Thinking about tree removal...

[Clark1961]

Is there anything around that the tree can fall on? If not, send me some photos, I might get a wild hair, come out and cut it down for you. I drop trees all the time.

It'd be a fun trip!



Depends if Clark's tree is an "urban tree" or not. Around here sawmills won't touch urban trees because there's too much of a chance that there's barbed wired, nails, etc. in it that will trash their sawmill blade. Also, there's typically way too many branches on urban trees (i.e. knots in the log) to allow the logs to be of any value. Those are Midwest hardwood centric comments...have no idea what Clark has.

They are Ted's trees. I just started the thread as a bit of satire. That there may have been one or two contributions which may be useful to Ted is purely incidental to the intent of the thread and no responsibility can be accepted or assigned. Furthermore no injuries, real or otherwise, which folks attempt to assign to this thread will be tolerated. Guido or Tim will enforce the last provision.

 

[Ted]

Is there anything around that the tree can fall on? If not, send me some photos, I might get a wild hair, come out and cut it down for you. I drop trees all the time.

It'd be a fun trip!

As Clark mentioned, this is actually about my trees for the runway we're planning on putting in. About 30 or so total roughly. We're getting started, would love to have you come visit and do a better job than me!

 

[Clark1961]

I'm seeing double. Do I have to report that on my next medical?

 

[Ted]

I'm seeing double. Do I have to report that on my next medical?

You must be seeing things.

 

[Clark1961]

You must be seeing things.

I have seen things.

 

[James331]

Depends if Clark's tree is an "urban tree" or not. Around here sawmills won't touch urban trees because there's too much of a chance that there's barbed wired, nails, etc. in it that will trash their sawmill blade. Also, there's typically way too many branches on urban trees (i.e. knots in the log) to allow the logs to be of much value. Those are Midwest hardwood centric comments...have no idea what Clark has.

Makes sense, I'm the same way with urban people

 

[Cooter]

As Clark mentioned, this is actually about my trees for the runway we're planning on putting in. About 30 or so total roughly. We're getting started, would love to have you come visit and do a better job than me!

30 trees, hire a dozer. Then let a local come cut them up for firewood.

 

[Ted]

30 trees, hire a dozer. Then let a local come cut them up for firewood.

Might be the way to do it. Watching some of these dozers work certainly is impressive.

I'm also thinking that it might be better to start off working with what we've got for most of these things to chop the trees down and pull them out of the way, then use a dozer for the stumps, knowing what our property is like.

 

[steingar]

If the trees are hardwoods the wood might even be worth something. My one pal wit the airstrip I was describing had black walnut trees taken out to make his strip. The wood paid for the strip, hangar and control tower. And he paneled his study in it.

 

[Clark1961]

Might be the way to do it. Watching some of these dozers work certainly is impressive.

I'm also thinking that it might be better to start off working with what we've got for most of these things to chop the trees down and pull them out of the way, then use a dozer for the stumps, knowing what our property is like.

A cat will tear up the ground. Not a problem if the ground requires work to make it a suitable runway. Big problem if you weren't planning on a lot of earthmoving.

 

[Ted]

A cat will tear up the ground. Not a problem if the ground requires work to make it a suitable runway. Big problem if you weren't planning on a lot of earthmoving.

Yeah, that's the other consideration. Really this ground isn't too bad. It's not like Gaston's, but it's better than other grass strips I've seen.

I think we'll stick to our initial plan of chop down the trees and move them away with what we have. That'll make it easy to have a clear picture of what we're working with and what the best way to clear it is.

 

[Ted]

Also, these trees are nothing special, and likely not worth anything other than firewood. Stumps aren't very thick lots of knots, etc.

 

[Cooter]

Yeah, that's the other consideration. Really this ground isn't too bad. It's not like Gaston's, but it's better than other grass strips I've seen.

I think we'll stick to our initial plan of chop down the trees and move them away with what we have. That'll make it easy to have a clear picture of what we're working with and what the best way to clear it is.

