Thinking About a Boat

weilke said:
It is called the 'cylinder index' and a measure of manliness. Every cylinder on a working internal combustion engine in your possession counts.
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OK, 35 cylinders for me. I used to have a few more, but after the move I have no need for lawn care equipment.
 
txflyer said:
Whatever it is, it has to go behind a F350 crew SRW powerstroke longbed. I have a 110 gallon buddy tank in it for fueling tractors. If I could find a diesel boat, that would be the shiznet. Because I could fuel it with the truck whenever or wherever I want.

While I'm dreaming, why not a diesel SeaVee CC with iPS drives? Before it's over, I'd want GPSS steering with auto pilot and position hold.

What are we up to? $200,000.00 by now? :mad2::lol:





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I towed an O'Day 37 sailboat behind a 15 year old Chevy dually with a 454 from Long Beach to Tablerock lake in Missouri. That truck you have will tow anything of legal dimensions.

If you want a Diesel, you'll have to go with an inboard design.
 
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Bill Jennings said:
OK, 35 cylinders for me. I used to have a few more, but after the move I have no need for lawn care equipment.
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Wow. I only have 12.

But I'll put my Mini Cooper S, 6 speed convertible up against anything I've ever driven for quick-handling fun-to-drive. And its supercharged so I should get some credit for that.

The Volvo is my wife's and it's turbo charged.

The rest are lawn equipment.

John
 
jsstevens said:
Wow. I only have 12.

But I'll put my Mini Cooper S, 6 speed convertible up against anything I've ever driven for quick-handling fun-to-drive. And its supercharged so I should get some credit for that.

The Volvo is my wife's and it's turbo charged.

The rest are lawn equipment.

John
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Volvo's and mini-Cooper's?

Do you by chance smoke a pipe or wear one of those funny golf hats and a lot of plaid?

<jk> :lol:
 
txflyer said:
Volvo's and mini-Cooper's?

Do you by chance smoke a pipe or wear one of those funny golf hats and a lot of plaid?

<jk> :lol:
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I would have added a corduroy sport coat with leather patches on the elbows... :rofl:
 
txflyer said:
Volvo's and mini-Cooper's?

Do you by chance smoke a pipe or wear one of those funny golf hats and a lot of plaid?

<jk> :lol:
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Nope. But as was true in my youth, mumble-mumble years ago, nothing feels more like a sports car to sit in that a British sports car. And while the Mini is manufactured by BMW, the one I have is the last year of the British designed ones. It's breaks. It's expensive (just bought a 5 year warranty for it because the 3 year I bought with it is running out and it's the best investment I've ever made). But it puts a smile on my face every time.

As to the Volvo, if you haven't driven the S-60/V-60 you should. It's a very different platform from the S-40/S-80 and the S-60 which preceded it. This is not your father's Volvo. 205 HP out of 2 liters (base engine). And it handles very well.

I've got a motorcycle license grandfathered in from before you had to take classes and I owned a Yamaha SECA 750. Back then. You know, mumble-mumble years ago.

No corduroy. I do have a black (not tweed) flat cap which I wear in the Mini when I have the top down. Which is often.

John
 
Bill Jennings said:
OK, 35 cylinders for me. I used to have a few more, but after the move I have no need for lawn care equipment.
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I only get to 32. Yard equipment is a really slow way to get to those numbers.
 
jsstevens said:
Nope. But as was true in my youth, mumble-mumble years ago, nothing feels more like a sports car to sit in that a British sports car. And while the Mini is manufactured by BMW, the one I have is the last year of the British designed ones. It's breaks. It's expensive (just bought a 5 year warranty for it because the 3 year I bought with it is running out and it's the best investment I've ever made). But it puts a smile on my face every time.

As to the Volvo, if you haven't driven the S-60/V-60 you should. It's a very different platform from the S-40/S-80 and the S-60 which preceded it. This is not your father's Volvo. 205 HP out of 2 liters (base engine). And it handles very well.

I've got a motorcycle license grandfathered in from before you had to take classes and I owned a Yamaha SECA 750. Back then. You know, mumble-mumble years ago.

No corduroy. I do have a black (not tweed) flat cap which I wear in the Mini when I have the top down. Which is often.

John
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Agreed. People used to ask why I drove POS MGBs all the time, "They fit right". I bought a Miata once hoping that they managed. Nope.:nonod: Drives right, but it fits wrong.
 
