The Order of Things

[JMac1773]

Subtitle: What the Hell am I Doing?

Since I made my first post on here a few minutes ago I thought I would jump right in, say hello, and ask one of the impossible to answer questions.

Little background: My dad was a private pilot when I was a kid. Needless to say I've been looking skyward every since. It got in my blood. Deep.

Life, lack of money, etc. kept getting in the way of getting my PPL. Nothing new about that, I know. So now I'm almost 42 and I have a new-ish baby boy (future co-pilot) and an understanding and supportive wife now... so I figure it's time.

I've basically been around aviation my whole life. I understand the physics, the navigation (well, I'm getting there) etc. Suffice to say: I'm not coming at this from a total newbie perspective.

I've started on the Gleim ground school home study/online curriculum. I've been reading the "Private Pilot Handbook" by Machado and I'm waiting to read three other books after I finish that one. I've attended a meeting of a local flying club but have yet to join. I have yet to talk to one of their (very) qualified CFI's about arranging flight training. That is due in large part to the elephant in the room - money. Or the lack thereof. I don't have the time to take out a loan and go to a traditional ground school. I'm not a doctor who can afford a Mooney M20. I'm not an engineer who can buy his own Cessna 172. (I probably could never afford 150.) I'm not THAT guy. I'm a regular dude with a decent job but not a ton of disposable income. Capiche?

So here's my dilemma: Since I'm already studying ground school what would my logical next step be? I know I need to get the 3rd class medical out of the way fairly soon so I can sell all the books and ground school material in case I don't pass it. Here's what I'm thinking (in somewhat chronological order) and PLEASE feel free to chime in with your opinions.

Keep studying the ground school.
Get the 3rd class medical.
Find some money.
Study ground school.
Find some money.
Take a few flight lessons.
Study the ground school.
Take the written test.
Sell plasma.
Take a few more flight lessons.
Repeat flying lessons till done. Rinse. Air dry.

(Don't forget to hope the CFI I get will work with the the Gleim material.)

Anyway, what do you guys and gals think? (By the way, thanks for letting me ramble. I just have a lot on my mind. This seems like the best and most active board I've stumbled across. Happy to be here.)

 

[jesse]

Subtitle: What the Hell am I Doing?

Since I made my first post on here a few minutes ago I thought I would jump right in, say hello, and ask one of the impossible to answer questions.

Little background: My dad was a private pilot when I was a kid. Needless to say I've been looking skyward every since. It got in my blood. Deep.

Life, lack of money, etc. kept getting in the way of getting my PPL. Nothing new about that, I know. So now I'm almost 42 and I have a new-ish baby boy (future co-pilot) and an understanding and supportive wife now... so I figure it's time.

I've basically been around aviation my whole life. I understand the physics, the navigation (well, I'm getting there) etc. Suffice to say: I'm not coming at this from a total newbie perspective.

I've started on the Gleim ground school home study/online curriculum. I've been reading the "Private Pilot Handbook" by Machado and I'm waiting to read three other books after I finish that one. I've attended a meeting of a local flying club but have yet to join. I have yet to talk to one of their (very) qualified CFI's about arranging flight training. That is due in large part to the elephant in the room - money. Or the lack thereof. I don't have the time to take out a loan and go to a traditional ground school. I'm not a doctor who can afford a Mooney M20. I'm not an engineer who can buy his own Cessna 172. (I probably could never afford 150.) I'm not THAT guy. I'm a regular dude with a decent job but not a ton of disposable income. Capiche?

So here's my dilemma: Since I'm already studying ground school what would my logical next step be? I know I need to get the 3rd class medical out of the way fairly soon so I can sell all the books and ground school material in case I don't pass it. Here's what I'm thinking (in somewhat chronological order) and PLEASE feel free to chime in with your opinions.

Keep studying the ground school.
Get the 3rd class medical.
Find some money.
Study ground school.
Find some money.
Take a few flight lessons.
Study the ground school.
Take the written test.
Sell plasma.
Take a few more flight lessons.
Repeat flying lessons till done. Rinse. Air dry.

(Don't forget to hope the CFI I get will work with the the Gleim material.)

Anyway, what do you guys and gals think? (By the way, thanks for letting me ramble. I just have a lot on my mind. This seems like the best and most active board I've stumbled across. Happy to be here.)

