The sky is always blue in Colorado...

Clark1961

Touchdown! Greaser!
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'cept when it isn't.

Decided to try a x-c to Four Corners Regional solo on Saturday as part of the commercial requirements. Mountain obscuration predicted over the norhern portion of the western slope but the forecast for the southern portion looked ok.

Departed FTG to the south and turned west once clear of APA's airspace. Cruise climb once clear of the Denver Bravo and everything was ok running 65% power and peak EGT. O2 on before 12K and slowly climbing over the foothills towards South Park.

The winds were higher than forecast and I started to have some doubts about the flight. Lots of weather to the northwest as predicted. There were broken clouds ahead and the winds were a little higher than forecast. Also I was picking up a little vibration. The gauges, fuel pressure, MP, & RPM were rock steady.

Continued the climb and maintained positional awareness. The vibration was increasing but the engine instruments were still steady. It was a short "pulse" of vibration about once a minute or so and seemed to be increasing in magnitude. When I was about to leave the South Park basin to the west I decided the vibration was too severe and turned back toward Denver saying to myself that I probably wouldn't leave the Basin with the engine behaving as it currently was. I really didn't like the idea but knew there are plenty of wide open spaces to land in the Basin if required.

Finished the turn toward Denver and started to adjust the mixture. Bingo! the engine smoothed out. I had just gone too lean on the mixture. Turned back on course.

Over Salida, the cover was broken with layers at 14K & 16K. I was at 16.5K and looking at solid weather ahead. Winds were out of the southwest at 32 but I was making 145 TAS so still making decent progress. OAT is 0 C. Climb to 17.5K and still not above the clouds.

My training says stay out of the mountains when winds are high and visibility is limited so I'm not liking the situation. I decide that it's time to divert and turn south toward open sky.

A couple minutes flight to the south and it's a whole 'nuther world. It looks like I can drop down and fly the San Luis valley to the south with no problems. But what about the clouds all along the eastern rim of the valley that seem to hug the mountains and disappear on the downwind side? Ok, I've screwed up on the engine set up and the winds are higher than forecast. Two strikes and I'm out. I turn east towards Canyon City.

The magic box now reports winds of 50 knots out of the southwest and my groundspeed is impressive. Also, the tDak will make 145 knots TAS at 65% power - ya just gotta get high enough. There is a lenticular cloud to the north as I'm headed over the pass. I'm high enough that the pass isn't important but it is clear that the weather is affected by the pass. Clouds to both the north and south but clear ahead.

After a touch and go at 1V6 and fuel at PUB I cruised back to FTG.

Ok, I probably could have finished the trip as originally planned by heading south down the San Luis valley then turning west. I'm still spooked by the high winds and the probability of mountain wave. In other words, I think there's a fair chance I would have been swatted around like a fly in the San Luis valley. I'm sure that more experienced folks may have a different take on the situation. Listening to Flight Watch and Denver (approach services for PUB ) it is clear that at least two other folks were attempting to head west into the mountains. Dunno how it worked out for them but at least there were no newspaper stories.
 
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You never regret a safe choice.
 
Don't "F" with the mountains. Just don't. Good call.
 
If you want the contrasting story, read the NTSB report about the guy from Houston who tried to get home from CO last year in his 182. You'll enjoy your story more.

'cept when it isn't.

Decided to try a x-c to Four Corners Regional solo on Saturday as part of the commercial requirements. Mountain obscuration predicted over the norhern portion of the western slope but the forecast for the southern portion looked ok.

Departed FTG to the south and turned west once clear of APA's airspace. Cruise climb once clear of the Denver Bravo and everything was ok running 65% power and peak EGT. O2 on before 12K and slowly climbing over the foothills towards South Park.

The winds were higher than forecast and I started to have some doubts about the flight. Lots of weather to the northwest as predicted. There were broken clouds ahead and the winds were a little higher than forecast. Also I was picking up a little vibration. The gauges, fuel pressure, MP, & RPM were rock steady.

Continued the climb and maintained positional awareness. The vibration was increasing but the engine instruments were still steady. It was a short "pulse" of vibration about once a minute or so and seemed to be increasing in magnitude. When I was about to leave the South Park basin to the west I decided the vibration was too severe and turned back toward Denver saying to myself that I probably wouldn't leave the Basin with the engine behaving as it currently was. I really didn't like the idea but knew there are plenty of wide open spaces to land in the Basin if required.

Finished the turn toward Denver and started to adjust the mixture. Bingo! the engine smoothed out. I had just gone too lean on the mixture. Turned back on course.

Over Salida, the cover was broken with layers at 14K & 16K. I was at 16.5K and looking at solid weather ahead. Winds were out of the southwest at 32 but I was making 145 TAS so still making decent progress. OAT is 0 C. Climb to 17.5K and still not above the clouds.

My training says stay out of the mountains when winds are high and visibility is limited so I'm not liking the situation. I decide that it's time to divert and turn south toward open sky.

