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alaskaflyer

alaskaflyer

Final Approach
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Alaskaflyer
So, feeling frustrated today, I thought I'd throw this out there...

How long did it take you in your search for an aircraft to purchase? I've been actively looking for "my first" since December, and still no dice.

/Rant on/ I've bounced back and forth between models, reevaluated my mission needs about 200 times, calculated my budget almost as often... :rofl: Laid down half of a ASU twice now for an annual-based prebuy on different planes, each time finding unpleasant surprises I wasn't willing to live with. The rep at AVEMCO I'm dealing with is going to start charging me for his fax service ;) /rant off/

I've been looking for a nice Cessna 170B with a basic IFR panel, but can't seem to catch one. So I wrestle with settling for a 172, which would make my search easier and my insurance cheaper, but won't allow me to do what I would like to do up here about 33% of the time.
 
 
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Oh, I know...believe me, I am wired into every aircraft sales site, message board and newspaper out there :p

Actually the firewall aft 170 was intriguing to me when I looked at it Friday...until I thought about what it would be like as a new owner to try to coordinate the engine install. No, I'm going to take the advice that I should be looking for an aircraft that has everything I want installed already, at least this go-round.

Besides, when you consider the cost of a 0 time engine, labor to install it, the nationwide search for an engine mount for it, resurrecting what appear to be gyro instruments that haven't stirred in a while, avionics...the price isn't that great anymore unless the buyer has the letters "A" and "P" after his/her name.

The one in Glendale is a beautiful ship (though I've heard I should be careful of the N models, something about AD's on the Lycoming in that series) but it is out of my self-imposed price range.

Those 170's in Controller are, well, see my original post.

Arrg!
 
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I wasn't serious about the one in Fairbanks. It would cost to much and take to long to be worth it
 
alaskaflyer said:
Oh, I know...believe me, I am wired into every aircraft sales site, message board and newspaper out there :p

Actually the firewall aft 170 was intriguing to me when I looked at it Friday...until I thought about what it would be like as a new owner to try to coordinate the engine install. No, I'm going to take the advice that I should be looking for an aircraft that has everything I want installed already, at least this go-round.

Besides, when you consider the cost of a 0 time engine, labor to install it, the nationwide search for an engine mount for it, resurrecting what appear to be gyro instruments that haven't stirred in a while, avionics...the price isn't that great anymore unless the buyer has the letters "A" and "P" after his/her name.

...
Click to expand...

There's a certain guy hangs around here who has the A and P after his name who really knows and loves Cessnas. In fact, he sold his ground up rebuilt 170 to a lucky new owner. He's also located about as near you as he can be and still be the lower 48.

What a new owner would need to do is become very good friends with that guy, I think he's busy doing his latest rebuild. He certainly can offer you the best advice on a likely candidate.
 
alaskaflyer said:
How long did it take you in your search for an aircraft to purchase? I've been actively looking for "my first" since December, and still no dice.
Click to expand...
My 1st plane, a 172, was the 1st plane I looked at - saw a posting on the board at the local airport. Pre-buy went well and it was what I wanted. The second, a 182RG, found me. The flight school put the deal together to buy my 172 and sell me the RG. I did get lucky...

Hang in there, the right plane will be found.
 
The two planes I bought have been the luck of the draw. Being at the right place and knowing the right person at the right time. I was told that if I was looking for the right plane for me, I would never find it. You have to find the make and model you want, and then make it yours by adding the things that work for you. Good luck in your search, but take your time and hang in there.
 
OK I understand that your dream plane is a 170, but if you can't find one in your price range, you might have to settle for some thing else. or fix some problems.

What aircraft other than a 170 would you except?
What is your price range?
Does it have to have skis, floats,
Hold 4.
Must it be a tail dragger?
 
NC19143 said:
OK I understand that your dream plane is a 170, but if you can't find one in your price range, you might have to settle for some thing else. or fix some problems.

What aircraft other than a 170 would you except?
What is your price range?
Does it have to have skis, floats,
Hold 4.
Must it be a tail dragger?
Click to expand...

No, actually my dream plane is a Maule M6 or M7-180 :goofy: But I need to build time in a taildragger that is a bit more forgiving first.

My home airstrip requires skis for 4 1/2 months per year. I could use a 172 with a nose ski, but for various and sundry reasons that is a poor substitute.

And so, my requirements:

Low-to-midtime engine
4 seats
Cruise fuel burn less than 10gph (for now)
Able to handle light off-airport stuff in brushy areas
Basic IFR
Max price $50K (maybe a little wiggle room)
Autogas STC would be highly desirable
Taildragger highly desirable
STC for skis available
Insurable for a pilot with less than 250 hours TT

As you can see the 170 fits this bill very well, which is why I have been looking for one. I plan on putting between 200-400 hours on it before I move up, so I don't want a plane that I would have to be in the position of selling with a run out engine - hence the low-to-mid SMOH requirement.
 