Study some if you'd like. Get the medical to make sure you don't have problems. Take an intro flight to see if it's something you really want to do.

Don't start lessons until you have all the money to do the entire certificate plus more

You can take the written if you want early, keep in mind it's only valid for two years.

The most efficient and least costly way to get through your private pilot certificate is to fly as much as you can, at least three times a week, and do it quickly. If you don't have the funds to do that then wait until you do.

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

So here's my dilemma: Since I'm already studying ground school what would my logical next step be? I know I need to get the 3rd class medical out of the way fairly soon so I can sell all the books and ground school material in case I don't pass it. Here's what I'm thinking (in somewhat chronological order) and PLEASE feel free to chime in with your opinions.

Bzzzzzzt...

Do not ever attempt to get a 3rd class medical until you are already sure you will pass.

You may not think much of the sport pilot option, but there is a small chance that some medical reform of some type or another may happen in the future - why lock yourself out unnecessarily?

Poke around to find the lowest cost provider of flight training in the area and take the occasional lesson as you can afford. It will take more hours than a dedicated program, but if the intent is to fly, this can hardly be considered a bad thing, eh? The club you attended may or may not be the lowest cost.

What are you going to do with the ticket once you get it? What will your annual flying budget be? What can you rent? Can you afford the flying club? What about buying a $20K aircraft with a partner?

 

[JMac1773]

Study some if you'd like. Get the medical to make sure you don't have problems. Take an intro flight to see if it's something you really want to do.

Don't start lessons until you have all the money to do the entire certificate plus more

You can take the written if you want early, keep in mind it's only valid for two years.

The most efficient and least costly way to get through your private pilot certificate is to fly as much as you can, at least three times a week, and do it quickly. If you don't have the funds to do that then wait until you do.

The intro flight, in my opinion, is a waste of money that I could use for training. I KNOW I want to do it. That's not the question.

Good advice on the written. I had forgotten that. The online portion of my ground school is only valid for 1 year so it would spur me on to complete it and get the test out of the way.

The "not starting lessons till you have all the money" thing is beautiful in theory, but it's not real-world applicable to some folks. Actually, I was going to do that (or a large chunk of it) but my Suburban decided it needed over $5K in engine repair just before Christmas. Goodbye most of my savings.

Again, I'm not a doctor, lawyer etc. From what you're telling me, only the fairly well off can fly. There HAS to be a way to plug along and make it work. I've never been more determined about something in my life. (I wish I had this determination when I was in college... LOL)

 

[Henning]

Plasma and sperm, donate as often as you can. You should be able to collect the money in a year or two.

 

[FlyingIsGood]

As has already been said, save up a good chunk before even getting started. Well, maybe take an Intro/Discovery flight to verify that it's your game. After that, save money. Trying to piecemeal your ticket will drag it out over a long period of time, likely costing you more time/money.

I'm not sure about saving up the entire bill (that will depend on how many hours you need to get your ticket), but at least save up a decent chunk. Start putting some aside specifically for training, keep studying, and try to get involved.

I say all this from the perspective of someone who already has a ticket, but has been away for some time, and needs to get current. I've started setting a few bucks aside to build up enough of a fund to pay for updated materials and several hours of rental/instruction. Although I won't need nearly as much as you will, it's the only way I'd feel confident in doing this efficiently. I joined this group, and am trying to get involved - if only to help refresh me on things which I may have become rusty at.

Anyhow, good luck, keep at it, and you'll end up flying before you know it!

 

[JMac1773]

Bzzzzzzt...

Do not ever attempt to get a 3rd class medical until you are already sure you will pass.

You may not think much of the sport pilot option, but there is a small chance that some medical reform of some type or another may happen in the future - why lock yourself out unnecessarily?

Poke around to find the lowest cost provider of flight training in the area and take the occasional lesson as you can afford. It will take more hours than a dedicated program, but if the intent is to fly, this can hardly be considered a bad thing, eh? The club you attended may or may not be the lowest cost.

What are you going to do with the ticket once you get it? What will your annual flying budget be? What can you rent? Can you afford the flying club? What about buying a $20K aircraft with a partner?

Oh I'm sure I'll pass the 3rd class. There's just a small issue with some ear surgery a few years ago but I read you only need one good ear to fly, right?

