Thinking about NORDO & ADIZ

[jdwatson]

As I was nearing FAK (Flat Rock VOR) on my trip to KPOU, I thought about what I would do if I went NORDO or worse (complete electrical failure). I'm approaching one of the busiest airspaces and approach corridors, surrounded by ADIZ and F-16s, add in that I'm IMC 50% of the time and dodge build-ups the other 50%.

My mantra until landing at KFDK was, "Let's not make the news today." I kept my handheld radio (with spare battery pack) and my Garmin 96C ready to go just in case.

With those factors, I'm not sure I would have complied with AVEF MEA if I went NORDO. I was torn between the NORDO procedures and trying my best to get in touch with ATC, preferably on the ground, as soon as I could have. Maybe at KCHO or KRIC.

I think I would have made the evening news if I flew FAK LURAY MRB EMI FDK without ATC contact. I imagined holding over EMI until my ETA then shooting the ILS-6 to a very busy KFDK. Not a pretty picture in my head. The more I thought about it the more I appreciated my Bride's gift of the 96C.

What would you have done if you were NORDO nearing the ADIZ ?

P.S. I would consider this type of failure an emergency and use my PIC to declare as such.

 

[wsuffa]

As I was nearing FAK (Flat Rock VOR) on my trip to KPOU, I thought about what I would do if I went NORDO or worse (complete electrical failure). I'm approaching one of the busiest airspaces and approach corridors, surrounded by ADIZ and F-16s, add in that I'm IMC 50% of the time and dodge build-ups the other 50%.

My mantra until landing at KFDK was, "Let's not make the news today." I kept my handheld radio (with spare battery pack) and my Garmin 96C ready to go just in case.

With those factors, I'm not sure I would have complied with AVEF MEA if I went NORDO. I was torn between the NORDO procedures and trying my best to get in touch with ATC, preferably on the ground, as soon as I could have. Maybe at KCHO or KRIC.

I think I would have made the evening news if I flew FAK LURAY MRB EMI FDK without ATC contact. I imagined holding over EMI until my ETA then shooting the ILS-6 to a very busy KFDK. Not a pretty picture in my head. The more I thought about it the more I appreciated my Bride's gift of the 96C.

What would you have done if you were NORDO nearing the ADIZ ?

P.S. I would consider this type of failure an emergency and use my PIC to declare as such.

If you were NORDO near the ADIZ, I'd stay as far clear as possible. Your routing LURAY MRB EMI FDK is clear of the ADIZ - and it doesn't go directly toward the ADIZ. I would have followed the rules - last clearance, depart at ETA - and squawked 7600. If there were an airport "in the clear" but outside the ADIZ, I would have landed there.

It is perfectly fine to operate NORDO outside the ADIZ (transponder required in the veil). And I can assure you that there are NORDO folks plying the airways up and down the Shenendoah Valley.

 

[jdwatson]

I think we had a similar discussion on the AOPA before they took it down for repairs. What I remembered is that most controllers would rather you get out of the system as soon as practable despite the procedures we were taught.

I played out the total loss of power a few times before we departed and had a good idea where I would go. I like to use my 96C to keep track of the nearest airports as we're flying along just in case.

Yeah, you can't declare an emergency to anyone in ATC if you're NORDO but you can assert your authority to deviate from rules in order to assure the safety of the flight.

 

[wsuffa]

And you probably would have been OK (under emergency authority) to clip the ADIZ if you were NORDO and could prove it on the ground. I wouldn't want to try, however.

But never, ever try that with the FRZ.

 

[jdwatson]

And you probably would have been OK (under emergency authority) to clip the ADIZ if you were NORDO and could prove it on the ground. I wouldn't want to try, however.

But never, ever try that with the FRZ.

I'd have to be on fire, to fly thru an FRZ.

... Probably on fire from F-16 missles too ;-)

 

[gismo]

I think we had a similar discussion on the AOPA before they took it down for repairs. What I remembered is that most controllers would rather you get out of the system as soon as practable despite the procedures we were taught.

I played out the total loss of power a few times before we departed and had a good idea where I would go. I like to use my 96C to keep track of the nearest airports as we're flying along just in case.

Yeah, you can't declare an emergency to anyone in ATC if you're NORDO but you can assert your authority to deviate from rules in order to assure the safety of the flight.

Comm failure (transmit and receive) and I'd head for the nearest non-class B field with a good approach and hopefully adequate wx unless I could find VMC. For a total electrical failure it's head for my VMC bolt hole and/or pull out the portable GPS and try to fly an approach to a big runway.

Either way I think I'd steer clear of the ADIZ if at all possible, but if it were IMC everywhere else and VMC there, I'd probably go land in the VMC ADIZ and keep an eye out for interceptors. No point in getting close to the FRZ though and if possible I would avoid heading towards it even if I planned to land short.

 

[Ed Guthrie]

And you probably would have been OK (under emergency authority) to clip the ADIZ if you were NORDO and could prove it on the ground. I wouldn't want to try, however.

Actually, the NORDO ADIZ NOTAM (actually, the defunct transponder NOTAM, but you get my point) removes all doubt as to whether you should follow filed/cleared/expect etc. or just avoid/get out. Avoid/get out is the mantra of the day. If you go NORDO you should not enter the ADIZ even if cleared/expected would take you there.

 

[wsuffa]

Actually, the NORDO ADIZ NOTAM (actually, the defunct transponder NOTAM, but you get my point) removes all doubt as to whether you should follow filed/cleared/expect etc. or just avoid/get out. Avoid/get out is the mantra of the day. If you go NORDO you should not enter the ADIZ even if cleared/expected would take you there.

Agree, but I also think that if you lost *all* nav gear and com gear (total electric failure), and you accidentally nicked the corner of the ADIZ that you might see some leniency. (Whatever became of that Canadian that got struck by lightning and clipped the FRZ?)

Again, I wouldn't want to even think about trying it....

 

[poadeleted20]

Agree, but I also think that if you lost *all* nav gear and com gear (total electric failure), and you accidentally nicked the corner of the ADIZ that you might see some leniency. (Whatever became of that Canadian that got struck by lightning and clipped the FRZ?)

He was publicly commended by the FAA for his handling of the emergency.

If in doubt in that situation, exit/avoid the ADIZ if possible, but for sure squawk 7700 (not 7600 -- NORDO in the ADIZ or FRZ is, in my opinion, a genuine emergency), try your backup comms (handheld or cell phone), and land at the first good airport you can get to.