Henning said:
Agreed. People used to ask why I drove POS MGBs all the time, "They fit right". I bought a Miata once hoping that they managed. Nope.:nonod: Drives right, but it fits wrong.
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Yep. MGBs and MG Midgets were my dream sports car in high school.

I tried all the common (affordable to me) convertible sports cars before I bought the Mini: Miata (nice, but I don't fit with the top up), Honda S-2000 (same deal), Porche Boxster (barely fit), Nissan 350Z (fit and it was fun but didn't like how it felt to sit in). I drove the Mini and my wife, who was riding along, got out and said "That's the one you'll buy." Smart woman who knows me well.

John
 
weilke said:
It is called the 'cylinder index' and a measure of manliness. Every cylinder on a working internal combustion engine in your possession counts.
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I am at 49..... And reducing the " fleet" so the estate has an easier time to disband it....:redface::redface::redface::redface:...:(
 
N801BH said:
I am at 49.....
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NotWorthy.gif
 
jsstevens said:
Yep. MGBs and MG Midgets were my dream sports car in high school.

I tried all the common (affordable to me) convertible sports cars before I bought the Mini: Miata (nice, but I don't fit with the top up), Honda S-2000 (same deal), Porche Boxster (barely fit), Nissan 350Z (fit and it was fun but didn't like how it felt to sit in). I drove the Mini and my wife, who was riding along, got out and said "That's the one you'll buy." Smart woman who knows me well.

John
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Probably because you didn't complain about it when you drove it.:lol:;)
 
Bill Jennings said:
Many of us are gear/motor heads. If it turns dead dinosaurs into power and noise, I LIKE it. Planes, cars, bikes, boats....
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In the end, I'd have to say I'm addicted to vehicles. I can't wait for the day when all my vehicles from boat to airplane is powered by electric motors. Hopefully in my lifetime would be nice. I have to say, I have grown weary of the ICE. It's a cantankerous old 19th century ***** and really needs to be relegated to collector/special interest status and taken out of daily service. The electric revolution is coming, I just hope I live long enough and stay healthy enough to enjoy it.
 
Henning said:
Does the Binford have a 6 under the hood?
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The Binford has a 351 W under the hood and a 502 Turboe'd Chevy in the back running the hydraulic pump.. That creation has about 870 HP combined on 4 wheels...:yikes::yikes::yikes::yikes:..

But hey.... Someone had to do it...:redface:.....:D
 
Dav8or said:
In the end, I'd have to say I'm addicted to vehicles. I can't wait for the day when all my vehicles from boat to airplane is powered by electric motors. Hopefully in my lifetime would be nice. I have to say, I have grown weary of the ICE. It's a cantankerous old 19th century ***** and really needs to be relegated to collector/special interest status and taken out of daily service. The electric revolution is coming, I just hope I live long enough and stay healthy enough to enjoy it.
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You might find value in some study on 'energy density'. Electric vehicles have been around since right after Ford got going, and even before.

The latest and greatest storage media for electric charge are called nanotube capacitors. Some other efforts are the double layer caps, and there's talk of merging these technologies with the long term storage of chemical batteries with obscure temp coef operating principles. Basically, the chemical storage of electrons is many orders of magnitude lower than refined gasoline.

Great strides have been made in electrical storage density, but it's still a way off from being viable. The top of the line Tesla if used like a modern Toyota with AC, heater, lights, stereo, bluetooth, electric windows, etc will only go about 1/4-1/2 the distance of a Corolla on a tank of gas. After that, you get to sit for 40-90 minutes while your battery pack is fully charge, or accept a lower rate of charge for ever declining range.
 
Yep the answer to electric vehicles is H2 fuel cells, and Toyota is pushing it forward by doing what Elon Musk did and putting all the patents into the public domain. The company that decides to finally produce hydrogen for a mass consumer market will be the company that leads this country and world into the future.
 
Henning said:
Yep the answer to electric vehicles is H2 fuel cells, and Toyota is pushing it forward by doing what Elon Musk did and putting all the patents into the public domain. The company that decides to finally produce hydrogen for a mass consumer market will be the company that leads this country and world into the future.
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H2 fuel cells still have energy density deficit compared to gasoline and especially diesel. Heck, they're at a deficit even to ethanol.

