Third Class Meidcal Exemption

No, it's not. It's more like being told by your parents that after careful consideration, they are no longer going to limit you to daytime driving to and from school/work, and you can now take the car out after dark for recreational purposes, but only solo and only if you're home by 10pm. Argue with such limitations, and it may be a lot longer before you get them to agree to anything else -- and they might even withdraw some privileges.
Actually, when the time came, I had to take the privileges away from my parents. It's hard but needed to be done. Likewise, it's time we took responsibility and pushed back on the FAA. Thankfully, for once, congress appears to be on our side. We shouldn't be thankful because it "could be worse" or the bureaucrats might get their feelings hurt. We should push to get what is right.
 
I would like to share my situation and get your opinion...

I'm a student pilot (about 40 hours in). In the first few months we worked mostly on manuevers (slow flight, stalls, steep turns, etc) and didn't do almost any pattern work so my landings are crappy, I have not soloed yet. I took my class 3 medical before I started training. I passed which was a little surprising since my vision in one eye is below standards (uncorrectable cornea damage, vision is 20/60 at best, sometimes worse). Anyway, I started trainig and then 3 months later, BAM! I got a letter from FAA Med Div saying that they "could not approve me at this time". It was not a denial just that they needed medical records about my condition. Why the hell did the AME approve me? I sent it to them, and after a lot of back and forth on more records, vision tests, etc, they sent me a decision which was that I need to take a medical test flight (SODA) with an FAA inspector. I have to do it before I can solo.

My question is this: if I put this off (I have until mid-Sept (6 months)) to complete it or request extension). If I put this off and lets say, the FAA does away with the 3rd class medical in lets say August, do you think the SODA will still be required? My concern is that if I take the soda and for some reason fail (lets say I miss spotting another plane or don't locate a suitable emergency landing spot quickly enough), that's it for me, I'm done forever. You only get one shot I believe. No do-overs. Is that correct? If I fail, I would think that even if they do away with the 3rd class med requirement, I'd still be screwed. But if I wait and let them do away with it before I take the SODA, could I get around the SODA requirement?

Thanks for your thoughts.
 
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I would like to share my situation and get your opinion...

I'm a student pilot (about 40 hours in). In the first few months we worked mostly on manuevers (slow flight, stalls, steep turns, etc) and didn't do almost any pattern work so my landings are crappy, I have not soloed yet. I took my class 3 medical before I started training. I passed which was a little surprising since my vision in one eye is below standards (uncorrectable cornea damage, vision is 20/60 at best, sometimes worse). Anyway, I started trainig and then 3 months later, BAM! I got a letter from FAA Med Div saying that they "could not approve me at this time". It was not a denial just that they needed medical records about my condition. Why the hell did the AME approve me? I sent it to them, and after a lot of back and forth on more records, vision tests, etc, they sent me a decision which was that I need to take a medical test flight (SODA) with an FAA inspector. I have to do it before I can solo.

My question is this: if I put this off (I have until mid-Sept (6 months)) to complete it or request extension). If I put this off and lets say, the FAA does away with the 3rd class medical in lets say August, do you think the SODA will still be required? My concern is that if I take the soda and for some reason fail (lets say I miss spotting another plane or don't locate a suitable emergency landing spot quickly enough), that's it for me, I'm done forever. You only get one shot I believe. No do-overs. Is that correct? If I fail, I would think that even if they do away with the 3rd class med requirement, I'd still be screwed. But if I wait and let them do away with it before I take the SODA, could I get around the SODA requirement?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Its all speculative at this point. But my gut feelings is that as far as FAA is concerned, your most recent exam ultimately did not result in the issuance of a medical upon FAA review. So assuming that the DL medical is ever extended to PP, if they use the same thinking as currently applies to SP, you won't be able to use a DL as a medical.

If you had never applied for the medical at all, then this would not be the case. But because you did, I suspect that you need to take the SODA ride, and then get a medical, after which you can let it expire if whatever restrictions come along with the DL medical are acceptable to you -- assuming that it ever happens.

Again, all of this is speculative.

-Rich
 
Do you actually view the FAA as a parental figure that we can't purposefully argue with through comments on NPRMs and our Congressional representatives with fear of reprisal?
No, but I do view them as an authority figure with the power to grant and limit my privileges much as my parents were when I was growing up. I've also learned in life that when someone in that position gives you something you ask for, the response most likely to obtain further privileges in the future is "Thank you" followed by responsible exercise of those new privileges, not "That's not enough -- I want more now."

