Thinking about a camper.....(channeling Ted)

I've been thinking about this a lot too, because Oshkosh. I just don't have a good place to store it (yet) nor a good tow vehicle.

The biggest problem I have with campers is that I can't tow one behind the Mooney.

I'm personally hoping that in 10 years or so, I'll be able to have a Tesla pickup with full self driving including towing, and that I'll be able to pack up the camper a few days in advance and just send it on ahead, and then take the Mooney to get there and meet it. :)
 
Clearly no one right answer.

We went through the decision process about 4 years ago. Decided a towed travel trailer was best for us for a variety of reasons.

Advice we got: find a size you think is just right and buy the next size larger. A 16’ felt about right, but following that advice we bought a 21’ and we’re glad we did.

Went with an all-aluminum CampLite. We wanted something we could tow with an SUV, and bought a 2011 Ford Flex with EcoBoost as a tow vehicle:

14317999313_aed5d2d877.jpg


With 365 hp, power has never been an issue, even on the long, steep grades in the Appalachians. Properly set up with weight distribution and sway control, zero panicky situations in about 15,000 miles of towing. Get about 12 mpg towing at 55 mph, compared to about 24 mpg at 70 mph without the trailer.

Anyway, works for us.
 
Thanks Eddie! That’s good stuff. I wouldn’t have thought the fuel mileage would be half, I figured a 35-40% decrease.
 
Thanks Eddie! That’s good stuff. I wouldn’t have thought the fuel mileage would be half, I figured a 35-40% decrease.

That’s where the gassers will tend to get you vs diesels. But there’s no free lunch and you’re correct that diesel repairs are $$$. Just don’t buy a PowerStroke 6.0.

Well I’d advise against a PowerStroke anything (other than a 7.3), but I’m a Cummins guy. ;)
 
I’ll soon have children in four different states and grandchildren in two. I still have one at home. I’m not necessarily trying to save money, I’m thinking more about the utility. Thinking about a pull behind that would just be somewhere to sleep and maybe take a shower. What are the pluses, minuses and gotchas?

Specifically about hard sided trailers, some apply to motor coaches and pop ups also.

Pluses:

Sleep in your own bed.

Eat your own food prepared in your own little kitchen.

If you have a place to park it at the house, if can be ready to go or not, work on it if needed, and hitch it up and leave.

There’s always little things to be done to them or little upgrade projects, which are kinda fun.

Go anywhere. Kinda.

Minuses:

If you have to park it elsewhere, storage places and rental fees.

Same thing with those little projects or maintenance, you won’t keep up on them if it’s not at your house. It’ll be a pain to go get it to do those things so it’ll add a week of screwing around with it before every trip.

Almost none at low prices are built well. Even high prices aren’t. They’re going for light weights because people don’t want to buy heavy duty tow vehicles and light weight means crap construction.

No matter how nice of a system it is, black water tanks and dealing with them sucks. Get good gear and be careful and you won’t have Old Faithful at the dump station, but there’s no getting around that dealing with dumping your own poo is fairly nasty. You just deal with it.

Driving. I love driving. I love towing. But a true cross county trip is still an ass kicker in the seat all day. Three hours in a jetliner will get me anywhere in CONUS and there’s times it just makes more sense.

Price. To get a decent quality rig it’s not going to be cheap. You can pay for months and months of really nice hotels for the price of nearly any RV even used.

Gotchas:

Depreciation. Don’t buy new if you can’t afford to lose a lot of money driving it off the lot.
Insurance. Someone said the tow vehicle covers the towed trailer but check that. Mine didn’t. It wasn’t expensive to add it but if we had wrecked it towing it home with that assumtion we would have been screwed.

Tires. If you buy new or unknown used, immediately take the tires off and throw them in the garbage. The new ones suck on most brands. It’s one of the easiest places for them to hide that they’re saving money for a profit.

Warranties. Don’t buy anything. They all suck and have all sorts of “outs” for the warranty company. And don’t expect jack from the manufacturers. They’re all cheapskates and will wiggle out of anything.

Our story:

We camped all over the place in a pop-up for two decades. Even did our honeymoon trip in it. We like camping. We don’t mind “roughing it”.

About five years ago we decided to buy a camper. We went big. We got a 35’ fifth wheel and the one ton Dodge Cummins to pull it. We loved it.