Depending on what you have to work with and the size of the trees, it's going to be a lot of work. If you want to move the trees, you'll have to remove the tops, then you have to deal with the tops. You won't want to burn the tops anywhere that you want grass to grow so you'll need to push them or pick them up. The trunks are a lot of weight and you'll need a loader at each end of the haul. Plus, if you're not working with experienced people, it's easy to get someone or something pinched lifting and loading the logs. And it's easy to damage your equipment if you don't chain them right.

I've moved a lot of trees and in the Fall when the weather is nice, I don't mind extra work. But for efficiency's sake, a dozer can have it looking nice in half a day. I try to do my own work when I can, but sometimes a little money goes a long way. This time of year a dozer won't hurt the ground. Later in the winter they might, but just make it clear that they need to leave it level and without ruts.

 

[Cooter]

I also don't want to discourage you from doing it yourself. It can be a good way to learn new skills. I just wanted to offer some of my lessons learned.

Edit to add: the only way to deal with stumps is to dig them up or push them out. They won't decay anytime soon. And when they do, the ground will sink. It's best to get them out, then level the ground. They are a pain, and there isn't any shortcuts I know of. I burn some if I'm not in a hurry, but even that takes time.

 

[SkyDog58]

If the trees are hardwoods the wood might even be worth something. My one pal wit the airstrip I was describing had black walnut trees taken out to make his strip. The wood paid for the strip, hangar and control tower. And he paneled his study in it.

I imagine that would be a rare case though I don't really know. Still, pretty cool if it can work out that way.

 

[Mike Smith]

If you just cut this shape < into it won't it fall that way ->

That is not necessarily true. It can be true, but not always. Where is the weight of the limbs? If more weight is opposite the notch, the tree will fall that way, generally. There are other factors.

 

[Ted]

@Cooter I understand and appreciate the insight.

We've got an Allis Chalmers D19 with a front end loader that has spikes on it. It hauls trees of the size we're dealing with pretty well. Generally need to cut the thing in half and then drag it across the ground if they're more than around 20-25' tall, which some of these are but most aren't. Leaves a bit of a mark on the ground, but nothing too bad. The tahrs on the D19 are a lot easier on the ground than a dozer. We've got other tractors (Massey Ferguson 165 and Farmall H) that can drag some of the smaller bits around, but really the D19 is the best of the bunch for any moving/dragging.

Chainsaw, the #1 we have is a 20" bar Jonsered (rebadged Husqvarna for TSC) that does a good job and makes quick work overall. Got an old 14" Poulan as well (my wife had that when we got married) that we never use, but works fine for small items. Actually the Poulan hasn't wanted to start for a while, need to look into why that is I suppose.

We have a bonfire each year in April, and have a designated bonfire area on our property for the burn wood. So basically we expect grass to never grow there again. As soon as one year's bonfire is over, we start putting more wood on the pile for next year. We've got a few corners of the property where we can easily keep wood that we'll use for the next year where it's out of the way of anything we see or do, and out of the way of where the runway will be.

Also definitely agree on safety - that's top priority and it's real easy to die fast if you're careless working around this stuff. We're inviting some friends out to help, but not going to just hand someone a chainsaw and say "Go chop down that 50' tall, 24" diameter tree over there that's right next to the house." Mostly the social aspect will be for fun and to have some extra hands with some of the easier bits that need cleared.

The other aspect is making sure we remove the exact trees we want. We have a pretty good idea but reality is that once we get the basic runway layout cleared we won't know. We'll probably chop down some additional trees to give more width. So from that perspective, chopping the trees down first makes sense and then if we're going to pay a dozer, we'll be able to basically pay it for the job of pulling the stumps and doing any ground leveling all at once.

That is not necessarily true. It can be true, but not always. Where is the weight of the limbs? If more weight is opposite the notch, the tree will fall that way, generally. There are other factors.

Correct. Knowing which way the tree will want to fall is important for simple tree felling. Sometimes you have more complex situations where it needs to fall the opposite direction of where it wants to. That gets harder.

 

[Cooter]

@Cooter I understand and appreciate the insight.