Even if there is a good story about negotiating with ultimate authority in Genesis 18:16-33.
 
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I'm a student pilot (about 40 hours in). In the first few months we worked mostly on manuevers (slow flight, stalls, steep turns, etc) and didn't do almost any pattern work so my landings are crappy, I have not soloed yet. I took my class 3 medical before I started training. I passed which was a little surprising since my vision in one eye is below standards (uncorrectable cornea damage, vision is 20/60 at best, sometimes worse). Anyway, I started trainig and then 3 months later, BAM! I got a letter from FAA Med Div saying that they "could not approve me at this time". It was not a denial just that they needed medical records about my condition. Why the hell did the AME approve me?
Because s/he isn't a very good AME. If s/he keeps doing this, s/he won't be an AME any more.

I sent it to them, and after a lot of back and forth on more records, vision tests, etc, they sent me a decision which was that I need to take a medical test flight (SODA) with an FAA inspector. I have to do it before I can solo.
Unusual (usually they give you a "valid for Student Pilot privileges only" medical and don't do the SMFT for vision issues until you've completed your training), but not entirely unexpected given your condition.

My question is this: if I put this off (I have until mid-Sept (6 months)) to complete it or request extension). If I put this off and lets say, the FAA does away with the 3rd class medical in lets say August, do you think the SODA will still be required?
Yes, because you have already applied for the medical certificate, and if you don't complete the process, it will be denied.

My concern is that if I take the soda and for some reason fail (lets say I miss spotting another plane or don't locate a suitable emergency landing spot quickly enough), that's it for me, I'm done forever. You only get one shot I believe. No do-overs. Is that correct?
Not absolutely, but it's possible. So make sure you can do all the Tasks required by the section on the test for one-eyed flying before you take the SMFT (see below). That's where your instructor comes in -- s/he should take that section and drill you on it until your performance meets the standard.
4) Observe an applicant with a visual defect (one eye missing or one eye blind) demonstrate the following in an aircraft:
· The ability to select emergency landing fields at a distance, from high altitude, and preferably over unfamiliar terrain.
· The ability to simulate forced landings in difficult fields; note the manner of approach, rate of descent, and comparative distance at which obstructions (stumps, boulders, ditches, etc.) are recognized.
· The ability to recognize other aircraft (which may be present by prearrangement) approaching at a collision course (particularly aircraft approaching from the far right or far left).
· The ability to judge distances and to recognize landmarks (compared with the ASI's estimate).
· The ability to land the aircraft.
· The ability to read aeronautical charts in flight and tune the radio to a predetermined station accurately and rapidly.
· The ability to read instrument panels (including an overhead panel, if any) quickly and correctly.

That said, if you miss spotting one plane two miles away but pick up the other planes in the pattern with you, or pick something less than a perfect emergency landing field but still pick an adequate one, you're not going to fail.


If I fail, I would think that even if they do away with the 3rd class med requirement, I'd still be screwed.
To put it bluntly, if you can't pass the SMFT for one-eyed pilots, then you shouldn't be flying, because you would not be able to perform the necessary tasks well enough to be a safe pilot. So don't take the ride until your instructor says you're good enough to pass it.

But if I wait and let them do away with it before I take the SODA, could I get around the SODA requirement?
As the rules currently read, no. Of course, there's no telling what the NPRM I expect to come out within the next couple of months will say, but at this point, its almost impossible that the new rule will be final and in effect before your SMFT deadline, so you're pretty much locked into the current situation.
 
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No, but I do view them as an authority figure with the power to grant and limit my privileges much as my parents were when I was growing up.

My parents are not answerable to Congress, Courts and political pressures. The FAA cannot arrest me, at most they can remove or restrict a privilege within the confines set by regulations and laws over which they do not have complete control. They are not an "authority figure", they are a regulatory agency. This is a distinction with a difference.
 
No, but I do view them as an authority figure with the power to grant and limit my privileges much as my parents were when I was growing up. I've also learned in life that when someone in that position gives you something you ask for, the response most likely to obtain further privileges in the future is "Thank you" followed by responsible exercise of those new privileges, not "That's not enough -- I want more now."

Even if there is a good story about negotiating with ultimate authority in Genesis 18:16-33.

Much too sensible a post. Your supposed to say how terrible and restrictive the government ( FAA in this instance) is. The reason there are so many rules is due to many idiots flying beyond their capabilities which one can reference in the monthly accident reports.
 
