Thinking about an ATV/Tow-Behind for the RV

Ted,

Anyone ever tell you you think too much?

Think? There is no think. Just DO or not do.

Paraphrasing yoda
 
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Akin to Land Rover / Range Rover just about the entire range of years of Land Cruisers are awesome. However I have no idea if they can be TOAD without drive shaft removal.

If you are upgrading her previous SUV and can consider Japanese - add consideration for the Lexus equivalent of the 4-runner (GX???)?

Man I love our 4-runner but the 5th Gen's have gotten big and hence why I suggested a 3rd Gen but that was only because I thought you wanted something that you would only tow and not daily drive. They are about the perfect size for towing.

The 4th Gen's have a very popular V8 and seem about half way between the popular 3rd gen and the latest models in size.

Either way, 3rd Gen or 4th Gen and you are buying no less than 10yrs old and most likely 15+yrs old. I would easily trust a Hilux/Taco that old. Same goes for the 4runners and Landcruisers. But nothing that old is gonna have backup cameras or hands free phone without any round of hassles.

That's a lot of Japanese cars but if its any consolation I only owned American for the first 40yrs of my driving life. I won't go into the reasons for the change but you can probably guess.

My ultimate garage would have a new or previous model Landcruiser and a Porsche 911 turbo. Both have aged to near perfection and I can fit in at least one of them :)
 
CharlieD3 said:
Ted,

Anyone ever tell you you think too much?

Think? There is no think. Just DO or not do.

Paraphrasing yoda
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Yes, many have told me that, and they’re right. But I usually end up happy with the end result the first time, so there is that.

Sinistar said:
Akin to Land Rover / Range Rover just about the entire range of years of Land Cruisers are awesome. However I have no idea if they can be TOAD without drive shaft removal.

If you are upgrading her previous SUV and can consider Japanese - add consideration for the Lexus equivalent of the 4-runner (GX???)?

Man I love our 4-runner but the 5th Gen's have gotten big and hence why I suggested a 3rd Gen but that was only because I thought you wanted something that you would only tow and not daily drive. They are about the perfect size for towing.

The 4th Gen's have a very popular V8 and seem about half way between the popular 3rd gen and the latest models in size.

Either way, 3rd Gen or 4th Gen and you are buying no less than 10yrs old and most likely 15+yrs old. I would easily trust a Hilux/Taco that old. Same goes for the 4runners and Landcruisers. But nothing that old is gonna have backup cameras or hands free phone without any round of hassles.

That's a lot of Japanese cars but if its any consolation I only owned American for the first 40yrs of my driving life. I won't go into the reasons for the change but you can probably guess.

My ultimate garage would have a new or previous model Landcruiser and a Porsche 911 turbo. Both have aged to near perfection and I can fit in at least one of them :)
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Stomaching a Toyota or Lexus would be a hard one for me. Now if she said she wants and likes it, that’s fine. Reality is I’m not a huge fan of the GL550 - it’s a pain to work on when it breaks, but at least it doesn’t break that often. I don’t think the current Land Crushers or Sequoia have a real gearbox and the 4Runner would be too small as for the daily she wants 3 rows. To be honest we’re still trying to figure out what we even would replace her Mercedes with when the time comes - kids getting bigger and all.

I imagine I’ll just keep thinking on this for a while unless the answer hits me in the face.
 
I found this list. I cant vouch for the accuracy though. As much as it pains me to recommend any Ford, the Explorer ST or the Aviator is a car to look at. Lots of HP, supposedly nice inside when you go Lincoln.

1. 2019 Luxury SUV Lincoln Nautilus
2. 2020 Full-Size SUV Chevy Suburban
3. 2020 Full-Size SUV Ford Expedition 4WD
4. 2020 Full-Size Crossover Chevrolet Traverse AWD
5. 2020 Mid-Size SUV Ford Edge ST
6. 2020 Mid-Size SUV Jeep Grand Cherokee
7. 2020 Compact SUV Ford Escape – Hybrid
8. 2020 Full-Size Truck Ford F-150
9. 2020 Midsize Truck Jeep Gladiator
10. 2019 Compact Car Honda Civic
11. 2019 Compact Car Toyota Corolla SE 6MT
 
What's the towing capacity of that rig? YOU already know this, but the challenge isn't starting when towing - it's stopping. Some of those large 3-row SUVs are absolute bricks and may have some issues with towing capacity of the RV. Might have to settle for the towable vehicle and a Laurie's "fun at home" vehicle being two different things. :)
 
charheep said:
I found this list. I cant vouch for the accuracy though. As much as it pains me to recommend any Ford, the Explorer ST or the Aviator is a car to look at. Lots of HP, supposedly nice inside when you go Lincoln.