I've looked at the sport pilot option but it's not for me. I want to eventually take my family on outings and the "only one person rule" just doesn't fly with me. (Pardon the pun.) I thought about doing that but then I'd get the aviation bug even more and want to fly beyond the capabilities of LSA. Then I'd have to spend money to get the PPL. I might as well do the PPL and get what I want.

The club meeting I went to does have the lowest prices I've found in the metroplex: From monthly fees to aircraft rental to CFI cost. And I agree... any time spent flying, in my opinion, can't be bad. More frequent flying would be great - but like I said above - the real world steps in and laughs at your plans.

After I get my ticket... not sure. I'm too dang old to make a career of it. I'll probably stay in the club, rent their planes and go on little jaunts here and there as I can afford it. The club membership is something like $45 a month so it's not unreasonable at all. The buying with a partner thing is an idea. I'll just have to see how many friends I make in the aviation community.

 

[FlyingIsGood]

The intro flight, in my opinion, is a waste of money that I could use for training. I KNOW I want to do it. That's not the question.

The intro flight IS your first training lesson. It's logged as dual!

 

[momalley]

Start selling anything and everything you can live without on Ebay and Craigslist.

Having all the money upfront is definitely the best way to go about it.

 

[jesse]

The intro flight, in my opinion, is a waste of money that I could use for training. I KNOW I want to do it. That's not the question.

Good advice on the written. I had forgotten that. The online portion of my ground school is only valid for 1 year so it would spur me on to complete it and get the test out of the way.

The "not starting lessons till you have all the money" thing is beautiful in theory, but it's not real-world applicable to some folks. Actually, I was going to do that (or a large chunk of it) but my Suburban decided it needed over $5K in engine repair just before Christmas. Goodbye most of my savings.

Again, I'm not a doctor, lawyer etc. From what you're telling me, only the fairly well off can fly. There HAS to be a way to plug along and make it work. I've never been more determined about something in my life. (I wish I had this determination when I was in college... LOL)

Very few of my students are "well off". If you can afford to pay for it one lesson at a time without saving up then you can afford to save up. You will SAVE MONEY by having the money to start with and doing it as quickly as possible.

Nothing will slow your training and cost you more money then stopping in the middle because you ran out.

Even worse are the people who choose to pay for their flight training on credit cards. I always discourage that as much as I can, because everyone I've seen do that, finishes their training and then has NO MONEY to fly with. They spend years trying to pay off their debt (plus ridiculous interest) and get no utility from their certificate and their skills rapidly degrade.

The most important time in flying is the first few hundred hours after you get your private. You'll learn the most in those hours and flying will get engrained in you to where stopping later and starting again is no problem.

 

[JMac1773]

The intro flight IS your first training lesson. It's logged as dual!

Oh. See? You learn something new every day. I always thought it was just a "try before you buy" sort of thing. I really didn't know it was time you could log.

That will make my wife happy. She bought me a personalized log book for Christmas. Be nice to get some use out of it. :wink2:

 

[FlyingIsGood]

Oh. See? You learn something new every day. I always thought it was just a "try before you buy" sort of thing. I really didn't know it was time you could log.

That will make my wife happy. She bought me a personalized log book for Christmas. Be nice to get some use out of it. :wink2:

Personalized Log Book? The extra money spent on that could've gone to more flight time!!!

Also, like was added... start offloading whatever toys/junk/misc items you don't need via Craigslist/eBay, and dump that into your flying fund.

You'll eventually weigh a lot of purchase decisions by how much they cut into your flying fund. On some days, beans and rice may sound better than that ribeye. :wink2:

 

[petrolero]

The "not starting lessons till you have all the money" thing is beautiful in theory, but it's not real-world applicable to some folks. Actually, I was going to do that (or a large chunk of it) but my Suburban decided it needed over $5K in engine repair just before Christmas. Goodbye most of my savings.

I agree. Lots of people recommend getting all the money before starting because, and here I agree, it is the most cost-efficient way of getting a PPL. But I disagree that it just *MUST* be done that way. Baloney.

There is nothing at all wrong with piecemeal training. Fact is, in many cases, it's the only way to get 'er done. This is how I did my PPL training some 20 years ago. It took me over a year to finish my ppl. Whatever. I had a life and not much money. I flew when I could. And I didn't a) die, or b) break the bank.