A couple minutes flight to the south and it's a whole 'nuther world. It looks like I can drop down and fly the San Luis valley to the south with no problems. But what about the clouds all along the eastern rim of the valley that seem to hug the mountains and disappear on the downwind side? Ok, I've screwed up on the engine set up and the winds are higher than forecast. Two strikes and I'm out. I turn east towards Canyon City.

The magic box now reports winds of 50 knots out of the southwest and my groundspeed is impressive. Also, the tDak will make 145 knots TAS at 65% power - ya just gotta get high enough. There is a lenticular cloud to the north as I'm headed over the pass. I'm high enough that the pass isn't important but it is clear that the weather is affected by the pass. Clouds to both the north and south but clear ahead.

After a touch and go at 1V6 and fuel at PUB I cruised back to FTG.

Ok, I probably could have finished the trip as originally planned by heading south down the San Luis valley then turning west. I'm still spooked by the high winds and the probability of mountain wave. In other words, I think there's a fair chance I would have been swatted around like a fly in the San Luis valley. I'm sure that more experienced folks may have a different take on the situation. Listening to Flight Watch and Denver (approach services for PUB ) it is clear that at least two other folks were attempting to head west into the mountains. Dunno how it worked out for them but at least there were no newspaper stories.
 
Nice write up and good decision making processes, in my opinion.

BTW - tell me about your Dakota. I've got a few hours in a turbo Dakota, and the club I just joined just decided to replace the Archer with a Dakota (normally aspirated, tho - I need to find out the reasoning on that. I'm sure it's strictly maintenance related).
 
If you want the contrasting story, read the NTSB report about the guy from Houston who tried to get home from CO last year in his 182. You'll enjoy your story more.

That was my thought, too. It was actually about this time of year, if I remember correctly. Mid-late August.
 
That was my thought, too. It was actually about this time of year, if I remember correctly. Mid-late August.
Almost to the day. We were schedule for a fly-in to Creede that day. We drove. In fact must have been on Kenosha Pass very close to crash time. There was snow on the highway.

This weekend it was Glenwood. Seven planes made it in Saturday morning. Bases were much higher than last year.
 
Almost to the day. We were schedule for a fly-in to Creede that day. We drove. In fact must have been on Kenosha Pass very close to crash time. There was snow on the highway.

This weekend it was Glenwood. Seven planes made it in Saturday morning. Bases were much higher than last year.

You made a good decision. I was living in Frisco at the time, and while I don't remember the details of the crash (time, exact place, etc.), I do specifically remember that the weather was terrible for a good stretch of time during which the crash occurred. Rain, sleet, snow, thunder, etc. At the E. tunnel, there was a good couple inches of slushy-type stuff on the ground, and from what I remember, that crash happened ~12K.
 
What did you do in Creede? Beautiful place but not much there IIRC.

Good summer theater, mining history (underground museum), did a horse drawn wagon ride to a chuck wagon bbq lunch. Also lots of hiking and ATVing. You can rent ATVs and ride right from town.
 
You made a good decision. I was living in Frisco at the time, and while I don't remember the details of the crash (time, exact place, etc.), I do specifically remember that the weather was terrible for a good stretch of time during which the crash occurred. Rain, sleet, snow, thunder, etc. At the E. tunnel, there was a good couple inches of slushy-type stuff on the ground, and from what I remember, that crash happened ~12K.

Not much of a decision, I wish they were all that easy. One plane (out of 20 some signed up) made it IFR but had to go to Santa Fe to stay out of the ice, then duck under and fly up the Rio Grande. Last Friday was tougher, almost drove but forecast was good so we made it just fine.


It was right on the Continental Divide due East of Brekenridge.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20080825X01302&ntsbno=DEN08FA141&akey=1
 
BTW - tell me about your Dakota. I've got a few hours in a turbo Dakota, and the club I just joined just decided to replace the Archer with a Dakota (normally aspirated, tho - I need to find out the reasoning on that. I'm sure it's strictly maintenance related).

We'll have to do some flying some day soon. I'm about to the point I feel comfortable trying some approaches with the new panel toys so I'll email or call.

I'd agree that folks believe the t-Dakota has higher operating costs. The NA Dakota has less power operating around here and a higher fuel burn (according to the book, dunno 'bout real world). I'm sure I wouldn't want a t-Dak in a multi-pilot environment since a small screw-up on manifold pressure or operating temperature can get real expensive.

Also, the NA Dakota has a higher max gross and a higher useful load. The t-Dak is faster.:D
 
Not much of a decision, I wish they were all that easy. One plane (out of 20 some signed up) made it IFR but had to go to Santa Fe to stay out of the ice, then duck under and fly up the Rio Grande. Last Friday was tougher, almost drove but forecast was good so we made it just fine.