1. 2019 Luxury SUV Lincoln Nautilus
2. 2020 Full-Size SUV Chevy Suburban
3. 2020 Full-Size SUV Ford Expedition 4WD
4. 2020 Full-Size Crossover Chevrolet Traverse AWD
5. 2020 Mid-Size SUV Ford Edge ST
6. 2020 Mid-Size SUV Jeep Grand Cherokee
7. 2020 Compact SUV Ford Escape – Hybrid
8. 2020 Full-Size Truck Ford F-150
9. 2020 Midsize Truck Jeep Gladiator
10. 2019 Compact Car Honda Civic
11. 2019 Compact Car Toyota Corolla SE 6MT
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That's a reasonable list. I also am not looking at new - the Ram was an exception to my "never buy new cars" rule.

More thinking...
 
Ted, you've probably seen this before, but allows most rear wheel drive to be flat towed.

https://www.remcodsc.com/?gclid=Cjw...tNAQ4pCdlguLViYUsMyxV9vNkm5hjMORoCt3QQAvD_BwE

I know you're not a fan of Toyota, and I'm not either, finding most of their cars to be bland and vanilla. That said, a used 4-door Tacoma RWD with the V6 and stick shift would be right up your alley (especially one of the Prerunner versions, which is RWD but has the 4x4 TRD suspension), and I think is interesting enough considering there's good aftermarket for modifications.

Still thinking about you thinking about a TOAD.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Ted, you've probably seen this before, but allows most rear wheel drive to be flat towed.

https://www.remcodsc.com/?gclid=Cjw...tNAQ4pCdlguLViYUsMyxV9vNkm5hjMORoCt3QQAvD_BwE

I know you're not a fan of Toyota, and I'm not either, finding most of their cars to be bland and vanilla. That said, a used 4-door Tacoma RWD with the V6 and stick shift would be right up your alley (especially one of the Prerunner versions, which is RWD but has the 4x4 TRD suspension), and I think is interesting enough considering there's good aftermarket for modifications.

Still thinking about you thinking about a TOAD.
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The issue with that idea is that we still have to buy another vehicle, and while Laurie could get by with a rear wheel drive vehicle just fine (we don't get much snow here), it won't work with the GL550 and then we're either replacing it with something less capable (I don't think we'd do that) or buying a separate vehicle, and again at that point, may as well go 4x4.

Good idea though.
 
Best short term I think is run what you brung, flat tow the Ram. No new vehicles to buy/maintain.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Best short term I think is run what you brung, flat tow the Ram. No new vehicles to buy/maintain.
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Agreed that's the best short-term solution. Still requires buying equipment that then won't be transferrable, though.
 
One thing that I keep thinking about is whether it is a Dinghy or TOAD, if you are going to do a lot of this towing you are putting lots of miles on the tow vehicle. If that vehicle is also the replacement for the wife's daily driver then shes gonna get a lot of miles she never drives. I think that is why I was thinking an older much cheaper TOAD or Dinghy that is "just good enough" and if its older is probably a bit smaller and lighter.

If you are only going to do this once or twice a year then pulling your brand new daily driver isn't such a big deal.

One thing that is nice about your suggestion (RAM) and @Bill Jennings suggestion (Taco) and a 3rd option (Manual F150's)...all these truck options give you the option to haul a few more things that are large or awkward such as bicycles where the SUV's will be more of a PITA.

Toyotas are indeed bland. But reliability is another story. So as much as you are against a Toyota I think Bill's recommendation for an older 4dr Taco is the best so far.....if you could find one old enough (cheap enough) to warrant it for TOAD duty only. Plus you can try kill it when not towing it :)

Check out these attempts to kill an old Taco (Hilux) :eek:
https://topgear.fandom.com/wiki/The_Indestructible_Hilux#:~:text=The Hilux prior to its,multiple times on Top Gear.&text=It is most prominently featured,was indestructible to the test.
 
Sinistar said:
One thing that I keep thinking about is whether it is a Dinghy or TOAD, if you are going to do a lot of this towing you are putting lots of miles on the tow vehicle. If that vehicle is also the replacement for the wife's daily driver then shes gonna get a lot of miles she never drives. I think that is why I was thinking an older much cheaper TOAD or Dinghy that is "just good enough" and if its older is probably a bit smaller and lighter.