It's hard to compete with dumping high density chemical energy into a tank for energy transfer speed.

John
 
51 cylinders in this household. I think that means I've got Ben beat. :D
 
jsstevens said:
H2 fuel cells still have energy density deficit compared to gasoline and especially diesel. Heck, they're at a deficit even to ethanol.

It's hard to compete with dumping high density chemical energy into a tank for energy transfer speed.

John
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It doesn't matter, they are at a water positive, and you can even gain some electricity in the condensation process. You then tank the water and take a hot shower with it when you get home, or return it to the fuel station for a rebate where they can re electrolyze it or sell it as water.

Besides which, we can get much of that hydrogen by using unrealized base load that we already have that we waste right now, lost to time. The market will take a while to grow beyond what we can harness from reclaimed waste.

Energy density means squat when you throw away over 70% of the product.

Pure water is the most valuable commodity on the planet, we need to transfer to an energy system that piggybacks the purification and transportation of that commodity into the same cost structure. That is how you create efficiencies that allow man to have populations beyond nature's means to support.
 
jsstevens said:
H2 fuel cells still have energy density deficit compared to gasoline and especially diesel. Heck, they're at a deficit even to ethanol.

It's hard to compete with dumping high density chemical energy into a tank for energy transfer speed.

John
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They are a long ways from pushing a 18 wheeler across the country. Algae bio-diesel is here now tech, at 60 cents per gallon.
 
Tom-D said:
They are a long ways from pushing a 18 wheeler across the country. Algae bio-diesel is here now tech, at 60 cents per gallon.
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The U.S. Navy has had Fuel Cell Semi tractors for years. They are equivalent to 600hp and have full instant torque at 0 rpm available with no clutch or wasted energy turned to heat involved in lifting a load. While they aren't hauling cross country, that is a matter of infrastructure, not the truck's ability. The technology is all there.
 
docmirror said:
You might find value in some study on 'energy density'. Electric vehicles have been around since right after Ford got going, and even before.

The latest and greatest storage media for electric charge are called nanotube capacitors. Some other efforts are the double layer caps, and there's talk of merging these technologies with the long term storage of chemical batteries with obscure temp coef operating principles. Basically, the chemical storage of electrons is many orders of magnitude lower than refined gasoline.

Great strides have been made in electrical storage density, but it's still a way off from being viable. The top of the line Tesla if used like a modern Toyota with AC, heater, lights, stereo, bluetooth, electric windows, etc will only go about 1/4-1/2 the distance of a Corolla on a tank of gas. After that, you get to sit for 40-90 minutes while your battery pack is fully charge, or accept a lower rate of charge for ever declining range.
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Yes, yes, isn't gasoline fantastic. Here's the point you're missing completely. Batteries and capacitors don't have to equal the energy density of gasoline, they just have to equal 30% the energy density of gasoline. Gasoline is all packed with energy and yet we waste 70% of all the gasoline we burn. 70% goes to nothing and accomplishes nothing. The ICE is a POS when it comes to efficiency.

Notice I said I want electric powered vehicles, not battery powered vehicles. I don't really give rat's ass what makes my electric motors turn. Battery, capacitor, fuel cell, solar cell, I don't care. Somebody can invent a fuel cell where you pour gasoline in it and I'd be perfectly happy.

This idea that electric energy storage has to equal gasoline 1:1 to be "viable" is bull crap. Clearly electric cars are viable right now. More and more hit the road every year. At the present moment, electric cars are a compromise over a traditional car, but they can easily suit the needs of most people. Every five years or so, they get better and better. I predict that we are very close to the tipping point where performance vs. cost will be attractive enough to get a lot of people to switch.
 
Dav8or said:
Yes, yes, isn't gasoline fantastic. Here's the point you're missing completely. Batteries and capacitors don't have to equal the energy density of gasoline, they just have to equal 30% the energy density of gasoline. Gasoline is all packed with energy and yet we waste 70% of all the gasoline we burn. 70% goes to nothing and accomplishes nothing. The ICE is a POS when it comes to efficiency.

Notice I said I want electric powered vehicles, not battery powered vehicles. I don't really give rat's ass what makes my electric motors turn. Battery, capacitor, fuel cell, solar cell, I don't care. Somebody can invent a fuel cell where you pour gasoline in it and I'd be perfectly happy.