Did my instructor whack me on the head with a checklist for forgetting things he'd already gone over? Yep. But a) not often and b) so what? And it only took me 52 or so hours to get it done anyway. There are people who do the training non-stop and take longer.

If you prep for each lesson and apply yourself then doing it piecemeal is fine.

You know your situation. If you can swing some flying, get after it. Don't listen to the naysayers.

Best of luck!

 

[JMac1773]

Very few of my students are "well off". If you can afford to pay for it one lesson at a time without saving up then you can afford to save up. You will SAVE MONEY by having the money to start with and doing it as quickly as possible.

Nothing will slow your training and cost you more money then stopping in the middle because you ran out.

Even worse are the people who choose to pay for their flight training on credit cards. I always discourage that as much as I can, because everyone I've seen do that, finishes their training and then has NO MONEY to fly with. They spend years trying to pay off their debt (plus ridiculous interest) and get no utility from their certificate and their skills rapidly degrade.

The most important time in flying is the first few hundred hours after you get your private. You'll learn the most in those hours and flying will get engrained in you to where stopping later and starting again is no problem.

Trust me. No credit cards will be used in the making of this pilot.

So would you consider flying lessons three times a month as too slow? Four? The three times a week thing is out. Definitely. Until I can save up some more which might take awhile. By the time I save up again my test prep materials might be out of date. LOL!

I greatly appreciate your input. I hope you don't think I'm being a pain by rebutting the advice you're offering me. I just want this really bad and if my truck hadn't needed those repairs I could have easily started, flew a bunch and saved up the remainder while I was taking lessons. (I know.. every guy has a sob story...)

I just don't want to let myself and my family down because they've been so supportive.

 

[JMac1773]

Personalized Log Book? The extra money spent on that could've gone to more flight time!!!

Also, like was added... start offloading whatever toys/junk/misc items you don't need via Craigslist/eBay, and dump that into your flying fund.


You'll eventually weigh a lot of purchase decisions by how much they cut into your flying fund. On some days, beans and rice may sound better than that ribeye. :wink2:

HA! Trust me.... she chipped in with some cash for the flying fund. And I've already started thinking like that. "What crap can I sell.....?" LOL!

 

[JMac1773]

I agree. Lots of people recommend getting all the money before starting because, and here I agree, it is the most cost-efficient way of getting a PPL. But I disagree that it just *MUST* be done that way. Baloney.

There is nothing at all wrong with piecemeal training. Fact is, in many cases, it's the only way to get 'er done. This is how I did my PPL training some 20 years ago. It took me over a year to finish my ppl. Whatever. I had a life and not much money. I flew when I could. And I didn't a) die, or b) break the bank.

Did my instructor whack me on the head with a checklist for forgetting things he'd already gone over? Yep. But a) not often and b) so what? And it only took me 52 or so hours to get it done anyway. There are people who do the training non-stop and take longer.

If you prep for each lesson and apply yourself then doing it piecemeal is fine.

You know your situation. If you can swing some flying, get after it. Don't listen to the naysayers.

Best of luck!

Thanks! This is what I'm talking about! (Obviously I need some encouragement... LOL)

 

[Henning]

Personalized Log Book? The extra money spent on that could've gone to more flight time!!!

Also, like was added... start offloading whatever toys/junk/misc items you don't need via Craigslist/eBay, and dump that into your flying fund.

You'll eventually weigh a lot of purchase decisions by how much they cut into your flying fund. On some days, beans and rice may sound better than that ribeye. :wink2:

Used to be they came with one of those gold rub off foils that you personalized your logbook with yourself.

 

[jesse]

Trust me. No credit cards will be used in the making of this pilot.

So would you consider flying lessons three times a month as too slow? Four? The three times a week thing is out. Definitely. Until I can save up some more which might take awhile. By the time I save up again my test prep materials might be out of date. LOL!

I greatly appreciate your input. I hope you don't think I'm being a pain by rebutting the advice you're offering me. I just want this really bad and if my truck hadn't needed those repairs I could have easily started, flew a bunch and saved up the remainder while I was taking lessons. (I know.. every guy has a sob story...)

I just don't want to let myself and my family down because they've been so supportive.

