Thinking about a restoration. What do you all think?

[Dustin]

I am still looking at my options. I have some money saved, but still need to save some more, though I am nearly there. How much work and money would you estimate a project like this would cost, parts wise? For example, new fabric all the way to top coat? I have my A&P so I would do all of the work myself.

Thank you for taking the time to help me out.

1952 PA22-135, 1650 TTAF&E, complete, disassembled for restoration, $6500. LA/(318) 722-3501 days; (318) 389-5983 nights.

 

[Greebo]

First question: Do you want to OWN an aircraft, or do you want to build/restore an aircraft?

The long odds are that you will not save any money building or restoring over buying outright, but you WILL invest a lot more time into the project and not be flying your own aircraft for months or years.

Food for thought...

 

[SkyHog]

I am still looking at my options. I have some money saved, but still need to save some more, though I am nearly there. How much work and money would you estimate a project like this would cost, parts wise? For example, new fabric all the way to top coat? I have my A&P so I would do all of the work myself.

Thank you for taking the time to help me out.

1952 PA22-135, 1650 TTAF&E, complete, disassembled for restoration, $6500. LA/(318) 722-3501 days; (318) 389-5983 nights.

I don't know a lot about it, but it looks like a lot of fun. You'll hear a lot of responses about not building if you want to own, or whatnot. They're all true, but it does seem to me at least somewhat that one can do both.

You already have the A&P? If you can afford it, I say do it!

edit: errr...I swear Greebo's post wasn't showing when I started this....I'm not calling you out, man.

 

[Dustin]

First question: Do you want to OWN an aircraft, or do you want to build/restore an aircraft?

The long odds are that you will not save any money building or restoring over buying outright, but you WILL invest a lot more time into the project and not be flying your own aircraft for months or years.

Food for thought...

Wow, that was fast.

I want to own and restore. The experience of restoring my own aircraft would be a good one. Also, I would know the aircraft intimitably (sp?) .

I have the whole week to work on a project so I could put time on it then. I work weekends. The work space I would be using is 40 feet from where I am right now, a two car garage. Right now I am in my bedroom.

Thanks for the food!

 

[Greebo]

Well, that answers the first question. Not being a builder/restorer myself (I thought about it tho and my answer was not that I wanted to build/rebuild), I can't tell you what the 2nd question is.

 

[Dustin]

Here is another one from TAP.

1953 PA22-135 TRI-PACER. 3800 TTAE. Airframe stripped & in primer ready for finishing. Project is an original, complete aircraft with engine/ prop/ logs. $8,950. AZ/(480) 926-4058, (480) 206-7542.

 

[Richard]

Here is another one from TAP.

1953 PA22-135 TRI-PACER. 3800 TTAE. Airframe stripped & in primer ready for finishing. Project is an original, complete aircraft with engine/ prop/ logs. $8,950. AZ/(480) 926-4058, (480) 206-7542.

+ $1-2,000 shipping
+ $3,000 covering materials
+ $? parts and materials costs to get her back to airworthy condition

Looks favorable over price of the PA-22s out there.

Offer him 90% of asking. After you've done your due diligence, of course.

 

[Brian Austin]

Here is another one from TAP.

1953 PA22-135 TRI-PACER. 3800 TTAE. Airframe stripped & in primer ready for finishing. Project is an original, complete aircraft with engine/ prop/ logs. $8,950. AZ/(480) 926-4058, (480) 206-7542.

If you want very specific pictures, I could probably run over there to take some for you. It's local.

 

[infotango]

I really want to start on a similar project this summer, hopefully I will be able to get some experience by helping a local guy currently restoring a cub, and 195.
Not to hijack the thread, but how'd you get the A & P, or how does somebody go about getting the A & P without actually holding a job as a mechanic? Is it even possible?

 

[Graueradler]

If I was going to put that much work into something, I think I'd build an experimental (probably an RV) a get out from under some of the regulatory burden. If you're already an A&P, that may not be relevant.

 

[fgcason]

Not to hijack the thread, but how'd you get the A & P, or how does somebody go about getting the A & P without actually holding a job as a mechanic? Is it even possible?

Check the FAA website. There's over a hundred P147 A&P schools listed. A year and a half of school and you're there. An alternative is to work for the experience but IIRC it's 30 months of experience requirements to be allowed to take the tests.
If you just want to work on a project plane or your own plane, you can do it as long as you like under the supervision of an A&P.

 

[Richard]

Check the FAA website. There's over a hundred P147 A&P schools listed. A year and a half of school and you're there. An alternative is to work for the experience but IIRC it's 30 months of experience requirements to be allowed to take the tests.
If you just want to work on a project plane or your own plane, you can do it as long as you like under the supervision of an A&P.

Just to add what you've said: some of those schools offer you the training in the accelerated course and then you work for them for an additional amount of time to earn the cert. Think of it as PFT for mx. Other schools offer the training and the cert in one package. The element of time is the main difference.