This idea that electric energy storage has to equal gasoline 1:1 to be "viable" is bull crap. Clearly electric cars are viable right now. More and more hit the road every year. At the present moment, electric cars are a compromise over a traditional car, but they can easily suit the needs of most people. Every five years or so, they get better and better. I predict that we are very close to the tipping point where performance vs. cost will be attractive enough to get a lot of people to switch.
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Thank you, and we waste a ****load more creating that energy dense fuel as well. The trip from underground crude to your gas tank is a really expensive, energy intensive and wasteful, trip. Tar sands oils even more so, by an order of magnitude, plus there is a whole bunch of fresh water contaminated in the process. We do not need that oil at this point in our society.
 
Dav8or said:
Yes, yes, isn't gasoline fantastic. Here's the point you're missing completely. Batteries and capacitors don't have to equal the energy density of gasoline, they just have to equal 30% the energy density of gasoline. Gasoline is all packed with energy and yet we waste 70% of all the gasoline we burn. 70% goes to nothing and accomplishes nothing. The ICE is a POS when it comes to efficiency.

Notice I said I want electric powered vehicles, not battery powered vehicles. I don't really give rat's ass what makes my electric motors turn. Battery, capacitor, fuel cell, solar cell, I don't care. Somebody can invent a fuel cell where you pour gasoline in it and I'd be perfectly happy.

This idea that electric energy storage has to equal gasoline 1:1 to be "viable" is bull crap. Clearly electric cars are viable right now. More and more hit the road every year. At the present moment, electric cars are a compromise over a traditional car, but they can easily suit the needs of most people. Every five years or so, they get better and better. I predict that we are very close to the tipping point where performance vs. cost will be attractive enough to get a lot of people to switch.
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Well, being that I worked in power generation for a quite a while, I didn't miss any point - at least not by design. You quoted me in entirety and notice that not once did I use the word 'efficiency' or any of it's derivations.

However, you make a good point yourself, that even though we waste a great deal of the energy of gasoline, battery utility still can't make up the difference, even though in conversion of energy to motion, electrical is much more 'efficient'. In fact it's worth pointing out that electric propulsion is so darned efficient that nuke subs are almost always driven by electric motors. However, the power to run those motors is made by nasty old neutrons of Uranium. You don't want to get me started on the waste of energy involved in nuclear reactors. It would make an ICE engine look positively green. :cornut::idea:
 
docmirror said:
Well, being that I worked in power generation for a quite a while, I didn't miss any point - at least not by design. You quoted me in entirety and notice that not once did I use the word 'efficiency' or any of it's derivations.

However, you make a good point yourself, that even though we waste a great deal of the energy of gasoline, battery utility still can't make up the difference, even though in conversion of energy to motion, electrical is much more 'efficient'. In fact it's worth pointing out that electric propulsion is so darned efficient that nuke subs are almost always driven by electric motors. However, the power to run those motors is made by nasty old neutrons of Uranium. You don't want to get me started on the waste of energy involved in nuclear reactors. It would make an ICE engine look positively green. :cornut::idea:
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There is huge waste in any single product system. The petroleum industry would not exist on energy alone, the plastics and other petrochemical industries are what sustain that viability, just as it is the fuel industry that sustains the viability of the other. That symbiotic relationship is why we still use oil for fuel, because if we don't it drives up the cost of manufacturing.

The natural byproduct of the electric industry is hydrogen. It allows us to consume all the electricity produced eliminating "off peak" base load waste, while at the same time creating a secondary revenue stream in water. The water market is the one that is ignored, because if we let it get to a stage of criticality, there will be greater profits to be made, and social control to be had. Rather than opening that market now and easing the social problems, it's more profitable to squeeze every last penny we have out of the current infrastructure first and reach a breaking point of social revolution, then take all their money to build the new infrastructure and billing it on the public dime.
 
jsstevens said:
H2 fuel cells still have energy density deficit compared to gasoline and especially diesel. Heck, they're at a deficit even to ethanol.

It's hard to compete with dumping high density chemical energy into a tank for energy transfer speed.

John
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Again, no need to equal gasoline energy density, we just need to equal or best 30% of gasoline's energy. It is hard to compete, but thankfully there are armies of people working that problem now.
 