At the time my work was such that I could work from home every day so we thought we’d bolster up the cellular data and Karen would meet me at X and/or her schedule is fairly flexible with advanced notice too, so we’d take some long weekends of four days and wander.

Job change. Didn’t happen. We loved towing the beast to OSH and the occasional weekend outing to the mountains but one that big requires RV parking and hookups or our Honda generator if camping on BLM land or similar. “Boondocking” as they say. But it was awesome. All the comforts of home, big TV, easy chairs, big queen bed. We loved it. But...

It sat. And we get hail. Every summer. So that’s thre short story of why we didn’t want it sitting out here in the prairie getting its butt kicked all the time.

We also had one bit gotcha that wasn’t awful but wasn’t great either. The roof peeled back. Clearly on a two year old new fifth wheel at the time, a manufacturing defect. They fought and fought and fought with me over it and finally I caved and just paid for the stupid repair. And then added some modifications of my own so it couldn’t ever happen again. Dealership tried to help. They got nowhere.

Sooooo... we sold it. And took a depreciation hit. But we figure we saved ourselves thousands and thousands in hail repairs.

Lesson learned. We would do a nice RV again but out here, we would need a shelter or a barn built to put it in before we’d do it again. In other words... a hangar. :)

We also learned we don’t have enough time to go as often as we’d like. And frankly we loved the detachability and price of the trailer but next time it’s motorcoach and it’ll cost a lot more. Reason?

We like to keep rolling and Karen doesn’t want to learn to tow, even something small. So we’d shell out the bucks for an easily driveable Class C she could drive and the ability to wander back and throw lunch together or stretch legs or even lie down for an hour.

If... she’d learn to tow something smaller, we’d change to a better driving truck with an auto and go that route. Or... an in bed camper. But if we’re going to mess with in-bed we might as well just have a drivetrain under the thing that’s permanent.

I was doing all he driving. And that makes for wicked long days even though I enjoy it. Buy something you both can drive.

And nothing unless there’s a shelter or barn built first. Love having the rig at the house. Hated seeing radar shots of purple going over the place when at work or in town.

And the final straw in ours was... I wanted more flight ratings and that takes TIME. We simply weren’t going to use it for anything but OSH for years. So it got put on consignment and sold. Got a decent price out of it considering how much we could have lost on depreciation on a new one, and moved on. We’ll go back to RVing again someday.
 
Lots of good points there.

3 additional factors...

1) We have 3 dogs. Taking them along is fun and saves boarding fees. LOTS of people with RV’s travel with their pets.

2) In our case, its been handy using it as a “construction trailer” and accommodations for almost 2 years while our Lenoir City home is being built.

38333783202_44a24f76f0_z.jpg


3) An RV can also serve as guest accommodations. We’ve stayed in friend’s when visiting, and had friends stay in ours.
 
Specifically about hard sided trailers, some apply to motor coaches and pop ups also.

Pluses:

Sleep in your own bed.

Eat your own food prepared in your own little kitchen.

If you have a place to park it at the house, if can be ready to go or not, work on it if needed, and hitch it up and leave.

There’s always little things to be done to them or little upgrade projects, which are kinda fun.

Go anywhere. Kinda.

Minuses:

If you have to park it elsewhere, storage places and rental fees.

Same thing with those little projects or maintenance, you won’t keep up on them if it’s not at your house. It’ll be a pain to go get it to do those things so it’ll add a week of screwing around with it before every trip.

Almost none at low prices are built well. Even high prices aren’t. They’re going for light weights because people don’t want to buy heavy duty tow vehicles and light weight means crap construction.

No matter how nice of a system it is, black water tanks and dealing with them sucks. Get good gear and be careful and you won’t have Old Faithful at the dump station, but there’s no getting around that dealing with dumping your own poo is fairly nasty. You just deal with it.

Driving. I love driving. I love towing. But a true cross county trip is still an ass kicker in the seat all day. Three hours in a jetliner will get me anywhere in CONUS and there’s times it just makes more sense.

Price. To get a decent quality rig it’s not going to be cheap. You can pay for months and months of really nice hotels for the price of nearly any RV even used.