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alaskaflyer said:
No, actually my dream plane is a Maule M6 or M7-180 :goofy: But I need to build time in a taildragger that is a bit more forgiving first.

My home airstrip requires skis for 4 1/2 months per year. I could use a 172 with a nose ski, but for various and sundry reasons that is a poor substitute.

And so, my requirements:

Low-to-midtime engine
4 seats
Cruise fuel burn less than 10gph (for now)
Able to handle light off-airport stuff in brushy areas
Basic IFR
Max price $50K (maybe a little wiggle room)
Autogas STC would be highly desirable
Taildragger highly desirable
STC for skis available
Insurable for a pilot with less than 250 hours TT

As you can see the 170 fits this bill very well, which is why I have been looking for one. I plan on putting between 200-400 hours on it before I move up, so I don't want a plane that I would have to be in the position of selling with a run out engine - hence the low-to-mid SMOH requirement.
Click to expand...



would an M-5-180-C do the job? there is one here that is not advertised but he will sell for 45k
 

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NC19143 said:
OK I understand that your dream plane is a 170, but if you can't find one in your price range, you might have to settle for some thing else. or fix some problems.

What aircraft other than a 170 would you except?
What is your price range?
Does it have to have skis, floats,
Hold 4.
Must it be a tail dragger?
Click to expand...

*PSSSTTT* Richard! Dat's da guy I was talking about.
 
mikea said:
*PSSSTTT* Richard! Dat's da guy I was talking about.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike. we do what we can.
 
NC19143 said:
would an M-5-180-C do the job? there is one here that is not advertised but he will sell for 45k
Click to expand...

Oh no! Don't tempt me!!:rofl:

The insurance guy would be in charge of making that decision, but what the heck, I'll call him tomorrow. I've never bothered to get a quote on coverage for one based on others advice (low time pilot + Maule = $$$)

I'd be interested in a couple more brief details, like engine and prop times, and what is in the panel.

I really do appreciate the leads from everyone, they are cheering me up!
 
Dean said:
How about a Stinson 108-3 ? There are several of them for under 40K. There is a 180HP on floats listed at www.barnstormers.com for 55K.
Click to expand...

I've actually just started looking at them lately, based on a suggestion on the red board. Don't know a thing about 'em other than what I've read in the ads, but I'm trying to educate myself on the model. Based on reviews they seem to have a good rep.
 
alaskaflyer said:
I've actually just started looking at them lately, based on a suggestion on the red board. Don't know a thing about 'em other than what I've read in the ads, but I'm trying to educate myself on the model. Based on reviews they seem to have a good rep.
Click to expand...

Think of them as an old rag and tube aircraft, with a Franklin engine, or an expensive conversion. non standard instrument lay out, and they almost as difficult to get into, and out of as the maule.

But they are great flyers, with hydraulic dampened gear. watch what fabric systems they have, they are old enough to have any system.

N5660F has about 1000 TT at last annual, (I did) last fall (sept) it will need covers in a couple years or some one who will keep it sealed up by touching up and blemishs that will appear. dual terra nav and com radios with digital glide slope, ADF, transponder with mod C.

Don't let the low time fool you, this aircraft has compressions in the high 70s and is a good solid flyer, that lives on Blakely Is in the San Juans, and is the quick way off the Island, but the owner has a sail boat. need I say more.
 
NC19143 said:
Think of them as an old rag and tube aircraft, with a Franklin engine, or an expensive conversion. non standard instrument lay out, and they almost as difficult to get into, and out of as the maule.

But they are great flyers, with hydraulic dampened gear. watch what fabric systems they have, they are old enough to have any system.

N5660F has about 1000 TT at last annual, (I did) last fall (sept) it will need covers in a couple years or some one who will keep it sealed up by touching up and blemishs that will appear. dual terra nav and com radios with digital glide slope, ADF, transponder with mod C.

Don't let the low time fool you, this aircraft has compressions in the high 70s and is a good solid flyer, that lives on Blakely Is in the San Juans, and is the quick way off the Island, but the owner has a sail boat. need I say more.
Click to expand...

LOL! No you don't. They are almost as bad as airplanes.

Thanks Tom, I will get back to you, I need to see if the insurance bill will exceed the monthly loan payments :eek: and think about it a bit besides. I know you gave me a few leads on the red board a little while back when I first started looking and I appreciate your expertise.
 
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alaskaflyer said:
How long did it take you in your search for an aircraft to purchase? I've been actively looking for "my first" since December, and still no dice.
Click to expand...