If you are only going to do this once or twice a year then pulling your brand new daily driver isn't such a big deal.
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I don't view that as too big of a deal. In 20 years of wrenching I've not had to do much for suspension or driveline repairs. Spinning with no load isn't as hard on differentials etc. as actually driving, no real heat there other than basic friction. Yes extra wear on tires, but that exists on any vehicle.

I get where you're coming from and that's a common argument, but I don't think it really matters in the grand scheme. Most of the maintenance I do is on engine/transmission kind of items, and those will receive no wear.
 
What about just renting something once you get there? Enterprise it.
 
charheep said:
What about just renting something once you get there? Enterprise it.
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There might be some cases where that makes sense, but on the whole, I don't think works for us. Whole idea with this is to minimize the amount of messing around, and a lot of the "off the beaten path" places may not have rentals available.

Really, a lot of what I'm still trying to determine is whether or not we even need a toad.
 
Thats true, if you arent a campsite its not helpful. "Hello enterprise, can you pick me up in Yellowstone? Ok, drive 4 miles off the road, turn left at that the one tree, ... "
 
We put a lot miles on the coach with out a Toad.
We always have a car we can use while visiting family.
Alaska trips, Texas, we tow. it always depends what you are going and what you are doing.
 
That makes sense, Tom, and is exactly what we're trying to figure out.
 
It's a new learning experience. After a trip or two, after chatting with campground neighbors, after figuring out your food supply, and so on, you'll have a better idea.

We spent 3 days in Yellowstone a number of years ago, just the 2 of us. A place like that nearly requires a 2nd vehicle, other places may not. I hadn't though about the renting aspect very much. You might be limited in some areas to stopping along the way, renting, driving both vehicles for an hour or two to the campsite, then reversing the process on the way out.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
That makes sense, Tom, and is exactly what we're trying to figure out.
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Things to consider,
on a simple 2 way trip to the South Dakota, I'd leave the Toad home, There isn't anything to see that you can't see by foot, Are you going to the Badlands ? You can see it all by coach, good highway all the way. BUT there are roads in the area that you Can't go with the coach.. = home work??
 
Helicopter-being-towed-by-a-motorhome-720x420@2x.jpg
 
Laurie would definitely approve...
 
MIFlyer said:
I mean, you can put that thing anywhere!

Now, which of you will get your A&P so you can reassemble at destination (assuming it's partially apart)
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We've been talking about getting our A&Ps for years. She got about 3/4 of the way through hers years ago, but never finished it.

Given my current burnout/shedding aviation stuff, the desire is less there. Dealing with a balloon annual once a year isn't a big deal, and if we get a Cub, figure similar. A helicopter is definitely top on of the "aviation things I don't want to own" list. Oh, and one that could fit all 5 of us? Yeah... no thanks.

Really, I would like to personally get out of having so much administrative BS to deal with for hobbies. My cars, motorcycles, etc. I just do what I want to them and don't have to worry about sign-offs, medicals, things like that. I'd like to get closer to that point with my aviation pursuits.
 
I can't figure why the Heli-Home never caught on:

message-editor%2F1594494971728-d6dy5gauuaasl63.jpg




For the last couple weeks a house along my commute has a Class A carrying a "For Sale" sign parked out front. I keep trying to catch the make and model, but it's just far enough off the road to see it clearly when I'm driving.
 
Something that just crossed my mind and unrelated - @Everskyward now that you're retired, are you no longer ever skyward? ;)
 
@Matthew sounds like you need to walk up and find out! :)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Something that just crossed my mind and unrelated - @Everskyward now that you're retired, are you no longer ever skyward? ;)
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:rofl:

Funny, I regretted my username almost immediately after I chose it as being too pretentious, but I never asked for it to be changed. Probably would have been rejected anyway since it wasn't a case of me screwing up and accidentally using my real name when that was not my intention. ;)

Now I'm used to it.
 
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Matthew said:
Mandalay. Not sure about length but it has a single rear axle. The next time you drive up this way you’ll probably see it.
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Single rear axle can go pretty much all the way up to 42’. Even saw a one off 45’ with a single, but I wouldn’t want that.
 
I say you go old school and cheap, like an early 90s Ford Bronco or 2-Door Tahoe/K5 Blazer. Plenty of room for 5 and gear, 4x4 transaxle/locking hubs. Cheap and simple. They don't weigh a ton and don't have much in the way of electronics to go bad.
 
