Thinking about long term goals and upgrade paths....

cowman

cowman

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Cowman
So I'm now just shy of 200hours as a VFR pilot. All but about 23 of those hours are in the airplane I bought to finish out my private and set off on flying adventures- a 78' Piper Archer II.

The general missions are 120-350nm cross country trips with the wife and sometimes 2 dogs+bags. The wife, 2 dogs(plus crates), and bags completely fill the Archer's cabin. I'm still 100# or more under gross but there's just no more room to be had for anything. I may only do these fully loaded trips 2-3x per year but these are the kind of journeys I wanted the airplane for. Just last week we loaded up with the dogs, flew to KY, dropped off the dogs with my in-laws, and headed off to FL for a week of fun. Worked well.... but...

We're talking about having a kid in the future... I can see dropping off the kid along with the dogs at the in-laws and doing the same thing every year. The Archer lacks the cabin space for that mission unless I start trusting the big dog to not get bored and decide to come "visit and snuggle" up front... and I really don't. Also, just in general, a few extra kts of speed would be awfully nice...

Additionally, weather often being a factor on our trips, I keep thinking very hard about an instrument rating. Was going to do it this year but I got busy....

I'm aware you can get the rating in a non-IFR aircraft but the whole point of having it for me is be able to go into IMC and I'd like to do some training in actual. Unfortunately my altimeter was just outside tolerances for IFR on the last pitot static check so I'll need to get a new altimeter and rectify it. If I'm doing that I'll also get the database on the 430W updated(2011 database currently). Oh and gee if I'm doing all that, I probably want to swap out the transponder for a KT-74 and get ADS-B taken care of....

oh yeah and it would be nice to get an autopilot.

Also, on our last trip I noticed the crazing is getting pretty bad on the pilot's side window when the sun hits it at just the wrong angle...

Now, the thing is that overall this is a nice little Archer. Engine is strong and only has around 900SMOH and ~3500TT. It's in great mechanical shape. The interior is original and it's kind of a 50' paint job(looks great if you're standing 50' away). Cosmetics aren't a big deal to me though, I'd rather spend the money on functional upgrades. Avionics are pretty basic but it does have a Garmin 430W which is good enough for me. I also am comfortable with the airplane, it's as easy to fly as it gets and I'm used to it.

I could spend $0 in upgrades... maybe replace the cockpit windows for better visibility... and just keep flying around VFR. Being able to fly in limited IMC would greatly expand the trips I make vs don't though.... most of my canceled flights are in marginal VFR conditions that I'm just not comfortable with.

I could drop more money in the Archer too... the want list in order of priority is..
*New Altimeter/gps database update
*New cockpit windows
*autopilot- probably an STEC-20/30 with GPS steering input
*LED landing light
*Led position lights
*KT-74 transponder
*406 ELT

If money were no object...
*Swap the 430W and KX-170 for a GTN750 and kx-155
*Fresh paint, maybe update the interior plastics and seats.

OR for the cost of the want list + trade in value on the Archer could I find a nice Cherokee Six or Lance... or even a Turbo Lance with most of that in it? Ohhh... but do I want to jump into learning a new airplane and burning an extra 5gph when I won't even need the extra space 90% of the time?

IDK what I want to do really :dunno:
 
That is a tough one. You're Florida mission screams Bonanaza but, as you said 90% of the time the speed, space, and fuel burn are unnecessary. You've got to prioritize because I can't see you fulfilling you're whole wishlist without getting more airplane than you need 90% of the time. Maybe a 182 would be a middle ground between what you have now and a Cherokee 6, Lance, or Bonanaza. Bigger cabin than the Archer, faster, great IFR platform, reasonable opterating costs... If you're not opposed to a Cessna it could be worth looking into.

My $0.02
 
Only thing I can add is it prob won't take too much transition time from archer to Lance, it's just a bigger badder piper. It's much faster and it'll haul your load, but I believe will burn a little more than 5 gallons more

Edit: I'm not sure if u have complex/HP yet
 
I agree with all of the posters,

You are really lucky to have the option to fly. I was going for my training and now I have medical issues which is preventing me from flying.

With that said in your situation I would go with a Cessna 206, more kids, bags, dogs and the misses...no problem. It's like the SUV of the single engine airplane.

Love the photos, not jealous but happy for you.


Let us know what you come up with!
 
eman1200 said:
Edit: I'm not sure if u have complex/HP yet
Click to expand...

I do not, from what I understand neither endorsement is terribly hard to get though.

Walboy said:
When AVGAS eventually climbs way back up, which will you be glad you have?

Keep the Archer, fix it up some and have fun with it while you can. I think it is one of the best all around airplanes and an extremely good value.
Click to expand...