It was right on the Continental Divide due East of Brekenridge.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20080825X01302&ntsbno=DEN08FA141&akey=1
That crash caused a hiking buddy of mine who was one of the SAR team members to tell his team commander he would never work another missing aircraft search ever again because of what he saw that day. I've seen some pictures one of his colleagues took on the scene and it was pretty bad even by aircraft crash standards because of the presence of the kids.
 
BTW - tell me about your Dakota. I've got a few hours in a turbo Dakota, and the club I just joined just decided to replace the Archer with a Dakota (normally aspirated, tho - I need to find out the reasoning on that. I'm sure it's strictly maintenance related).

Greg,

The Dakota/Turbo Dakota thing is kind of weird - The Turbo Dakota (PA28-201T) really should be called the "Turbo Arrow FG" as it has the same Continental TSIO-360 200hp engine as the Turbo Arrows, while the NA Dakota (PA28-236) has a 235hp Lyc O-540 powerplant. So, they're kind of different airplanes despite the name similarity.

Presumably, the club has decided that they want to carry more stuff and/or burn more gas.
 
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Greg,

The Dakota/Turbo Dakota thing is kind of weird - The Turbo Dakota (PA28-201T) really should be called the "Turbo Arrow FG" as it has the Lyc TIO-360 4-cylinder engine, while the NA Dakota (PA28-236) has a 235hp Lyc O-540 6-cylinder powerplant. So, they're kind of different airplanes despite the name similarity.

Ummm, the t-Dak has the Continental TSIO-360-FB which is a six. Yes, it is the same engine as the t-Arrow and similar to the engine used in the Seneca II.

Thinking of the t-Dak as a t-Arrow really is misleading since it has about 200 lbs more useful load. Compare that to the 100 lb useful load difference between the NA-Dak and t-Dak.

They all share the same airframe, FAA identifier, and type certificate.
 
Ummm, the t-Dak has the Continental TSIO-360-FB which is a six. Yes, it is the same engine as the t-Arrow and similar to the engine used in the Seneca II.

Thinking of the t-Dak as a t-Arrow really is misleading since it has about 200 lbs more useful load. Compare that to the 100 lb useful load difference between the NA-Dak and t-Dak.

They all share the same airframe, FAA identifier, and type certificate.

Doh! That's what I get for reading Wikipedia instead of the type certificate (which I have on my computer already). I still find it odd because most turbo birds have at least the same if not greater HP rating than their NA brethren, not less. I've just always found it weird.

I still think the "T-Dak" is more like the "T-Arrow" than the "NA-Dak" - Not in terms of useful load, but the other similarities like horsepower and even the model number (PA28-201T vs. PA28R-201T or PA28-236).

Piper sure did make a lot of variations of that bird, didn't they? 18 different PA28's on the type certificate!
 
Hey Clark - I had a ball yesterday - thanks! and, very nice plane! I'll let you fill in the flight details if you choose.

Anthony - which hangar did you have the Tiger in? Clark's is very near where you used to park. (if not your old hangar? maybe? Wouldn't THAT be a "small world" phenom?)
 
I still think the "T-Dak" is more like the "T-Arrow" than the "NA-Dak" - Not in terms of useful load, but the other similarities like horsepower and even the model number (PA28-201T vs. PA28R-201T or PA28-236).

Piper sure did make a lot of variations of that bird, didn't they? 18 different PA28's on the type certificate!

Ah, so you're keying on horsepower and model number. Yep, they are very purty-near identical. I basically just look at the performance numbers.


Hey Clark - I had a ball yesterday - thanks! and, very nice plane! I'll let you fill in the flight details if you choose.

Anthony - which hangar did you have the Tiger in? Clark's is very near where you used to park. (if not your old hangar? maybe? Wouldn't THAT be a "small world" phenom?)

Thanks for the safety pilot time Greg. I obviously needed the practice. The two-and-a-half months without an approach really showed.

For other folks making the transition to using the Aspen: wow, it's a big change. Flying the diamonds on the attitude indicator is much easier than the needles. I'm thinkin' it's just the reduced scan area that helps since I can see all parameters with minimal eye movement. It takes some getting used to but it's certainly a huge improvement.

For anyone not flying in Colorado yesterday afternoon, it was an amazingly smooooth day for August. It's too bad that visibility was restricted to a little less than a hundred miles. :D
 
A bit bumpy at 9.5 coming back from Canon City (1V6) to FTG. Found a wonderful non-chain restaurant on Main St in Canon City that had the most incredible ribs - so good, didn't even need any BBQ sauce. And home-made potato chips. And don't forget the flour tortilla with apples, vanilla ice cream with chocolate and caramel sauce on top - and the whipped cream, too.

Ah, shades of "Julie & Julia".

[and if you need closer safety pilot, let me know - I'm based at FTG also]
 
Always need more safety pilot, 'specially one that knows how to find good BBQ.
 
When I flew to Canon City last time all I could find on Main Street was an Italian place. Would have loved rigs.
 
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