Gotchas:

Depreciation. Don’t buy new if you can’t afford to lose a lot of money driving it off the lot.
Insurance. Someone said the tow vehicle covers the towed trailer but check that. Mine didn’t. It wasn’t expensive to add it but if we had wrecked it towing it home with that assumtion we would have been screwed.

Tires. If you buy new or unknown used, immediately take the tires off and throw them in the garbage. The new ones suck on most brands. It’s one of the easiest places for them to hide that they’re saving money for a profit.

Warranties. Don’t buy anything. They all suck and have all sorts of “outs” for the warranty company. And don’t expect jack from the manufacturers. They’re all cheapskates and will wiggle out of anything.

Our story:

We camped all over the place in a pop-up for two decades. Even did our honeymoon trip in it. We like camping. We don’t mind “roughing it”.

About five years ago we decided to buy a camper. We went big. We got a 35’ fifth wheel and the one ton Dodge Cummins to pull it. We loved it.

At the time my work was such that I could work from home every day so we thought we’d bolster up the cellular data and Karen would meet me at X and/or her schedule is fairly flexible with advanced notice too, so we’d take some long weekends of four days and wander.

Job change. Didn’t happen. We loved towing the beast to OSH and the occasional weekend outing to the mountains but one that big requires RV parking and hookups or our Honda generator if camping on BLM land or similar. “Boondocking” as they say. But it was awesome. All the comforts of home, big TV, easy chairs, big queen bed. We loved it. But...

It sat. And we get hail. Every summer. So that’s thre short story of why we didn’t want it sitting out here in the prairie getting its butt kicked all the time.

We also had one bit gotcha that wasn’t awful but wasn’t great either. The roof peeled back. Clearly on a two year old new fifth wheel at the time, a manufacturing defect. They fought and fought and fought with me over it and finally I caved and just paid for the stupid repair. And then added some modifications of my own so it couldn’t ever happen again. Dealership tried to help. They got nowhere.

Sooooo... we sold it. And took a depreciation hit. But we figure we saved ourselves thousands and thousands in hail repairs.

Lesson learned. We would do a nice RV again but out here, we would need a shelter or a barn built to put it in before we’d do it again. In other words... a hangar. :)

We also learned we don’t have enough time to go as often as we’d like. And frankly we loved the detachability and price of the trailer but next time it’s motorcoach and it’ll cost a lot more. Reason?

We like to keep rolling and Karen doesn’t want to learn to tow, even something small. So we’d shell out the bucks for an easily driveable Class C she could drive and the ability to wander back and throw lunch together or stretch legs or even lie down for an hour.

If... she’d learn to tow something smaller, we’d change to a better driving truck with an auto and go that route. Or... an in bed camper. But if we’re going to mess with in-bed we might as well just have a drivetrain under the thing that’s permanent.

I was doing all he driving. And that makes for wicked long days even though I enjoy it. Buy something you both can drive.

And nothing unless there’s a shelter or barn built first. Love having the rig at the house. Hated seeing radar shots of purple going over the place when at work or in town.

And the final straw in ours was... I wanted more flight ratings and that takes TIME. We simply weren’t going to use it for anything but OSH for years. So it got put on consignment and sold. Got a decent price out of it considering how much we could have lost on depreciation on a new one, and moved on. We’ll go back to RVing again someday.

It's funny how many things we do based on job conditions that may be variable.

Lots of good points there.

3 additional factors...

1) We have 3 dogs. Taking them along is fun and saves boarding fees. LOTS of people with RV’s travel with their pets.

2) In our case, its been handy using it as a “construction trailer” and accommodations for almost 2 years while our Lenoir City home is being built.

38333783202_44a24f76f0_z.jpg


3) An RV can also serve as guest accommodations. We’ve stayed in friend’s when visiting, and had friends stay in ours.

Your item 3 is something we considered. When we moved here we were having a very hard time finding a property we liked, and we about were ready to give up, buy a plot of land, and build a house on it, and buy a camper/RV/something to live in while it was getting built.

Every now and then I think about wanting an RV of some sort, but I know we wouldn't use it. Right now we don't have enough time that it would ever get used. A boat would be more useful, but we still have a couple years until I think the kids are at a good point for that.
 
