hiring and promotional procedures, as well as some safety issues. Our Union also assisted the County to write some grants that brought in money for various equipment.

It is a shame there are so many out there bashing Unions when they really do not know how we are assisting, not hurting, our real bosses, which are the taxpayers.

There are two sides to this. Many people who run small business have taken 50-80% net hits in the shorts. It depends on your point of view, entirely- not saying one is more valid than another.

4 years without a raise. It just depends. That my be a cause for feeling unjustly impinged, or it may be a "boo hoo hoo".

Have you talked recently to a younger than 30 year old pilot?

 

[comanchepilot]

Sorry, but as a Vice President IAFF Local 4337 I can tell we have not had a raise in four years and we have lost close to ten percent of our take-home pay and did not gripe one bit about it. Our position to the County is we are all in this together. These are hard economic times and we all know that. We have worked together to improve our hiring and promotional procedures, as well as some safety issues. Our Union also assisted the County to write some grants that brought in money for various equipment.

It is a shame there are so many out there bashing Unions when they really do not know how we are assisting, not hurting, our real bosses, which are the taxpayers.

I understand the frustration. I have not raised my fees since 2007. My insurance is up, my water, power, cable, phone, energy and every other bill is up and total hours billed is way down. So I get the loss of income. I have no union - I eat what I kill. No one protects me - no one sticks up for me and I am routinely savaged by people who don't understand how much work I do for free - like docs.

And While sometimes you don't strike about money - its ALWAYS about money. Work rules are about money. Work rule safety issues - about money. Benefits? About money. EVERYTHING is about money. The only other thing people strike over is power. And every single time a union has struck over 'power' = or 'matters of conscience' since 1980 its members have suffered sometimes for months. I can not safely conclude that such is ever worth it because sooner or later a company figures out how to undo a shift of power to unions or members back to the company - so you end up getting nothing. Heck - any company can file a pre-packaged bankruptcy and reorganize at pretty much any time and undo most of what you may have striked to do.

While I deeply respect the work police, firefighters, EMT's etc do I simply cannot agree with retirement with full pay and benefits at age 55 and in some cases age 50 - and the way with which counties hand out disability retirements, which cut the taxability of the affected benefits. It can be argued that the unions have nothing to do with that but they 'put' members of those boards into place often.

I know teachers in my school district have received no raises since 2007 while the cost of their benefits has gone up - which means they are paying 100% of the increase in cost of the benefits.

But Unions can not sit behind a 'negotiated agreement' in the face of the unfunded pension liabilities in government plans. If the money is not there - its not there. You can not force a government employer to tax its citizens to fund benefits - and unless you are prepared to organize the reduction of the insane benefits that governments have consented to your membership is going to suffer - and the ones who suffer most are those who are retired.

So lets have a discussion about getting these things to the talking stage. We're in this together - as a taxpayer I'm paying $10000 a year in property taxes, plus all the other other taxes I pay, excise taxes, gas taxes, tire taxes taxes on taxes and fees on taxes - I pay enough. Then there is the $25k in income tax I pay to my state. Its about the fluff - not the hard core services like police, fire and roads.

But back to aviation - i have a really good friend who is a 757/767 international captain for AA. He's 55. He's screwed. His pension will be cut back about 40%, he likely will be integrated into the US workforce at an unknown seniority position, his pay will be cut another 20-25%, but his international certification at least means he will be flying internationally since US has alot fewer internationally certified captains . . . .

The unions tried here with AA - but AA management could not get out of its own way. But - work rules did contribute ultimately to the companies demise . . .

 

[Captain]

Ahem,

This is not a union thread. I'm sorry I let my contempt for scabs bleed through into the OP. If you take the word scab out of the OP it's a story of an inept pilot acting retarded and the genisus of the tale came from the Captains issue with my calling it an aborted takeoff instead of a discontinued takeoff roll. Doug appears to agree with the retard, I'm not sure.

I'm a believer that an OP ceases to 'own' a thread the second someone else replies to it. I can't force a topic shift. But I'd really like this to not turn into (or continue to be) the same old tired pro / anti union debate, and am simply asking for a topic shift.