True, the reason I chose this plane in the first place was when I factored in cost, safety for a low-time pilot, performance/useful load I felt it was the best buy out there. The Cherokee six/Lance/Saratoga..... and the cherokee 235s were all on my list of potentials even back then though.

But that's probably the most valid point... I have it, it's flying, only needs a few things to spruce it up, doesn't cost too much to operate, and accomplishes like 90% of what I want it to do...
 
Walboy said:
When AVGAS eventually climbs way back up, which will you be glad you have?



Keep the Archer, fix it up some and have fun with it while you can. I think it is one of the best all around airplanes and an extremely good value.
Click to expand...

Archers are great airplanes, but if there is any possibility of having more than 1 kid, he will need to upgrade.

210/PA32/Bo will all do the job. PA32 will be the easiest transition although W+B can be more challenging.

Pick your poison.
 
What can he upgrade to but keep the same performance and increase his payload without breaking the bank?
 
Here's the loading situation where we run out of room...
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=41835&d=1444179342

I suppose one option would just be to leave the dogs at home.... I hate leaving the big guy at a kennel though. He loves to run and my in-laws have a farm with lots of room for him to stretch his legs so it's kind of nice to take him with. His crate is filling the entire back seat though.... and all our baggage is sort of stuffed around the dog crates.

If I could trust him in the cockpit or come up with some sort of thing to ensure he doesn't interfere with me or any flight controls I might be able to forgo the crate and we'd gain some space. Same for the little corgi really... we don't crate them in the car.
 
FloridaPilot said:
What can he upgrade to but keep the same performance and increase his payload without breaking the bank?
Click to expand...

Without knowing what his bank is, it's hard to really say. But, if he can handle the additional fuel burn of a PA32, I don't think the other costs should be too much more (assuming he finds a good one).
 
Get a vasectomy on the sly. Or fly the kid/dog mission solo, then back for the wife and bags. Or just buy the big plane you want now, because you might need it someday for something.:yes:
 
You want to fly. Not rebuild.

Fix the altimeter.

Update the GPS database.

Forget about the ADS-B for now, you'll know when you need it.

Defer the windows to a complete strip and paint, whether that's you or the next guy.

No point in an autopilot in an Archer at all. Fly it.

Upgrade the landing light or Nav lights when they fail. No point in doing it before then.

ELT: Personal decision.

Don't upgrade the GPS. The newer one doesn't buy you anything if you already have WAAS.

KX-155: Don't unless the old one fails. They're long in the tooth and the displays fail. Modern answer would be Garmin or Icom. Until there's something wrong with the one you've got, it's a bad spend. And I love the KX-155. But if one of mine ever fails it's probably not going back in. No point in strapping oneself to that display problem.

Paint, interior, seats: Personal preference. Sounds like you'll need to sell in a few years anyway, so if they're workable I'd leave them alone.

Best investment you can make is in yourself. Get it IFR certified and get the rating. Don't go nuts on upgrades if a larger payload will be required in a few years anyway. You're likely to sell it. Don't buy avionics for the next owner.

Go fly the hell out of it. Deal with the payload problem if and when it happens. No need to worry about it now.
 
Just keep the pups tied in back. Or use some sort of modified fence/gate between the front and back. If the crates are needed at your in-laws, buy some there. Should save some space.

Your priorities will change some when you have kids, and you won't be able to predict what those priorities will be before hand. Don't make any drastic changes with the future in mind, just keep tabs on what you need today and maybe the next, and assess if what you have is no longer appropriate.
 
Get the rating - it is very worth it, especially with a WAAS GPS. It makes those MVFR flights angst-free. It also makes transitioning busy or unfamiliar airspace to unfamiliar airports almost a non-event. It makes transitioning complicated, busy or unfamiliar airspace simple. I file IFR as often as possible now (except in the mountains).

If you're flying real single-pilot IFR and longer trips, a decent autopilot is, IMHO, a must-have item. GPSS isn't required but is nice, especially when you can have your AP fly LPV or ILS approaches while you oversee everything. GPSS isn't required to fly coupled LPV approaches, btw.

If you decide to step up, the C182 (RG?) is designed to be a family hauler, but since you fly a Piper now, the Arrow also came to mind. The RG would get you the extra speed you're looking for.

HP and complex are just the next steps in your learning. Don't think of those as any kind of barrier at all.
 
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The PA32 has low performance and low efficiency when compared to its counterparts.

Some earlier Bonanzas can run MoGas. The planes are durable, have more space than the Archer, much faster, etc. I'd be looking at a V-tail Bo for your mission. If you want MoGas as an option, look for one that can do that. The transition on any of these birds is an easy one, don't fret about that.