It can definitely be done three times a month there are just a lot of factors. Some people do fine like that and others forget so much between lessons that you spend so much time retraining.

Also remember that many scheduled lessons will be cancelled: you'll be sick, instructor will be sick, weather will be bad, or airplane will be broke. I've had people that can schedule three lessons a month but if one or two got cancelled they wouldn't be able to reschedule it to happen that month and would just wait until the next one. If that's how it's handled it'll take nearly forever to get done.

Figure probably a year and a half at three times a month if you can be flexible with rescheduling and if the instructor can be.

When I learned to fly I did it pay as you go, I made $10/hr, the airplane cost $65/hr and the instructor was $25/hr. I scheduled a lesson every week. Each time I got paid I IMMEDIATELY went to the ATM and pulled my flying money from the bank and put it into an envelope. If lessons were cancelled no problem my envelope just got thicker and I could schedule more. Whenever I came across spare money of any kind I stuck it into that envelope as well. It took me about 7 months.

 

[brcase]

In addition to what has been suggested. Go spend a good portion of your weekends visiting airports in you areas, smaller ones are probably better. Just hang around and watch.

See if there are any glider clubs in your area might be a way to take more time but spend less money on learning to fly.

Ask if you can walk around the airport and look at airplanes and perhaps meet more pilots, you might have to have someone go with you as a guide depending on the size of the airport.
Talk to as many pilots as you can and ask How would you recommend a pilot on a budget start training...
You might find some clubs or partnerships that aren't that publicly advertised.
You might find some part time independent instructors that don't charge as much as the full time instructors...

you don't necessarily need all the money for training up front but you do probably need a minimum of about $400-$500 per month to spend on it to progress at any rate at all. That would be flying about once per week and will take you a year to a year and a half to likely get your rating.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL

 

[JMac1773]

It can definitely be done three times a month there are just a lot of factors. Some people do fine like that and others forget so much between lessons that you spend so much time retraining.

Also remember that many scheduled lessons will be cancelled: you'll be sick, instructor will be sick, weather will be bad, or airplane will be broke. I've had people that can schedule three lessons a month but if one or two got cancelled they wouldn't be able to reschedule it to happen that month and would just wait until the next one. If that's how it's handled it'll take nearly forever to get done.

Figure probably a year and a half at three times a month if you can be flexible with rescheduling and if the instructor can be.

When I learned to fly I did it pay as you go, I made $10/hr, the airplane cost $65/hr and the instructor was $25/hr. I scheduled a lesson every week. Each time I got paid I IMMEDIATELY went to the ATM and pulled my flying money from the bank and put it into an envelope. If lessons were cancelled no problem my envelope just got thicker and I could schedule more. Whenever I came across spare money of any kind I stuck it into that envelope as well. It took me about 7 months.

Yep. Weather. Especially here is Texas.

Good advice on the envelope theory. I'm doing that with a special savings account. Any spare money goes in there and (barring a catastrophe) it's not getting touched until I pay for lessons. I was going to do that with a 401k loan (you know, you get more in there when you pay it back) but that and more went to the stupid engine on my stupid truck. LOL!

And I'm NOT going to forget ANYthing between lessons. Wait... how do you figure the crosswind component again?

Thanks again for the advice. I greatly appreciate it.

 

[Henning]

You can get enough for all your ratings and a cheap plane for a kidney or a piece of your liver.

 

[jesse]

Yep. Weather. Especially here is Texas.

Good advice on the envelope theory. I'm doing that with a special savings account. Any spare money goes in there and (barring a catastrophe) it's not getting touched until I pay for lessons. I was going to do that with a 401k loan (you know, you get more in there when you pay it back) but that and more went to the stupid engine on my stupid truck. LOL!

And I'm NOT going to forget ANYthing between lessons. Wait... how do you figure the crosswind component again?

Thanks again for the advice. I greatly appreciate it.

The more you think about flying, the faster you'll get done. I can tell pretty damn quick with students as to if they'll ever finish. You have students that show up, expect to just take a lesson once a week, and they'll oneday magically be a pilot and put absolutely NO EFFORT towards it at all other than that one lesson. Basically it's like going to a personal trainer at a gym for them. Then you have other students that think about it constantly, text message me questions at all hours, and spend more time working on their dream at home then they do with me at the airport. They get done quickly and turn into great pilots.