Thanks, I'll let it go now.

 

[Henning]

lol,

Maybe I pushed the scab thing too hard. I wasn't affected at all by the Eastern strike. It's the principle and there are unions today that would appreciate pilots not crossing their lines in the event of a strike.


I'm sorry if the take away from my post was a scab issue. It wasn't. I just tied that in out of spite.

Not only did it detract from the post, it makes you the jerk in the story, not him. You really have to work on your communications as you have a lot of trouble getting your point across with all your personal issues that distract from the point interjected all over. Most of your jerk stories show you as a jerk.

 

[Palmpilot]

Please give me an example in the US, where current working conditions warrant a union, because the workers personal rights are being violated?

I don't know whether I've seen cases of that or not, but that doesn't prove anything, because it doesn't make any sense to focus exclusively on violations of workers' personal rights. The problems I've seen have been more along the lines of rules that were unreasonable, but that the workers had no right to do anything about, because they didn't have a union contract to give them that right. And even in cases where the rules are legally unenforceable, it's usually not economically feasible for individual workers to hire a lawyer to pursue the matter in court.

There are some lines of work where you really do need a union. I'm pretty sure that you won't convince airline pilots, air traffic controllers, or most professional musicians that they don't need unions, for example.

 

[Henning]

Ahem,

This is not a union thread. I'm sorry I let my contempt for scabs bleed through into the OP. If you take the word scab out of the OP it's a story of an inept pilot acting retarded and the genisus of the tale came from the Captains issue with my calling it an aborted takeoff instead of a discontinued takeoff roll. Doug appears to agree with the retard, I'm not sure.

I'm a believer that an OP ceases to 'own' a thread the second someone else replies to it. I can't force a topic shift. But I'd really like this to not turn into (or continue to be) the same old tired pro / anti union debate, and am simply asking for a topic shift.

Thanks, I'll let it go now.

Right, and inept is not a synonym for jerk.

 

[Henning]

Up till now I have enjoyed all your posts in various threads...But....

Unions were needed back in the "coal mine" days where employers kiiled off the help instead of creating a safe working situation.. Along came OSHA and other agencies and safety was addressed to the point the job injuries /fatalities were reduced to a acceptable level....

Look at the education system.. We (the taxpayers) have increased the funding of schools 5 fold when the teachers union screamed they needed MORE money to hire better teachers.. What did we get. The US went from top honors in the world to 44 in student compentency... The only thing the unions want is a lavish pension for their rank and file and to hell with the fact the kids now are dumber then ever... The main reason they get this pulled off is the time lag between the incoming students till the problem is known.. By then the BAD teachers have worked and milked the system and are retired and sipping Margs on a beach somewhere.. The legacy costs associated with retirement plans will SINK this country.... IMHO.

Unions are not in and of themselves a bad thing. I just had to join AMO for this job which was not a bad deal and gives me training and accreditation benefits far in excess if my dues and assures the shipper up to date and properly trained mariners and safer operations.

 

[bbchien]

...maybe I pushed the scab thing too hard....

uh..huh....
It does make it appear that the "captain" is...........well it was your title.
Best always to post when totally sober.

 

[DouglasBader]

Well, if Boeing says takeoffs are rejected and engine starts are aborted then I guess that's the way it is. I wonder if tower cares?

Whether the tower cares or not, you ought to know the difference if you were qualified in the B727.

One thing about me you can not deny is my posts are compelling. The threads I start often go many pages with thousands of views. Must be doing something right by that metric.

If by "compelling" you mean one is compelled to laugh or snort, then perhaps so. If by "compelling" you mean that your posts are thought provoking or are in any way intellectually stimulating, then yes, I can absolutely deny that your posts are compelling.

If you think you're doing something right by stirring the pot with the inane and the negative, then perhaps you are, but you're likely in the minority.

 

[Captain]

Whether the tower cares or not, you ought to know the difference if you were qualified in the B727.



If by "compelling" you mean one is compelled to laugh or snort, then perhaps so. If by "compelling" you mean that your posts are thought provoking or are in any way intellectually stimulating, then yes, I can absolutely deny that your posts are compelling.