If you wanted to stick to a Lycoming (and truthfully I think 4-cylinder Lycomings are probably the most bulletproof engines in aviation), I'd look for a BE95 Travil Air. Basically a V-tail Bo with two O-360s on it. Also very durable and not expensive. Don't know if the plane is certified for MoGas, but I know the engines will do it fine. In any case, you end up with a good, stable IFR platform.
 
The best cheap true four place airplane is a 172N with the upgraded 180 HP engine and MGW STC.

That will haul over 1000 lb useful load, and they don't seem to be any more expensive than other 172Ns. Takeoff performance is adqequate even at fairly high density altitude (tried up to 10,000 DA, wouldn't want to go much higher -- better than an Archer). And they still burn the same 8.5 GPH at full rental power, 7 GPH when dialed back to 2400 RPM.

Unless you want to do real high altitude or real fast speed, it's hard to get better bang for your buck. And these things are real nice with a GTN650.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
The PA32 has low performance and low efficiency when compared to its counterparts.
Click to expand...
True, but it does provide more room/baggage space and some would argue increased comfort. I can see why some people would want a PA32.

I would rather ride as a passenger in a PA32 than an A36. As a pilot, I would rather fly an A36.
 
cowman said:
Here's the loading situation where we run out of room...
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=41835&d=1444179342

I suppose one option would just be to leave the dogs at home.... I hate leaving the big guy at a kennel though. He loves to run and my in-laws have a farm with lots of room for him to stretch his legs so it's kind of nice to take him with. His crate is filling the entire back seat though.... and all our baggage is sort of stuffed around the dog crates.

If I could trust him in the cockpit or come up with some sort of thing to ensure he doesn't interfere with me or any flight controls I might be able to forgo the crate and we'd gain some space. Same for the little corgi really... we don't crate them in the car.
Click to expand...

With that load I would go with a Cherokee 6, or Lance.
 
Fearless Tower said:
True, but it does provide more room/baggage space and some would argue increased comfort. I can see why some people would want a PA32.

I would rather ride as a passenger in a PA32 than an A36. As a pilot, I would rather fly an A36.
Click to expand...

Right, the question is always where to draw the compromise. I would err towards the Beechcraft lineup, but some people would go PA32. Others would go 421, and still others, G-V. :)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Right, the question is always where to draw the compromise. I would err towards the Beechcraft lineup, but some people would go PA32. Others would go 421, and still others, G-V. :)
Click to expand...

Good point...he needs a Beech 18!
 
cowman said:
Here's the loading situation where we run out of room...
http://www.pilotsofamerica.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=41835&d=1444179342

I suppose one option would just be to leave the dogs at home.... I hate leaving the big guy at a kennel though. He loves to run and my in-laws have a farm with lots of room for him to stretch his legs so it's kind of nice to take him with. His crate is filling the entire back seat though.... and all our baggage is sort of stuffed around the dog crates.

If I could trust him in the cockpit or come up with some sort of thing to ensure he doesn't interfere with me or any flight controls I might be able to forgo the crate and we'd gain some space. Same for the little corgi really... we don't crate them in the car.
Click to expand...

They make harnesses for restraining dogs in cars. I'm sure this could be adopted for a plane somehow.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Get smaller dogs...
Click to expand...

We have a pet sitter. You can usually find a neighborhood kid who's excited about the prospect of making a little cash.

Even if we had dogs now, we wouldn't travel with them and the kids.
 
denverpilot said:
You want to fly. Not rebuild.

Fix the altimeter.

Update the GPS database.

Forget about the ADS-B for now, you'll know when you need it.

Defer the windows to a complete strip and paint, whether that's you or the next guy.

No point in an autopilot in an Archer at all. Fly it.

Upgrade the landing light or Nav lights when they fail. No point in doing it before then.

ELT: Personal decision.

Don't upgrade the GPS. The newer one doesn't buy you anything if you already have WAAS.

KX-155: Don't unless the old one fails.

Paint, interior, seats: Personal preference. Sounds like you'll need to sell in a few years anyway, so if they're workable I'd leave them alone.

Best investment you can make is in yourself. Get it IFR certified and get the rating. Don't go nuts on upgrades if a larger payload will be required in a few years anyway. You're likely to sell it. Don't buy avionics for the next owner.

Go fly the hell out of it. Deal with the payload problem if and when it happens. No need to worry about it now.
Click to expand...
I'd 2nd those thoughts. Keep the plane, train the dog, upgrade the pilot with an IR.

Getting the IR will give the chance to figure out if that's the route you want to go. If so, your choice of planes in the future will be more informed. Even if you don't continue with it, you will be a better pilot.

No LEDs, the 430w does what you need, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Seems like you've done great so far... keep it up!
 
Buffalo Airways looks to be selling 3 Travel Airs right now, all with IFR panels. No price listed.
 
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