Is there any news on this issue or just forum chit chat and arguing....?
 
Is there any news on this issue or just forum chit chat and arguing....?
As I said earlier, because this is in the rulemaking process, there won't be any news until the FAA announces the release of an NPRM. My information suggests that may come at AirVenture.
 
Unusual (usually they give you a "valid for Student Pilot privileges only" medical and don't do the SMFT for vision issues until you've completed your training), but not entirely unexpected given your condition.
They did send me a "valid for Student Pilot..." medical clearance. But I was told that I can't solo until I do the SODA.
 
I love how people are arguing about how an NPRM that doesn't exist yet, isn't good enough.
 
I love how people are arguing about how an NPRM that doesn't exist yet, isn't good enough.

I don't know if that exactly is happening. It seems to me people are speculating on what *might* be in it, and then comparing those expectations to what they think *should* be included/allowed under the NPRM.

Speculation is the normal and natural reaction to a lack of information.
 
I love how people are arguing about how an NPRM that doesn't exist yet, isn't good enough.

True...when we should be discussing the very precise language of the actual draft legislation. Even though the FAA want's to pat us on the head and tell us they'll take care of us, we should keep pressing our reps to put it in law. Reagan used to say "when you can get 90% of what you want, take it, then go back and get the rest"
 
For instance when the light sport aircraft criteria was written, turbine aircraft were intentionally not allowed. But the restriction was written to allow only aircraft with reciprocating engines. Electric powered aircraft were not allowed. Once we see the rules raising concerns such as that would be appropriate.
 
When people act as stupidly as children sometimes the government needs to act like parents. Not desirable, but stupidity never is.

No. We need to let those people learn the hard way or evolve out of existence. Children don't learn when they are over protected nor do substandard adults.
 
Do you actually view the FAA as a parental figure that we can't purposefully argue with through comments on NPRMs and our Congressional representatives with fear of reprisal?

You haven't read many of his posts, have you?

You've precisely described what I think his concept of the FAA is.
 
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No. We need to let those people learn the hard way or evolve out of existence. Children don't learn when they are over protected nor do substandard adults.

The problem is such people can damage others with their antics. That's where laws and government and stuff comes in. May not like it, but it is truly the way of the world. Far more desirable than vendettas.
 
The problem is such people can damage others with their antics. That's where laws and government and stuff comes in. May not like it, but it is truly the way of the world. Far more desirable than vendettas.
Not a vendetta. How species work, you should know that. Protecting the errant victim of stupid people weakens the species as a whole. We didn't get where we are by protecting the weak/stupid and the unfortunate taken out by the weak/stupid. Now that we have a helicopter government the empire is in decline.
 
I would like to share my situation and get your opinion...

I'm a student pilot (about 40 hours in). In the first few months we worked mostly on manuevers (slow flight, stalls, steep turns, etc) and didn't do almost any pattern work so my landings are crappy, I have not soloed yet. I took my class 3 medical before I started training. I passed which was a little surprising since my vision in one eye is below standards (uncorrectable cornea damage, vision is 20/60 at best, sometimes worse). Anyway, I started trainig and then 3 months later, BAM! I got a letter from FAA Med Div saying that they "could not approve me at this time". It was not a denial just that they needed medical records about my condition. Why the hell did the AME approve me? I sent it to them, and after a lot of back and forth on more records, vision tests, etc, they sent me a decision which was that I need to take a medical test flight (SODA) with an FAA inspector. I have to do it before I can solo.

My question is this: if I put this off (I have until mid-Sept (6 months)) to complete it or request extension). If I put this off and lets say, the FAA does away with the 3rd class medical in lets say August, do you think the SODA will still be required? My concern is that if I take the soda and for some reason fail (lets say I miss spotting another plane or don't locate a suitable emergency landing spot quickly enough), that's it for me, I'm done forever. You only get one shot I believe. No do-overs. Is that correct? If I fail, I would think that even if they do away with the 3rd class med requirement, I'd still be screwed. But if I wait and let them do away with it before I take the SODA, could I get around the SODA requirement?

Thanks for your thoughts.

Counting on an "if they pass this law" and assuming that the new rules won't contain the same FAA ass coverage that the sport pilot rules have seems like a real long shot. A bigger long shot than the SODA.

The rule for sport pilot includes:

"Have been found eligible for the issuance of at least a third-class airman medical certificate at the time of his or her most recent application (if the person has applied for a medical certificate);"

"Not have had his or her most recently issued medical certificate (if the person has held a medical certificate) suspended or revoked or most recent Authorization for a Special Issuance of a Medical Certificate withdrawn"

You really only have two options at this point - get the medical fixed or fly gliders.
 