If you think you're doing something right by stirring the pot with the inane and the negative, then perhaps you are, but you're likely in the minority.

Ah...he likes me! He really really likes me!

 

[N801BH]

Unions are not in and of themselves a bad thing. I just had to join AMO for this job which was not a bad deal and gives me training and accreditation benefits far in excess if my dues and assures the shipper up to date and properly trained mariners and safer operations.

By your own admission you say you are getting " training and accreditation benefits far in excess if my dues "... Who do you think is funding your training?..

Yup, it is the general public through the avenue of increased shipping fees unions cause....

Why should I pay for your education .

 

[Henning]

By your own admission you say you are getting " training and accreditation benefits far in excess if my dues "... Who do you think is funding your training?..

Yup, it is the general public through the avenue of increased shipping fees unions cause....

Why should I pay for your education .

You pay for my training because you need qualified mariners, we're not as stupid as airplane jocks who will pay to get hired to minimum wage jobs.

The shipping pool that uses the union, they pay for it because without the union providing it, they will have to set up their own training department in accordance with STCW certification to do the training evolutions, same as airlines do. The difference is that commercial mariners aren't dumb enough to spend that kind of money. These companies are not obligated to use a union by any means, they can all ditch the union altogether. In this instance as in several others, the benefits the union brings to the employer are worth the costs.

Is there any state left where companies are obligated to go through unions?

 

[Everskyward]

Well, if Boeing says takeoffs are rejected and engine starts are aborted then I guess that's the way it is. I wonder if tower cares?

Actually the two terms appear to be interchangeable as far as takeoffs are concerned.

From a Boeing 757/767 study guide.

http://www.convectivedigital.com/guide/757-767 Study Guide.pdf

I have never heard anyone object to the use of the words "aborted takeoff". In fact our callout is, "abort, abort abort". Of course maybe Boeings are special but it doesn't seem so looking at various sources from Google.

It's also in the Pilot/Controller Glossary.

ABORT− To terminate a preplanned aircraft maneuver; e.g., an aborted takeoff.

REJECTED TAKEOFF

Prior to 80 knots, reject the takeoff for:
 Master Caution or Warning activation
 system failures
 unusual noise or vibration
 tire failure
 abnormally slow acceleration
 takeoff configuration warning
 a side window opening
 engine failure
 fire or fire warning
 predictive windshear caution or warning
 if the airplane is unsafe or unable to fly

After 80 knots and before V1, reject only for:
 engine failure
 fire or fire warning
 predictive windshear warning
 if the airplane is unsafe or unable to fly (“fire, failure, shear or fear”)

After V1, reject only:
 if the airplane is unsafe or unable to fly
Note: Eighty knots is the boundary between the low and high speed abort regimes.

Master Caution/Warning lights and the abort decision:
 due to the inhibit logic built into the system, if a Master Caution or a Master Warning light illuminates with an
aural confirmation prior to V1, abort the takeoff
 there are several conditions not monitored by the Master Caution/Warning system, such as engine failure and
smoke in the cockpit, that would require an abort without illumination of the Master Caution/Warning light, but if the light illuminates below V1 with aural confirmation, abort the takeoff

Cockpit indications for situations requiring an abort between 80 knots and V1:
 engine failure – there will not be a Master Warning for a simple engine failure. The primary indication will be
a directional control problem with supportive indications from the engine instruments and EICAS messages.
There may be a loud bang if the engine failure is preceded by a compressor stall.
 fire or fire warning – an engine, APU, wheel well or cargo fire indication will be accompanied by Master
Warning lights, the fire bell and EICAS messages. A fire in the cockpit, cabin or lav will have smoke or fumes
as the primary indication, although 757-300 aircraft have a LAV SMOKE light on the overhead panel.
 predictive windshear (if installed) – a predictive windshear warning will be indicated by the Master Warning
light, the red windshear light on the center panel, red WINDSHEAR on the ADI and HSI, and the “Windshear Ahead” aural warning. Note that new predictive windshear warnings are inhibited at 100 knots and will not display until 50' RA after takeoff. Therefore, a new predictive windshear warning can trigger an abort above 80 knots only if it occurs below 100 knots. Furthermore, new predictive windshear cautions are inhibited at 80 knots and will not display until 400' RA, so a new windshear caution should not display above 80 knots and should therefore not trigger an abort above 80 knots.
 airplane is unsafe or unable to fly – there is no definitive list, so the Captain must evaluate each situation individually, however EICAS indications should be used only as supportive information in conjunction with other primary abnormal indications
In summary, above 80 knots, abort only for severe directional control problems (engine failure), the Master Warning with aural confirmation (fire or windshear), smoke or fumes from a fire, or if the airplane won’t fly. EICAS messages should never be the only reason to initiate a high-speed abort.