We've got an Allis Chalmers D19 with a front end loader that has spikes on it. It hauls trees of the size we're dealing with pretty well. Generally need to cut the thing in half and then drag it across the ground if they're more than around 20-25' tall, which some of these are but most aren't. Leaves a bit of a mark on the ground, but nothing too bad. The tahrs on the D19 are a lot easier on the ground than a dozer. We've got other tractors (Massey Ferguson 165 and Farmall H) that can drag some of the smaller bits around, but really the D19 is the best of the bunch for any moving/dragging.

Chainsaw, the #1 we have is a 20" bar Jonsered (rebadged Husqvarna for TSC) that does a good job and makes quick work overall. Got an old 14" Poulan as well (my wife had that when we got married) that we never use, but works fine for small items. Actually the Poulan hasn't wanted to start for a while, need to look into why that is I suppose.

We have a bonfire each year in April, and have a designated bonfire area on our property for the burn wood. So basically we expect grass to never grow there again. As soon as one year's bonfire is over, we start putting more wood on the pile for next year. We've got a few corners of the property where we can easily keep wood that we'll use for the next year where it's out of the way of anything we see or do, and out of the way of where the runway will be.

Also definitely agree on safety - that's top priority and it's real easy to die fast if you're careless working around this stuff. We're inviting some friends out to help, but not going to just hand someone a chainsaw and say "Go chop down that 50' tall, 24" diameter tree over there that's right next to the house." Mostly the social aspect will be for fun and to have some extra hands with some of the easier bits that need cleared.

The other aspect is making sure we remove the exact trees we want. We have a pretty good idea but reality is that once we get the basic runway layout cleared we won't know. We'll probably chop down some additional trees to give more width. So from that perspective, chopping the trees down first makes sense and then if we're going to pay a dozer, we'll be able to basically pay it for the job of pulling the stumps and doing any ground leveling all at once.



Correct. Knowing which way the tree will want to fall is important for simple tree felling. Sometimes you have more complex situations where it needs to fall the opposite direction of where it wants to. That gets harder.

Sounds like you've got a good plan. I enjoy that kind of work when I have time. I'm pretty busy or I'd join TW's offer to come help.

Last bit of advice. Never hitch above the axle to drag anything, even small stuff. It can snag and flip you in a hurry. Always hitch as low as you can. Good luck!

 

[PaulS]

Good thing you are not around here, trees are like sacred cows in India.

 

[Ted]

Last bit of advice. Never hitch above the axle to drag anything. Always hitch as low as you can. Good luck!

That's for sure!

Like I said, I really only move things with the Allis Chalmers. Pick it up with the front end loader and either drive like that or sometimes drag it in reverse depending. Dragging with the others is rare. Don't want to flip them over. A lot of times I prefer dragging things in reverse for that reason. Also got the F-350 (until we sell it).

Good thing you are not around here, trees are like sacred cows in India.

 

[weilke]

Point taken on that. So how would you recommend going about it? I still feel like cutting the trees down ourselves makes it easier to do something else with the stumps (whatever that may be), but I could be wrong.

Fell trees in Jan, cut up and move the good wood with the tractor. Pile the small stuff. In the wet season, rent medium sized excavator for a wrekend, dig up all the stumps and pile them with the brush. Rent dozer or big skiid-steer for a day to grade the mess you made. In october, obtain burn permit, invite all your friends. Pour gas/diesel mix around pile, light from 50 yards away with a flaming arrow. Enjoy the bonfire !

It'll settle for another year or two, may require some more passes to re-grade until it's really done.

 

[weilke]

He let his 2 and 5 year-olds stand within the felling circle? Wow, dumbazz indeed.

Yup. Dumbassery. He didn't send them away with the wife and they came out of the house while he was busy chewing away at the tree.

 

[Ted]

Fell trees in Jan, cut up and move the good wood with the tractor. Pile the small stuff. In the wet season, rent medium sized excavator for a wrekend, dig up all the stumps and pile them with the brush. Rent dozer or big skiid-steer for a day to grade the mess you made. In october, obtain burn permit, invite all your friends. Pour gas/diesel mix around pile, light from 50 yards away with a flaming arrow. Enjoy the bonfire !

It'll settle for another year or two, may require some more passes to re-grade until it's really done.