 

[JMac1773]

You can get enough for all your ratings and a cheap plane for a kidney or a piece of your liver.

I'm afraid the liver might have been slightly damaged in college...

 

[JMac1773]

The more you think about flying, the faster you'll get done. I can tell pretty damn quick with students as to if they'll ever finish. You have students that show up, expect to just take a lesson once a week, and they'll oneday magically be a pilot and put absolutely NO EFFORT towards it at all other than that one lesson. Basically it's like going to a personal trainer at a gym for them. Then you have other students that think about it constantly, text message me questions at all hours, and spend more time working on their dream at home then they do with me at the airport. They get done quickly and turn into great pilots.

I definitely fall into the latter category. I remember watching my dad study his flying material when I was a kid so I definitely have his study habits. I'm a voracious reader - especially now. I do a lot of "book flying" and I know I've got to have several hundred hours on Microsoft Flight Simulator. I started on it when it was just lines on the screen. No fancy graphics. I'd probably have my ATP ticket by now if those were "real" hours. LOL!

 

[MAKG1]

Oh. See? You learn something new every day. I always thought it was just a "try before you buy" sort of thing. I really didn't know it was time you could log.

That will make my wife happy. She bought me a personalized log book for Christmas. Be nice to get some use out of it. :wink2:

Well, it is a try before you buy thing.

Not really to decide if you like flying. You know that. So do most people. It's to decide if you like the instructor.

Many will treat it like a sightseeing trip. Make it clear that's not what you want. If they don't listen, you know they aren't worth your time (but I suspect just about anyone will listen).

 

[James331]

Yep, go on a discovery flight.

Pre check yourself for the medical and ask around and find a good AME, there are good ones and bad ones.

If money is tight, consider getting your PPL in a glider, then doing a single engine add on when ya have money.

It'll save money and make you a better pilot.

http://www.ssa.org/WhereToFly

 

[Banjo33]

I would normally discourage using a credit card too; however, I've seen one case where it actually worked great.

I have a young Marine that wanted to take flying lessons, but obviously had very little discretionary income. He was discouraged from using a CC, but his knowledge exam was less than a year out from expiring and he was chomping at the bit to start, so he jumped on it. He flew very frequently and hammered through the check ride quickly. Once complete, he knocked out a few personal flights to take family and friends flying and then quit cold turkey. In the approximately 6 months he took away from flying, he was able to secure a second job and pay off the credit card bill. After two or three flights with a CFI, he'll get re-signed off to rent the local planes (PPL never expires!). He's already trying to book me to begin his instrument training using a similar method!

This Marine is an exceptional case though. He's not married/no children, very disciplined, and very goal oriented (but he's also young). He'll finish his Masters Degree this year, has been conducting an internship with the local airport, and was selected from hundreds of applicants to participate in a study abroad program in Indonesia this Spring for the summer.

 

[pilottangocharlie]

Hang around folks that fly. Pick up rides when you can. I did it for quite some time when introduced to flying.

I am local. I'm no CFI (yet), but enjoy chatting about flying and helping new folks learn the ropes. I would be glad to take you on some flights and help out. If you want to get together shoot me a PM.

 

[JOhnH]

You know your situation. If you can swing some flying, get after it. Don't listen to the naysayers.

Best of luck!

I would hardly consider someone like Jesse a naysayer. He has an excellent point and he has a lot of perspective from his position as a CFI. I wish I could find that link to a published article about Jesse and a little motorcycle trip he took.

I'm not going to beat this to death, but a lot of people with little money are in that position because of bad, or less than optimal financial decisions. Odds are that "pay as you go" will cost more than saving the money up front. If he can pay as he goes, he can put that money in the bank instead and when he finishes the training, he will be better off financially than if he strings it out and takes longer and pays more.

Regardless of any of our opinions, the OP has to figure out what is best for him. But unless he wants to claim poverty his whole life, he needs to start considering his financial decisions more carefully.

 

[JMac1773]

I would hardly consider someone like Jesse a naysayer. He has an excellent point and he has a lot of perspective from his position as a CFI. I wish I could find that link to a published article about Jesse and a little motorcycle trip he took.