About 2 weeks. I first looked at a straight tail polished 182, then the one I have now. Saw pictures of it. Flew down a couple weeks later had the prebuy done, put down a deposit, and picked it up the next month. Overall from start to finish, probably 5 weeks from the time I started looking, until I flew it home.

The thing is, I wasn't even really looking for a plane when I found it.
 
alaskaflyer said:
Thanks Tom, I will get back to you, I need to see if the insurance bill will exceed the monthly loan payments :eek: ...
Click to expand...

Well, are you sitting down? I'm glad I was!

$7,783.00 PER YEAR for a 1985 Maule worth the princely sum of $45K.

So, no, I guess the Maule wouldn't do the job :( One day maybe...until then back to the original plan.

Hmmm, interesting also, insurance for a '48 Stinson is 50% higher than the 170B.

If anyone sees a IFR capable 170B model out there, with engine times less than 900 hours, I'd sure be interested! Thanks for the leads so far!

Sigh.
 
alaskaflyer said:
Well, are you sitting down? I'm glad I was!

$7,783.00 PER YEAR for a 1985 Maule worth the princely sum of $45K..
Click to expand...
Does that tell you anything about accident rates on a Maule?
alaskaflyer said:
So, no, I guess the Maule wouldn't do the job :( One day maybe...until then back to the original plan.

Hmmm, interesting also, insurance for a '48 Stinson is 50% higher than the 170B. ..
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they have been around so long that you are paying for 50 year accident rate data base. And Besides, your in ALASKA. we know what happens to aircraft in the bush..try getting liability only.
alaskaflyer said:
If anyone sees a IFR capable 170B model out there, with engine times less than 900 hours, I'd sure be interested! Thanks for the leads so far!

Sigh.
Click to expand...
 
This might be the alternate to the 170


1977 TAYLORCRAFT F19, 1400 TTSN, Edo 1400 wheels, skis, fresh annual, extras! $42,500. WA/(509) 899-1310.
 
It only took me about 18 years to find the next plane after I sold my first one. The first one was owned by a friend of a friend and it took about a month to close the deal, then 5 years to get it in the condition I was happy with which was just before I sold it.

I'd been looking at the model I have now off and on for 4-5 years, then about 3 days to locate in Trade A Plane when the money became available. Another 3 months to close the deal. I'm thinking the one I have now will only take 3 years before I have it the way I want it. So I'll be in the market again in '09....

alaskaflyer said:
So, feeling frustrated today, I thought I'd throw this out there...

How long did it take you in your search for an aircraft to purchase? I've been actively looking for "my first" since December, and still no dice.

/Rant on/ I've bounced back and forth between models, reevaluated my mission needs about 200 times, calculated my budget almost as often... :rofl: Laid down half of a ASU twice now for an annual-based prebuy on different planes, each time finding unpleasant surprises I wasn't willing to live with. The rep at AVEMCO I'm dealing with is going to start charging me for his fax service ;) /rant off/

I've been looking for a nice Cessna 170B with a basic IFR panel, but can't seem to catch one. So I wrestle with settling for a 172, which would make my search easier and my insurance cheaper, but won't allow me to do what I would like to do up here about 33% of the time.
Click to expand...
 
What do you know about a 48 rag wing 170?

1948 CESSNA 170 • $29,500 • FOR SALE BY OWNER • 2870TT 500SMOH (Cont 0300, cyl in 70's) Annual due 3/06 (FRESH ANNUAL WITH SALE) Nice interior with older paint, ORIGINAL METAL WHEEL PANTS, digital flip-flop nav/com, remote ELT, mode-C transponder, color GPS, JPI fuel computer, CHT/EGT, 4 place stereo intercom, shoulder harnesses, spin-on oil filter. It's been a great plane, but a baby's on the way and the toys have to go! • Contact Jonathan T. Scott - located Jackson, MS USA • Telephone: 6019410633 • Posted March 20, 2006 •

It just hit the Classifieds at barnstormers.com/170 29k.

The 48's are the lightest of the 170 and only made one year, they made 712 of them with 3, 12 gallon tanks 2 in the right wing and one in the left, many have had the 4th tank installed in the left wing. Wings are fabric, so watch which system they have.

The 48s are lighter and faster than the " 49-51 A" or "52-57 B" but you can't do the steep stable approaches that the "B" 40 degree "Barndoor" flaps will give you, but if you learn to slip you can get the 48 into and OUT of smaller strips than the heavier slower "B".

N2623V was my 48 and it would show a steady 128 indicated at 2500 RPM leaned to best power. empty weight was 985# with a gross load at 2200#, most 48s are around 1100# empty.