Situations that normally would not require an abort above 80 knots:
 generator failure – the instruments will blank momentarily and numerous EICAS messages will appear, but
there will be no directional control problems or engine instrument abnormalities
 blown tire – a loud bang and light to moderate directional control problems without engine indication
abnormalities indicates a blown tire. Continue the takeoff unless an engine ingested parts of the tire causing an
engine failure or fire.
 compressor stall – compressor stalls can be minor or severe. A severe compressor stall, indicated by a loud
bang, light to moderate directional control problems and abnormal engine indications (basically, an engine failure), would warrant an abort above 80 knots, but a few pops without supporting engine indications could be a blown tire or some other problem. Continue the takeoff and figure it out at a safe altitude.
 flight deck window opening – a flight deck window opening does not warrant an abort above 80 knots. Continue the takeoff, refer to the QRH, and close the window at a safe altitude.

Dave Collett
March 29, 2012 www.convectivedigital.com/guide
13

 

[GCA319]

How long ago was the Eastern strike??

Get over it!!

Not an Airline pilot or union member, but the types that knowingly work struck work are generally not the types I like to surround myself with (i.e other personality issues besides having scabbed).

 

[DouglasBader]

Actually the two terms appear to be interchangeable as far as takeoffs are concerned.

From a Boeing 757/767 study guide.

That's not a boeing publication.

As for your company call-outs being different, it doesn't sound like you're flying a Boeing.

 

[Everskyward]

That's not a boeing publication.

As for your company call-outs being different, it doesn't sound like you're flying a Boeing.

It's also in the Pilot/Controller Glossary.

ABORT− To terminate a preplanned aircraft maneuver; e.g., an aborted takeoff.

 

[Henning]

Not an Airline pilot or union member, but the types that knowingly work struck work are generally not the types I like to surround myself with (i.e other personality issues besides having scabbed).

Poor, broke, and out of work? Yeah, they aren't much for surrounding yourself with...

 

[DouglasBader]

It's also in the Pilot/Controller Glossary.

What does the pilot-controller glossary have to do with Boeing's publications?

You stated that your company uses a different call-out, and then speculated on Boeing, indicating that you don't fly a Boeing.

You cited the pilot-controller glossary, which isn't a Boeing publication, either.

You cited a "study guide" made up by someone, which isn't a Boeing publication, either.

Why not cite a laundry list or recipe, too?

The "captain" used terminology that he wouldn't have used if he had the experience he indicated.

 

[GCA319]

Poor, broke, and out of work? Yeah, they aren't much for surrounding yourself with...

Yeahh...There was this one at the time gainfully employed Cargo guy I know (and am not a huge fan of personality wise) who crossed the EA picket line because he wanted a seat at a major airline, no other reason. This is a small industry and angering your future co-workers is not the way to get ahead in this business. It only hurts you in the long run (in any business for that matter). All this guy I know did was hurt a pilot group (and a friend of mine who hapened to have about 20 years under his belt as an EA capt at that time) only to end up out of work later on in the name of getting ahead.

 

[Everskyward]

What does the pilot-controller glossary have to do with Boeing's publications?

"Captain" was talking to a controller, not some Boeing guy when he said the takeoff was aborted, so the Pilot/Controller Glossary would be very relevant.

 

[Clark1961]

The "captain" used terminology that he wouldn't have used if he had the experience he indicated.

Yer funny...


and not in a good way...