I'm not going to beat this to death, but a lot of people with little money are in that position because of bad, or less than optimal financial decisions. Odds are that "pay as you go" will cost more than saving the money up front. If he can pay as he goes, he can put that money in the bank instead and when he finishes the training, he will be better off financially than if he strings it out and takes longer and pays more.

Regardless of any of our opinions, the OP has to figure out what is best for him. But unless he wants to claim poverty his whole life, he needs to start considering his financial decisions more carefully.

Well that we REALLY helpful. Thanks for basically calling me a low-life, poor decision making scum. Sorry I'm not financially blessed like you. (So much for pilots wanting to help the new guys, huh?)

 

[petrolero]

I would hardly consider someone like Jesse a naysayer. He has an excellent point and he has a lot of perspective from his position as a CFI. I wish I could find that link to a published article about Jesse and a little motorcycle trip he took.

I'm not going to beat this to death, but a lot of people with little money are in that position because of bad, or less than optimal financial decisions. Odds are that "pay as you go" will cost more than saving the money up front. If he can pay as he goes, he can put that money in the bank instead and when he finishes the training, he will be better off financially than if he strings it out and takes longer and pays more.

Regardless of any of our opinions, the OP has to figure out what is best for him. But unless he wants to claim poverty his whole life, he needs to start considering his financial decisions more carefully.

...and yet you did beat it to death.

I didn't call Jesse a naysayer and I didn't question is credentials or his motorcycle skills... whatever that digression has to do with it.

And if you'll reread my post, I didn't even disagree with Jesse on the fact that doing the training in one chunk is more cost effective.

I only disagreed that it must be done that way. And Jesse did put that in big bold letters, implying that he thinks that is super duper important.

Well my PPL is testament to the fact that it ain't.

 

[jesse]

...and yet you did beat it to death.

I didn't call Jesse a naysayer and I didn't question is credentials or his motorcycle skills... whatever that digression has to do with it.

And if you'll reread my post, I didn't even disagree with Jesse on the fact that doing the training in one chunk is more cost effective.

I only disagreed that it must be done that way. And Jesse did put that in big bold letters, implying that he thinks that is super duper important.

Well my PPL is testament to the fact that it ain't.

Can certainly agree to disagree and it can be paid for in many different ways. Ultimately the success rate I see is much lower for those that don't have the money to do it upfront, so as a result, I strongly encourage people to save until they do.

At the end of the day how people choose to pay for it is up to them. I don't really care. I just offer the best advice I can when someone asks me based on my observations of what works most of the time and what doesn't work most of the time.

 

[petrolero]

Can certainly agree to disagree and it can be paid for in many different ways. Ultimately the success rate I see is much lower for those that don't have the money to do it upfront, so as a result, I strongly encourage people to save until they do.

At the end of the day how people choose to pay for it is up to them. I don't really care. I just offer the best advice I can when someone asks me based on my observations of what works most of the time and what doesn't work most of the time.

And yet I don't disagree.

But it certainly is doable, and safely, piecemeal. Many pilots have done so.

In fact, I've done it both ways as I did my IR in one chunk. There was minimal back tracking and I finished spot on at 40 hours. So yes, it is better in a lot of ways to do it in one chunk (especially the IR). But can you do it little-by-little? Yep.

 

[sixpacker]

To the OP, I started learning to fly at a similar age to you. In my case it was within a few weeks of turning 40 with three young kids at home. My biggest issue was a lack of time and also of course concern on the cost. My wife was less supportive than yours sounds so count yourself lucky because that was probably half the battle for me trying to find time between work and home without ****ing my boss and wife off. I usually only managed to fly once a week. Sometimes I managed to do two times a week and I also went a couple of times when I couldn't fly for several weeks at a time. I ended up taking a little over a year to get my PPL and about 75 hours. If I'd instead done it more regularly I am sure I could have done it in less time and at less expense. However, in my case, it just simply wasn't an option. So I'd say it is possible to do it on a longer time frame but budget on more hours being needed than you may think right now.

 

[Henning]

There are multiple ways one can achieve anything. However there is typically one way that produces the best result most efficiently. In flight training you're flying 4 times a week or more to do that. It really is best if you can bank the money and time to have at it. That's your best chance for doing it in 40 hours. I notice that once a week/twice a month, take three months off... people are the 100hr to PPL people, once and twice a week people with a week or two off here and there are the people who fall into the 60-80hr average.