SoonerAviator said:
I say you go old school and cheap, like an early 90s Ford Bronco or 2-Door Tahoe/K5 Blazer. Plenty of room for 5 and gear, 4x4 transaxle/locking hubs. Cheap and simple. They don't weigh a ton and don't have much in the way of electronics to go bad.
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I’ve searched for those and not found them for sale in reasonable shape or cheap.
 
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SoonerAviator said:
I'd tell you to pick up an Excursion, but you've already had a few of them, lol.
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Excursion really doesn't fit the bill. Too big, too heavy, Laurie doesn't want to drive another one. She loves her Mercedes so if we replace it, she needs to love the replacement just as much. I just don't see us finding a replacement that she 1) loves and 2) does the job.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Excursion really doesn't fit the bill. Too big, too heavy, Laurie doesn't want to drive another one. She loves her Mercedes so if we replace it, she needs to love the replacement just as much. I just don't see us finding a replacement that she 1) loves and 2) does the job.
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I agree. It's going to be difficult to find something to use as a Toad that also serves as a modern daily driver. I figure it's probably easier just to find a cheaper vehicle to use just for Toad purposes, even if that doesn't "replace" the Mercedes. The Excursion would be way too much to dragging around (7,500lbs) for Toad duty, especially with the length. Broncos, Blazers, even the good old Jeep XJ are great for that purpose, but it's getting harder to find ones that haven't been lifted 8" with 38"+ tires or haven't rusted out and been beat to hell. The remaining clean examples seem to be at quite a premium price these days.
 
We keep on coming back to the Land Rover idea, and I think either a Discovery or a Range Rover Classic (the original Range Rovers with round headlights) seems likely. Maybe a P38 Range Rover (made from I think '96 through early 2000s, like the one I used to have) but I think the first two fit the bill a bit better. Having a 7-seater Disco sounds nice with the 3 kids, although with them growing they may soon be smashed in back anyway.

There aren't a ton around here for sale, and since we're talking older vehicles most of them have high miles and in varying need of work/restoration. That's understood for the age and price range we're looking at, so really just a question of which pros/cons make the most sense.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
There aren't a ton around here for sale, and since we're talking older vehicles most of them have high miles and in varying need of work/restoration.
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Pardon me Ted, but I'm going to be real for a moment. How many projects can you really support? I mean, you rightfully closed C9 due to the tolls it takes on your time, energy, and psyche. You're working over an RV, building a sports car, building a new outbuilding, building a runway, reworking a Harley, and I'm sure I've missed an additional half dozen projects. Ted, it's no dishonor to just find a cheap reliable TOAD that just works without much effort. Really. No offense intended, just an observation.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Pardon me Ted, but I'm going to be real for a moment. How many projects can you really support? I mean, you rightfully closed C9 due to the tolls it takes on your time, energy, and psyche. You're working over an RV, building a sports car, building a new outbuilding, building a runway, reworking a Harley, and I'm sure I've missed an additional half dozen projects. Ted, it's no dishonor to just find a cheap reliable TOAD that just works without much effort. Really. No offense intended, just an observation.
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I get your point, Bill, and you're correct I have (too) many projects at the moment. At the same time, for the price range I'm looking at, a cheap/reliable vehicle in the price range I'm looking at is going to end up being FWD and require a tow dolly, which I don't want to buy. Then when it doesn't allow anything for off-road (which I'm pretty sure we're going to want to do, so is Laurie) then we have to buy something else anyway.

I've never bought a vehicle just because it's "practical" at the expense of driving enjoyment, and I don't intend to start now. Whenever I drive something practical instead of something I enjoy, I regret it.

At the same time, I think trying to wait and pay a bit more for the right vehicle and paying more to try to start off ahead of the game makes more sense and probably the right thing to do. And also being patient to find that vehicle.
 
I have driven a Jeep Liberty as a loaner and I believe the transfer case has a 'N' position. Not sure how good those are 'off road'. You can even get a diesel (iirc a VM Mottori), but those are probably hard to find by now as the rural mail carriers snatch them up when they become available.
 
weilke said:
I have driven a Jeep Liberty as a loaner and I believe the transfer case has a 'N' position. Not sure how good those are 'off road'. You can even get a diesel (iirc a VM Mottori), but those are probably hard to find by now as the rural mail carriers snatch them up when they become available.
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The Liberty is kinda junky. If it had the diesel (you're correct - VM Mottori) that does make it more interesting, and I'd not be entirely opposed to one there. The real problem I find with any Jeep is that they're bought as normal daily drivers and treated as such, so the interiors are completely trashed by the time the resale gets down enough.
 
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