If I were a young buck I would seriously consider working under the wing of an A&P. For starters, I would be employed in a bona fide position right away and I wouldn't have incurred the costs of those 147 schools. Sure, the wage wouldn't be all that great but it beats cost of servicing that debt of several tens of thousands of dollars of school tuition.

I know an old timer (A&P/IA since the '50s) who is such a wealth of knowledge I would be hard pressed to learn as much in a school. Another independant A&P/IA is ex-airline mx, retired FAA mx inspector who is very busy with classic restorations. What is that worth?

 

[Dustin]

If you want very specific pictures, I could probably run over there to take some for you. It's local.

Brian, thank you for the offer. I am not quite ready to buy, perhaps in 6 months or so. I want to save some more money and not have to get a loan from the bank, although I have thought about the bank.

If you really want to, I would like to see some pictures, but it is not something I need right at this time.

Thank you for the offer.

 

[Dustin]

I really want to start on a similar project this summer, hopefully I will be able to get some experience by helping a local guy currently restoring a cub, and 195.
Not to hijack the thread, but how'd you get the A & P, or how does somebody go about getting the A & P without actually holding a job as a mechanic? Is it even possible?

Others have given good advice.

I went to a Part 147 school for 18 months during the day. They also had night classes. It was a lot of fun, for the most part.

 

[infotango]

Yeah, I'm already on the track to another career, but being having A & P is something I've always wanted to do, my grandfather was an A & P.
I did get a quick chance to look at some of the schools and they seem to have some weekend classes which might be good and they aren't too pricey. But I'm wondering, if I just kept track of the time I hope to spend with the A & P I know who is restoring that Cub, I could count that towards required experience?

I'm also getting the idea that getting the A and P rating might be much too big a project for me right now.

 

[Dustin]

Yeah, I'm already on the track to another career, but being having A & P is something I've always wanted to do, my grandfather was an A & P.
I did get a quick chance to look at some of the schools and they seem to have some weekend classes which might be good and they aren't too pricey. But I'm wondering, if I just kept track of the time I hope to spend with the A & P I know who is restoring that Cub, I could count that towards required experience?

I'm also getting the idea that getting the A and P rating might be much too big a project for me right now.

If I were you, I would hang out with the A&P restoring the Cub. That would be valuable experience. You would learn a lot and if you did end up going to A&P school, having worked on a restoration and being a pilot will help out enormously. As for it counting towards the required experience, you would have to talk to your FSDO. They are the ones who say whether or not you can take the written and practical tests based on experience versus schooling.

One of the big reasons I got my A&P was because I wanted to own my own plane. I might go the restoration option.

 

[fgcason]

the wage wouldn't be all that great but it beats cost of servicing that debt of several tens of thousands of dollars of school tuition.

Agreed. There are several routes to go that'll get you there and one must choose wisely based on individual circumstances.

Minor point: During my research on schools I've found that not all P147 schools are whopping expensive. I've seen them range all over the board from ≈$8K to Carl-Sagan-can't-count-that-high. You have to do your homework and be willing to relocate if you want to knock the price down. School connections status aside, you end up with the same certification at the end.

I know an old timer (A&P/IA since the '50s) who is such a wealth of knowledge I would be hard pressed to learn as much in a school. Another independant A&P/IA is ex-airline mx, retired FAA mx inspector who is very busy with classic restorations. What is that worth?

That's where you stop measuring everything in terms of dollars and quality of training. You measure in terms of Perfection. Perfection trumps quality and money every time without exception.

 

[Richard]

Another thing: I know of at least two 2 year colleges which offer A&P courses as part of their regular curriculum. One is Long Beach City College in Los Angeles, the other is Riverside College in Riverside, CA. You'll walk out of there with an A.S. college degree and the knowledge to take the tests for the cert. Both colleges also have OJT available in the field.

I contacted Riverside College last year and they were quite anxious for students in the A&P program. IIRC, they had just received a large block grant but were short of students.

The college route is way less expensive then those specialty schools, they are accredited, and you'll earn a college degree.

 

[Tom-D]

Dustin, You can do this and come out ahead. That PA-22 would be a nice 30k aircraft when done. then you can ratchet up and get a bigger project, pretty soon you have the aircraft you want.

I started with a C-150 and turned 3 of them around, while having them on the rental line making some money while the were for sale. then I bought a 48 rag wing 170, for 10k, and worked it for a year flew it a while and sold it for 30k, and bought a 54 "B" for 24k and restored it and flew it a year and sold it for 45k and bought the F-24.

I make a few parts for other Fairchild club members and do a few annuals all in support of the HOBBY.

After a while you gain a reputation of doing a certain job like fabric work, and folks start looking for you.

I know 1 A&P that is covering 4 aircraft per year at 20-30 k each. not shabby for a guy that works his own hours at home.