Thinking of installing a DME

weirdjim said:
I'll bet for half an AMU or so some Garmin shop will let somebody "borrow" the manual for a week. Then copy it. Then transfer it to a CDROM. Turn around and RENT the CDROM for a tenth of an AMU a week. Everybody makes a buck except the other Garmin shops.

Always a way around the back door of a problem.

Jim
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:confused: How do home builders get the info?:dunno:
 
Henning said:
:confused: How do home builders get the info?:dunno:
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To the best of my knowledge, Garmin will only sell through the installing dealer. Homebuilders get to go through the dealer for purchase AND installation.

Corrections to my knowledge appreciated.

Jim
 
I have an Apollo GX55 GPS unit that was working when we removed it for our 430 swap.

It's IFR enroute approved, and I have an extra data card to it if anyone is interested.:dunno:
 
James331 said:
Google would be my guess.

I have a better one at home, but little Google fu


http://www.mstewart.net/Downloads/GNS430_IM.pdf
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CTLSi said:
Sure it does, it lets him shoot GPS approaches, and is far easier to nav between VORs if he must do the old fashioned thing. All the Jeppeson plates are in them also.

We assume he has a Navcom radio and CDI already of some kind.
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If you can show me a 696 or 796 that can load an approach, I'll give you a lead on some wonderful beachfront property in Tucson.
 
GCA319 said:
If you can show me a 696 or 796 that can load an approach, I'll give you a lead on some wonderful beachfront property in Tucson.
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696 has approaches, you just can't use it to navigate by (situational awareness only).
 
flyingron said:
696 has approaches, you just can't use it to navigate by (situational awareness only).
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Huh...Didn't know that. Since I said "load an approach" and not "fly an approach", I guess I'll have to start looking for that beachfront property in Tucson...:D
 
peerlesscowboy said:
A DME is in fact very useful, and the KN-64 would fit your stack quite nicely.
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Agreed but even a non-approach IFR GPS is far more useful and not all that much more money. I second the notion of saving up and going with at least a KLN-94 which will do approaches without vertical guidance. It will also do almost anything a DME can do except make an approach that requires DME available as an alternate.

I have a KN64 in my panel for two reasons. One is that it was there before I got an IFR GPS and the other is so I have an easy way to maintain situational awareness if the whole GPS constellation goes TU (I have at least 4 GPS receivers in the airplane counting portables). But other than checking to see if it still works once every year I haven't even turned it on for many years.
 
Yeah but if the military has entirely bailed out of TACAN (and they're tending to do so incrementally), your DME likely won't be too interesting with the few FAA-maintained DMEs.
 
flyingron said:
Yeah but if the military has entirely bailed out of TACAN (and they're tending to do so incrementally), your DME likely won't be too interesting with the few FAA-maintained DMEs.
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Actually, DME's are going to be around for the foreseeable future. Even with the FAA plan to eliminate about half of the VOR's in the system, the DME's will be staying and the FAA has plans to increase the numbers of DME's to provide for better DME/DME RNAV support.
 
gismo said:
Agreed but even a non-approach IFR GPS is far more useful and not all that much more money.
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a used DME can be had for $600 and can be installed with 3 wires and a sign-off from your local A&P. The cheapest ifr GPS installation is substantially more.
 
JHW said:
a used DME can be had for $600 and can be installed with 3 wires and a sign-off from your local A&P. The cheapest ifr GPS installation is substantially more.
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You might find a KN64 for $600 but $1000-1500 is more likely. The install is likely a lot more involved than hooking up 3 wires. At the very least you have to add an antenna and it goes in an area that can be difficult to access in many airplanes and the antenna cable has to be fabricated and run. You'll get more usefulness if it's channeled to one or both nav radios, the audio should be connected to the audio panel, and just mounting the tray could be half a day's work.

By the same measure a KLN94 could be just as "simple" to install if you leave out the CDI restricting the use to enroute and DME substitution. If it's mounted close to the flight instruments no remote annunciator is required. You'll need power and ground plus antenna connections just like the DME. No audio connection but if you want approach capability a connection to a dedicated indicator (more $$) or (through a multi-pole relay) to an existing indicator.

I do agree that it will cost more to install a KLN94 than a DME but even at twice the price it offers more per dollar.
 
gismo said:
You might find a KN64 for $600 but $1000-1500 is more likely. The install is likely a lot more involved than hooking up 3 wires. At the very least you have to add an antenna and it goes in an area that can be difficult to access in many airplanes and the antenna cable has to be fabricated and run. You'll get more usefulness if it's channeled to one or both nav radios, the audio should be connected to the audio panel, and just mounting the tray could be half a day's work.