We're planning for felling trees over the next few months as time allows. More or less we're looking at following your pattern, except we have our bonfires in April. I think you're on point about the fact that the ground will do some more settling and probably require a couple of rounds. May also get damaged from other use.

 

[Zeldman]

Good thing you are not around here, trees are like sacred cows in India.

Where I live, what are trees..???

 

[Ted]

Yup. Dumbassery. He didn't send them away with the wife and they came out of the house while he was busy chewing away at the tree.

Another aspect is how much those kids had been exposed to things like chainsaws that could kill them with firm "STAY BACK!" instructions.

Tractors are a fact of life here, so are chainsaws. Our kids are really good about staying away from tractors, moving vehicles, chainsaws, etc. when they're in use. Most kids don't get that sort of exposure so they're very curious and don't understand the dangers.

By comparison, I don't trust my kids at all in New York City. They're used to being able to run out the door and have 11 acres where they don't have to worry about getting hit by a bus. Walk 20 feet out my mom's front door and BAM the M96 crosstown bus will will turn you into a pancake. The kids are not safe at all there. At their age, though. I was. Mom taught me very strict rules about how to not get run over.

Kids usually need to get taught what will kill them, and thus they learn what they're exposed to. I bet in the age 2-5 range I wouldn't have had much of a clue about staying back from chainsaws, just like my kids (in that same range) don't understand the dangerous of the crosstown bus.

 

[Chip Sylverne]

I cleared 20ac of woods for pasture a few years ago. Got quotes of $40k, so I figured I'd just buy a track loader and do it myself. Trees avg 2 foot or so diameter Red Oak. Bought an old Cat 977, 22 tons of steel and diesel power for around $9k. Still have it. Wasn't a tree on the place that put up much of an argument. A few things I learned, in addition to being wary of dead trees. It's a lot easier to push the tree over whole, (push, then lever with the bucket. Dig around the root if the tree is particularly large first ) rather than try and grub out the stumps later. Just lift the trunk and have a saw man on the ground lop off the root ball. I buried all my stumps, they don't burn well. You can hire a monster tub grinder and turn them into mulch, but it's expensive, and in my case I would have had a mountain of the stuff. If you bury,, bury thderp or the ground will settle. Make sure you have a ROPS or other substantial steel over head. Limbs drop off even live trees. You 're also going to want a root rake to clean up the ground without stripping all all the topsoil.
I did a 50/50 deal with a local sawmill for fence boards and posts from the Locust trees. A firewood dealer took the larger limbs bought by the truckload. The rest of the brush got burned.
Took the better part of the summer. Watch out for Bees!

 

[overdrive148]

 

[azblackbird]

Give me 2 hours with a D11 and I'll have your runway cut. Give me another 6 hours with a 160H and a few semi loads of sieved gravel and I'll have your runway as smooth as glass. I used to build drilling pads and location roads for oil well sites. A simple runway like you're proposing would be a walk in the park.

 

[mscard88]

My experience with stumps is that if you cut down a living tree, it takes 1 - 4 years to completely die, and another year or two after it dies to really dry out. By all means, give the drilling, fertilizer, and burning thing a try, but if you don't get the results you like, don't forget about the stump grinder. Granted, a 25 hp grinder will cost upwards of $300 per day, but it gets a lot of work done quickly. If you're planting grass on top of the stump site, you want to grind it 8 or 10 inches below the surface, and it's very difficult to do that without a grinder.

I hired a guy to grind 2 very large stumps and a smaller stump a few years ago, $150.00. Big machine and did it quick.

As they rot underground, I have to add small amounts of soil to keep it level as they're all in the front yard.

Years ago helping the Chief Pilot cut down trees on his property, one tree was kinda close to his brand new chain link fence. He told me to cut it, I said fk no you do it, he 'do it' and 'it do' land right on the fence. Laughed my ass off at him. Told ya!

 

[Cooter]

It's a lot easier to push the tree over whole, (push, then lever with the bucket. Dig around the root if the tree is particularly large first ) rather than try and grub out the stumps later.

Very true. For a large tree, it takes a lot of digging to uproot the stump (especially if the roots have had space to spread out), and without the leverage of the whole tree, they are hard to uproot.