My dad bought a pop up trailer when I was younger. It was top of the line at the time - had all the fancy electrically driven slide outs, toilet/shower, heater, AC, taller siding, etc. It was decked out. That said, it was still quite a bit of work to get it setup. It was not great for cold nights, even with the heater. It got cold!

All our friends had toy haulers (fifth wheels). My dad got tired of setting it up all the time and my mom wanted something a bit larger. We ended up with a 21 foot (or maybe it was a 23 foot) Vortex toy hauler. MUCH better. Very little setup required. Much warmer. Took it all over the west coast (Oregon sand dunes, Pacific Coast Highway, Glamis dunes, and all over northern Arizona of course).
 
I forgot to add an important but funny note about our conversation to sell the camper...

We were sitting on the deck of our rural house and realized we used to go camping to get out of the noise and BS of the city.

Nowadays we find RV parks, crowded. And we can almost tolerate how close the neighbors are on an RV loop in a State park.

LOL. We’re sitting there watching a hawk, the sunset, the dogs messing around on the acreage... and realized the lack of the rat race around us lowered our desire to pack up and leave. :)

That realization was the “last straw” that pushed us over the top when we were sitting on the fence about selling it.
 
I forgot to add an important but funny note about our conversation to sell the camper...

We were sitting on the deck of our rural house and realized we used to go camping to get out of the noise and BS of the city.

Nowadays we find RV parks, crowded. And we can almost tolerate how close the neighbors are on an RV loop in a State park.

LOL. We’re sitting there watching a hawk, the sunset, the dogs messing around on the acreage... and realized the lack of the rat race around us lowered our desire to pack up and leave. :)

That realization was the “last straw” that pushed us over the top when we were sitting on the fence about selling it.

That's actually part of the reason why we haven't (and likely wouldn't) get one. On our 11 acre plot we're very well isolated from people and the city. When I talk to folks about going camping, they generally have less privacy than we do unless they're going out at an off-peak time.

Now if you find those off-peak times and take advantage of them, then it can be great. But the reason why they're off-peak is that they're usually hard to take advantage of.
 
That's actually part of the reason why we haven't (and likely wouldn't) get one. On our 11 acre plot we're very well isolated from people and the city. When I talk to folks about going camping, they generally have less privacy than we do unless they're going out at an off-peak time.

Now if you find those off-peak times and take advantage of them, then it can be great. But the reason why they're off-peak is that they're usually hard to take advantage of.

Exactly why we quit camping when I was a kid - our property in the country was so much nicer than any campground or RV park. And exactly why I RV now - even with the crowded and sometimes too noisy RV parks. I get enough boon docking in that I can keep my need for escape partially satisfied.
 
we struggle with why camping. the kids love it, but honestly, we LIVE on 2 wooded acres near a lake with a view of the mountain. it's essentially a campground. I need to sell the trailer, though my wife would love me, my kids would stop talking to me
 
we struggle with why camping. the kids love it, but honestly, we LIVE on 2 wooded acres near a lake with a view of the mountain. it's essentially a campground. I need to sell the trailer, though my wife would love me, my kids would stop talking to me

I think there's something about kids in general that they like camping and "getting off the island." Of course adults like it too, but most people who have property like yours or mine I think are less inclined to go camping because like you say we've made a property with all the benefits of a campground with all the benefits of a home as well. But it's still home, and there's something nice about getting away from home, too.
 
I think regardless of how idyllic one’s home and property is, change is good.

We love our little corner of the N GA mountains, but waking up at the beach or a lake or National Forest or the desert or whatever is a refreshing change of pace.

As are Walmart parking lots!

26904920769_1998a1d6c1_z.jpg
 
Don't get a pop-up. @jesse had a pop-up and brought it by my house once. He showed up and I helped him set it up, it took damn near half an hour of me watching him and trying to help, and it wasn't fun.
I'd like to extend on this...do not buy a pop up because:

- It takes a solid 20-30 minutes to setup or tear down.

- Either you or the wife will forget your cell phone, or your wallet, or your keys, or something you care about inside it every time you fold it up. This sucks. As you must now crank it back up, pull out the giant bed things, etc to retrieve your wallet. Now imagine doing that in the rain..one of those camping trips where it has been raining for days...you will be absolutely covered in mud as will the inside of your truck.