By the same measure a KLN94 could be just as "simple" to install if you leave out the CDI restricting the use to enroute and DME substitution. If it's mounted close to the flight instruments no remote annunciator is required. You'll need power and ground plus antenna connections just like the DME. No audio connection but if you want approach capability a connection to a dedicated indicator (more $$) or (through a multi-pole relay) to an existing indicator.

I do agree that it will cost more to install a KLN94 than a DME but even at twice the price it offers more per dollar.
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my point is that anyone local can install the DME. To get your paperwork right for the gps requires paying someone at an avionics shop. Plus, CDI aside the gps is going to need an annunciator. It's a whole lot of work compared to a dme, I've installed both myself in my planes. Putting in a dme is literally a morning's task; a gps is a weekend plus a couple evenings

but on the topic of cheap gps's, IMO the early garmin boxes (300/300XL) have an interface that is much better than the horrible king units. The map or lack thereof doesn't really come into play these days - we all have maps on our tablets and the cdi is the "real" nav regardness. I put a no-map 300 in my travel air, and i can't think of any other way to go from /A to /G with an all-in cost less than $3k
 
JHW said:
a used DME can be had for $600 and can be installed with 3 wires and a sign-off from your local A&P. The cheapest ifr GPS installation is substantially more.
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We had a used KLN-89B installed in a square tail 172 for 2K included everything. IFR certified and all.... It can be done on the cheap, just takes patience and a relationship with a shop.

We just had to wait until someone wanted to upgrade... It was more than 600 and three wires, but not that much more.
 
JHW said:
my point is that anyone local can install the DME. To get your paperwork right for the gps requires paying someone at an avionics shop. Plus, CDI aside the gps is going to need an annunciator. It's a whole lot of work compared to a dme, I've installed both myself in my planes. Putting in a dme is literally a morning's task; a gps is a weekend plus a couple evenings

but on the topic of cheap gps's, IMO the early garmin boxes (300/300XL) have an interface that is much better than the horrible king units. The map or lack thereof doesn't really come into play these days - we all have maps on our tablets and the cdi is the "real" nav regardness. I put a no-map 300 in my travel air, and i can't think of any other way to go from /A to /G with an all-in cost less than $3k
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Other than the slight increase in complexity I see no reason why a A&P cannot install a GPS. Also some IFR GPS units do not require a separate annunciator as long as the GPS is close to the flight instruments. The KLN94 is such a unit.

As to the "horrible King units" the '94 has one of the nicer user interfaces around (you're probably thinking of the 89B which was likely the worst ever).
 
gismo said:
Other than the slight increase in complexity I see no reason why a A&P cannot install a GPS. Also some IFR GPS units do not require a separate annunciator as long as the GPS is close to the flight instruments. The KLN94 is such a unit.

As to the "horrible King units" the '94 has one of the nicer user interfaces around (you're probably thinking of the 89B which was probably the worst ever).
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you can't make it IFR legal without a shop that can sign off the flight manual supplement, etc
 
JHW said:
you can't make it IFR legal without a shop that can sign off the flight manual supplement, etc
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Not true. An IA can sign off the installation and if the equipment only has a sample AFMS it needs field approval via attaching it to a 337 and sending it to the FSDO. If the equipment has an STC and AML, then no one signs the AFMS is already FAA approved, so it is just printed out and the N number is entered in the title page. Again, any IA can sign off the STC with a 337, directly filed with Oklahoma City.
 
Interesting - last time I had contact with my FSDO over an IFR certified GPS install on an Aztec it had to have the install signed off by a certified repair/radio station and had to be inspected by the FSDO.
Things may have changed (shrug) ymmv
Best you get the opinion of either a certified shop or your fsdo before doing it yourself.
 
Dr. O said:
Interesting - last time I had contact with my FSDO over an IFR certified GPS install on an Aztec it had to have the install signed off by a certified repair/radio station and had to be inspected by the FSDO.
Things may have changed (shrug) ymmv
Best you get the opinion of either a certified shop or your fsdo before doing it yourself.
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Things have gotten a bit more relaxed WRT IFR GPS signoffs. I had a KLN89B installed when they first hit the market and there were plenty of hoops that don't exist today.
 
Hi. Please advice, just got kn 64 from ebay. Soldered 2-3, to 12v and 1-15 to ground (used car power outlet). Although it powers on and allows to roll frequency, miles stay (---) even on airfield when tuned to its vortac. this is with ka-60 antenna. what do i miss? should i ground 1-15 to dock? Just dont want to install something that will turn out to be dead.
Thank you
 
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