As I said earlier, because this is in the rulemaking process, there won't be any news until the FAA announces the release of an NPRM. My information suggests that may come at AirVenture.

Hope that means they want to bring good news.....!
 
Not a vendetta. How species work, you should know that. Protecting the errant victim of stupid people weakens the species as a whole. We didn't get where we are by protecting the weak/stupid and the unfortunate taken out by the weak/stupid. Now that we have a helicopter government the empire is in decline.

When the stupid hurt me, what is my recourse? With a strong government I can use the laws and courts as a recourse. Absent the law, all I have is my own aegis and vendetta. Of course, once I take out my vendetta against the stupid who hurt me (or his or her family), they will have a vendetta against me and mine. That's how people act in the absence of strong governments and laws.
 
When the stupid hurt me, what is my recourse? With a strong government I can use the laws and courts as a recourse. Absent the law, all I have is my own aegis and vendetta. Of course, once I take out my vendetta against the stupid who hurt me (or his or her family), they will have a vendetta against me and mine. That's how people act in the absence of strong governments and laws.
The gov't as equalizer and enforcer of social norms only works among those that are afraid or choose to play along. Some judgement proof dirtbag takes out a fine upstanding member of society and the gov't doesn't do much. Still have consent of the governed. Sort of, you can opt out by choosing certain lifestyles.
 
I am sure that the people I know in Flight Standards want to do that. The only real question is whether the wheels can grind fast enough to make it happen -- NPRM's don't just happen overnight.

Cap'n
how do you see this affecting instructors without medicals (not lsa) if it should pass?
 
Cap'n
how do you see this affecting instructors without medicals (not lsa) if it should pass?
My guess is just like the pilots -- Day VFR only, aircraft limits, etc. Now, will people with only a DL be able to act as safety pilots (which also affects instructors giving instrument training)? :dunno:
 
I hope that GAPPA would include provisions to allow student pilots training for the PPL to use a drivers license medical, instead of having to get a 3rd class medical first before soloing and taking the PPL checkride, then have the medical lapse and fly using a DL medical.
 
I hope that GAPPA would include provisions to allow student pilots training for the PPL to use a drivers license medical, instead of having to get a 3rd class medical first before soloing and taking the PPL checkride, then have the medical lapse and fly using a DL medical.
I expect the regulatory language would read about the same as that for Sport Pilot and Student Sport Pilot. Where that would leave you is something you would have to discuss with your personal physician to determine whether or not you can safely act as PIC in those operations with those aircraft, and how your instructor feels about your actual performance in the aircraft.
 
Some night flight is required for a PPL currently, so that's probably the biggest thing that would have to be worked out.
 
Some night flight is required for a PPL currently, so that's probably the biggest thing that would have to be worked out.
I don't think it will "have to be worked out" -- I think they'll just say you have to get another instructor who is legal to act as PIC at night to conduct that part of your training.
 
When the stupid hurt me, what is my recourse? With a strong government I can use the laws and courts as a recourse. Absent the law, all I have is my own aegis and vendetta. Of course, once I take out my vendetta against the stupid who hurt me (or his or her family), they will have a vendetta against me and mine. That's how people act in the absence of strong governments and laws.

That's the proper role of the courts, not the executive branch. If somebody harms you, you can seek restitution through the courts. If you harm yourself, well...there is no branch of the government with the responsibility to protect you from yourself.

After all, you are always in a unique position to do harm to yourself that can't be mitigated without putting all citizens in straitjackets and giving them a healthy dose of thorazine.
 
That's the proper role of the courts, not the executive branch. If somebody harms you, you can seek restitution through the courts. If you harm yourself, well...there is no branch of the government with the responsibility to protect you from yourself.

After all, you are always in a unique position to do harm to yourself that can't be mitigated without putting all citizens in straitjackets and giving them a healthy dose of thorazine.

Yet people get charged with careless and reckless behavior when they are the only ones who could be hurt. We be down the rabbit hole.
 
I don't think it will "have to be worked out" -- I think they'll just say you have to get another instructor who is legal to act as PIC at night to conduct that part of your training.


I meant if the PPL candidate didn't have a medical (because it's not required for Day VFR). Ok, I guess in that case a CFI with a medical could act as PIC.

There is no "solo" night time required for the PPL, right?
 
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