- Since it was raining, now the damn thing is going to grow mold and start smelling unless you can dry it out. How do you dry it out if it's raining at your house too? Well you don't..you wait until it stops raining..Then you spend 30 minutes getting muddy setting it all back up again. Couple days latter tear it all back down. Realize you forgot your cell phone. Set it up again. You see the drill.

- It has no insulation. I don't care how many BTU(s) of air conditioning you shove into the thing - if it is in the direct sun- you will get cooked out just like a tent. If you can keep it in 100% shade, and can shove 12,000+ BTU(s) in it..And sleep naked..it's not so bad.

- But since it has no insulation. You hear everything and everyone hears you. This sucks. In a real RV - you can have a huge drunken party going on next to you - and not hear a damn thing. Also, if some guy in a RV complains about your huge drunken party - he is an ******* and needs to close his windows. If he is in a popup, just give him ear plugs, and tell him to buy a RV. I keep a big box of earplugs in my RV to pass out to the pop-up and tent complainers.

- You can't store anything inside it that is taller than about 18" and have to carefully position everything to have a chance at getting it closed. They never close easy...Any brand..They all suck..Even brand new. Anyone that tells you otherwise is just sore that they bought a brand new $20,000 tent.

- There is a $50 extension cord in my pop-up that I needed the other day. It's such a pain in the ass to get the thing open...I finally just ordered a new extension cord. That's how much you'll hate opening your pop-up.

- We get our popup for free. We're going to give it to someone else for free. The reason? I would have to be one cold-hearted bastard to think it's worth a penny. Someone would have to pay me take even a brand new one.
 
One thing to think about: have a plan for the Rv.

What it will be used for.

How often it will be used.

And before buying have it already planned out when to get rid of it.

Trailer tires bite the big one. Get real tires and rims. I have seen some mid size trailers that have tiny little doodle bug tires and rims. Summer is here and I am already seeing those little bitty tires in little bitty pieces all over the road.
 
One thing to think about: have a plan for the Rv.

What it will be used for.

How often it will be used.

And before buying have it already planned out when to get rid of it.

Trailer tires bite the big one. Get real tires and rims. I have seen some mid size trailers that have tiny little doodle bug tires and rims. Summer is here and I am already seeing those little bitty tires in little bitty pieces all over the road.
TIRES - yes, trailer service tires are hot garbage.

the main brand is Goodyear Marathon. On the airforums board they've seen so many blowouts the joke goes:

RV owner 1 - "ha ha, they call them Marathons because they're good for about 26 miles before they blowout!"
RV owner 2 - "Sure, you can get 26 miles out of them.. if they're riding in the back of the truck!"

So, look at the sidewall age and replace them with a proper load range and inflated LT tire either the day you buy the trailer or soon thereafter. I've limped my marathons along and need to get them off. hoping I can get away with one more trip this year, then over the winter i'll throw LT tires on and never run trailer service tires again.
 
This is a deal breaker for me. I don't want to upgrade trucks for this. Like I said, this may be a pipe dream anyway. This is good stuff though, given me plenty to think about. I even gave a brief thought to buying a plane....That just isnt in the cards, coast to coast in something I could afford would be grueling and I don't want to over the mountains or into super busy airspace.

Wait, it's too far to fly, but you're going drive? o_O If it's too far to fly private, I'll buy a commercial ticket.

I was going to say, "buy a plane" or "buy a faster plane". :D

I'd rather fly a few minutes through busy airspace than drive through congested traffic any day. ;) Different strokes for different folks.
 
Wait, it's too far to fly, but you're going drive? o_O If it's too far to fly private, I'll buy a commercial ticket.

I was going to say, "buy a plane" or "buy a faster plane". :D

I'd rather fly a few minutes through busy airspace than drive through congested traffic any day. ;) Different strokes for different folks.

My guess is your log book looks different than mine. A man has got to know his limitations.
 
My guess is your log book looks different than mine. A man has got to know his limitations.

Probably. I learned at RYY; Class D airspace under the Atlanta Class B. I may have a different comfort level with busy airspace.

If I lived in Prattville I'd probably travel via GA even more due to the time to fly anywhere commercial. Living in Atlanta the ATL airport is nearby and lots of direct flights. My wife is supportive of me flying, but sometimes the dollars or time just don't make sense.
 
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