Flying one is to prove you'll love it, and the one advertized looks pretty nice. at $29k would be a "Tom's Best buy" If you buy, I'll do the prebuy, and the check out for expenses, and the fun of it. (I'd deliver it too)
 
NC19143 said:
...- located Jackson, MS USA...
Click to expand...


If you want me to, I could run up and take some pictures....btw, the N# is N2561V
 
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Here is contact info for a man who may be able to put you into a IFR capable 170. Nice man and he knows the model.

Wil Bagshaw - CEO, Director of Operations
AIR SANTA BARBARA, Inc.
1745 Grand Avenue
Santa Barbara, CA 93103
Phone: (805) 898-9800
Fax: (805) 898-9802
Web: AIRSB.COM
Email: wb@airsb.com
 
NC19143 said:
What do you know about a 48 rag wing 170?

1948 CESSNA 170 • $29,500 • FOR SALE BY OWNER • 2870TT 500SMOH (Cont 0300, cyl in 70's) Annual due 3/06 (FRESH ANNUAL WITH SALE) Nice interior with older paint, ORIGINAL METAL WHEEL PANTS, digital flip-flop nav/com, remote ELT, mode-C transponder, color GPS, JPI fuel computer, CHT/EGT, 4 place stereo intercom, shoulder harnesses, spin-on oil filter. It's been a great plane, but a baby's on the way and the toys have to go! • Contact Jonathan T. Scott - located Jackson, MS USA • Telephone: 6019410633 • Posted March 20, 2006 •

It just hit the Classifieds at barnstormers.com/170 29k.

The 48's are the lightest of the 170 and only made one year, they made 712 of them with 3, 12 gallon tanks 2 in the right wing and one in the left, many have had the 4th tank installed in the left wing. Wings are fabric, so watch which system they have.

The 48s are lighter and faster than the " 49-51 A" or "52-57 B" but you can't do the steep stable approaches that the "B" 40 degree "Barndoor" flaps will give you, but if you learn to slip you can get the 48 into and OUT of smaller strips than the heavier slower "B".

N2623V was my 48 and it would show a steady 128 indicated at 2500 RPM leaned to best power. empty weight was 985# with a gross load at 2200#, most 48s are around 1100# empty.

Flying one is to prove you'll love it, and the one advertized looks pretty nice. at $29k would be a "Tom's Best buy" If you buy, I'll do the prebuy, and the check out for expenses, and the fun of it. (I'd deliver it too)
Click to expand...


Hmmm....looks promising. I'll call him. Heck, I might take you up on your offer too!

I've been looking for B models because of the flaps, but also BC of the rumor that the 53 and later models have improved cabin heating over the 48-52(?)For obvious reasons this could be a major factor for me up here!:yes: Do you have an opinion on if that is true?
 
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Steve said:
If you want me to, I could run up and take some pictures....btw, the N# is N2561V
Click to expand...

Thanks, but I called the guy and he is sending me some specific photos. Appreciate the offer. :yes:
 
Well, if Tom gets the ferry assignment I'd be happy to provide ground/air transport at this end, save the rental. My schedule is usually pretty flexible.

Hope it works out.

alaskaflyer said:
Thanks, but I called the guy and he is sending me some specific photos. Appreciate the offer. :yes:
Click to expand...
 
Steve said:
Well, if Tom gets the ferry assignment I'd be happy to provide ground/air transport at this end, save the rental. My schedule is usually pretty flexible.

Hope it works out.
Click to expand...

May take you up on that, I'm also looking at one in 'bama.

BTW How's President Firefly these days? ;)
 
Whatever it is he's against it! :rofl:

alaskaflyer said:
May take you up on that, I'm also looking at one in 'bama.

BTW How's President Firefly these days? ;)
Click to expand...
 
I don't ferry aircraft, that requires a Com/Pilot, I just reposition them for the owners.
 
alaskaflyer said:
How long did it take you in your search for an aircraft to purchase? I've been actively looking for "my first" since December, and still no dice.
Click to expand...

Casually looking for about 2 years followed by an 11 month long serious search.
 
You don't want to know how easy it was for me to find my airplane. It was the first one I looked at and lived only 90 miles away. It was exactly what I wanted and checked out in an intensive pre-buy inspection. I love it.

Judy
 
judypilot said:
It was the first one I looked at and lived only 90 miles away. It was exactly what I wanted and checked out in an intensive pre-buy inspection. I love it.
Click to expand...

Sometimes it was meant to be, glad you jumped.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Sometimes it was meant to be, glad you jumped.
Click to expand...

Bill,

You're right. For a little while I wondered if I hadn't jumped too soon. It seemed too easy. But then I didn't want to waste time just for the sake of appearances. And I was afraid I might lose it. But the main thing was, it fit my profile perfectly, so why quibble?

Judy
 
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