Dav8or said:
Again, no need to equal gasoline energy density, we just need to equal or best 30% of gasoline's energy. It is hard to compete, but thankfully there are armies of people working that problem now.
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But energy density does matter in the energy transfer speed (read as fill up).

An electric car would handle about 80-85% of my driving. And I like motors for a variety of reasons: max torque at start, no transmission required, individual wheel control (think of the traction/stability control options!). But for that other 15-20% there is no way currently (or in the forseeable future as far as I am aware) to get 300 miles worth of energy in my vehicle in 5 minutes. Whether it's 30% of the gasoline energy or not. And fuel cells are not 100% efficient either.

Fiat is leasing pure electric vehicles in California. Included in the lease is use of a gasoline powered car for 2 weeks per year to handle longer trips. Guess why?

John
 
BMW offering an optional standby gen in their elec vehicle. Guess what powers the standby gen?

The infrastructure for electric I would like to see is a charging station, much like a current gas station with a SAE standardized battery module. It would be on a motorized lift asm, and the 'buyer' would drive up to a stall with a opening underneath. There would be a locating pin set in the bottom of the car, and a locator sight system on the lift. The used batt cell would be taken down, and moved onto a slow charger, and a full one would be motorized up into the 'buyer's car with the lift system. A few charging checks, and a bill presented and off they go. Alternately, and with maybe a bit less trouble the batt pack could be accessed from the rear with a little trolley deal.

I could design it, but SAE needs to step in and standardize the size, shape, connections, voltages, etc of the pack so it can be mass produced. Like a D cell is always a D cell, and anyone can make them, except in this case they are exchange, and not purchase. The rights to exchange would come with the car when bought.
 
docmirror said:
BMW offering an optional standby gen in their elec vehicle. Guess what powers the standby gen?

The infrastructure for electric I would like to see is a charging station, much like a current gas station with a SAE standardized battery module. It would be on a motorized lift asm, and the 'buyer' would drive up to a stall with a opening underneath. There would be a locating pin set in the bottom of the car, and a locator sight system on the lift. The used batt cell would be taken down, and moved onto a slow charger, and a full one would be motorized up into the 'buyer's car with the lift system. A few charging checks, and a bill presented and off they go. Alternately, and with maybe a bit less trouble the batt pack could be accessed from the rear with a little trolley deal.

I could design it, but SAE needs to step in and standardize the size, shape, connections, voltages, etc of the pack so it can be mass produced. Like a D cell is always a D cell, and anyone can make them, except in this case they are exchange, and not purchase. The rights to exchange would come with the car when bought.
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And that would address the speed of energy transfer issue nicely.

John
 
docmirror said:
BMW offering an optional standby gen in their elec vehicle. Guess what powers the standby gen?

The infrastructure for electric I would like to see is a charging station, much like a current gas station with a SAE standardized battery module. It would be on a motorized lift asm, and the 'buyer' would drive up to a stall with a opening underneath. There would be a locating pin set in the bottom of the car, and a locator sight system on the lift. The used batt cell would be taken down, and moved onto a slow charger, and a full one would be motorized up into the 'buyer's car with the lift system. A few charging checks, and a bill presented and off they go. Alternately, and with maybe a bit less trouble the batt pack could be accessed from the rear with a little trolley deal.

I could design it, but SAE needs to step in and standardize the size, shape, connections, voltages, etc of the pack so it can be mass produced. Like a D cell is always a D cell, and anyone can make them, except in this case they are exchange, and not purchase. The rights to exchange would come with the car when bought.
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All the engineering is done. Last I heard, these guys were bankrupt, but they did build the changing station and people did buy the Renault that goes with it.

Better Place battery swap station.

 
Dav8or said:
All the engineering is done. Last I heard, these guys were bankrupt, but they did build the changing station and people did buy the Renault that goes with it.

Better Place battery swap station.

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Cooleo! I was thinking 'patent it now!'. Too late.
 
N801BH said:
:sad::sad::sad::sad::sad::sad::sad::sad::sad::sad:..

Damn you Ted....:mad2:...................................:D
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jesse said:
Only 33 cylinders for me. Guess I need to do some more craigslist shopping.
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I was surprised to be higher than Ben. Aided by the 310, boat, 2 chainsaws, and two riding mowers

Oh wait, I forgot to count one riding mower. 53. :D
 
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