 

[docmirror]

Buy this http://www.barnstormers.com/classified_869693_1946+Taylorcraft+BC12-D.html

Find the crusty old CFI near you. Finish your Gleim course and take your written.

Don't get insurance, don't bother with 100LL, fly as often as you can and when you get your license, sell the plane, and rent.

You will be ahead, even if you finance the plane for a short time.

 

[JOhnH]

Well that we REALLY helpful. Thanks for basically calling me a low-life, poor decision making scum. Sorry I'm not financially blessed like you. (So much for pilots wanting to help the new guys, huh?)

I'm sorry that I worded that poorly. I didn't mean it that way. That is basically the same speech I gave to a couple of my family members whom I love very much.

 

[mcmanigle]

I think people are coming at this with different goals in mind, and different value judgements placed on being a student pilot.

Let's say (hypothetically) that you're making $3000 per year that you can spend on flying, and a plane rental costs you $90/hour and an instructor costs $30/hour.

You could open a bank account (or envelope), start putting your flying income into it now (Jan 2015), and then in September 2016, fly three or four times a week, spend $5000 (figure 30 hours dual, 15 hours solo because you're being so efficient) and get your PPL right around January 2017 with $1000 in the bank for your first couple of flights with your family.

Or, you could start flying now and take a lesson about once every two weeks (missing here and there for weather, maintenance, etc.). Maybe, given this "inefficiency", it takes you 25 hours before you solo, so that happens around Jan 2016. Let's say at that point you do an hour dual and 1.5 solo each month (or so). By January 2017, you've got 37 hours dual and 18 hours solo, and are probably about ready for your PPL check ride.

Personally, I think either of these methods is valid. Sure, the first way you've spent $1000 less, so it's more "efficient" if ratings/money is your efficiency measure. But the second way isn't putting you into debt (I agree that's almost never a good option), and you can still fly with your family with the next year's $3000. Plus, you've been able to enjoy being a pilot (even if a student pilot) for a year and a half longer. The second way might be better if you have family or work obligations that mean it will never be convenient to take a couple of months and fly 4 times a week.

Now, maybe stretching it out this much will cause more than the 10 hours of inefficiency I've assumed here, but you can't know that in advance, and "chair flying" etc can go a long way to help. And I'm not including other costs, like books or medical or whatnot, because I'm sure you can factor those in yourself.

But you seem like the kind of guy who can figure out his own income and costs and see how much you can afford to be flying. Yes, there are tricky ways to do it like buying a cheap plane on credit, but I wouldn't do that unless you know you're good at those kinds of tricks; it seems like more bother than it's worth to me.

Also, and especially if you're going the long route, why be in a rush for ground school and the written? Most instructors I know are happy to sign you off to take the written once you demonstrate (usually through a few free practice tests) that you will score at least a 90% or so. If you have two years to do that, just read the FAA's material and don't bother spending money on anything. Gleim makes sense if you need to power through some ratings, but it sounds like you study and retain information well and have the spare time to read the books and go to exams4pilots to take free tests.

Getting medical clearance early isn't a bad idea as you've mentioned about sunk costs if it turns out you can't be certified. But if you're taking the "long road" and might not solo for a year, maybe even hold off on that, especially if you're a) quite sure you'll be certified, and b) wouldn't drop the whole thing if it turns out sport pilot is your only option. I'll (rightly) get some push back on this one.

 

[txflyer]

I don't know a lot about it, but is a sport pilot rating out of the question? I'd look into that and just get to flying somehow. You don't need a medical and I would think it's half the cost.

Or, rob a bank and take those proceeds and buy a bank so you can really rob it.

Good luck OP. Flying nowadays is uber expensive if anyone hasn't slapped you upside the head with that yet. My PPL cost me ~$700.00 back in the stone age.

 

[cgrab]

There's a cost to learn and a cost to re-learn. Flying often cuts down on the re-learn cost. Also, see if your school sells block time at a discount. If you can afford to pay for ten hours you may get a couple for free. Also, find the cheapest 150 and CFI you can. Don't worry about learning how to use a GPS or glass cockpit. You are there to manipulate the controls and can learn the other stuff when you transition to a 172 after you get your ticket. That's why it's called a license to learn.