The "newest" childhood disorder - daydreaming

Jeff Oslick

Jeff Oslick

Final Approach
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Jeff Oslick
The latest pill-popping fad, brought to you by big pharma... Link

We are apparently desperate to engineer creativity out of our children.
 
sluggish cognitive tempo
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The two dollar phrase for a slow learner. Some kid are naturally going to trailbehind the pack. Why do these 'experts" think everything is curable by taking a "magic" pill? :dunno:
 
They know that nothing good will come of it, except to line their own pockets. Which is all they really care about anyway.
 
It's all about the money. The new norm is if you think something isn't right ,there has to be a pill for it.
 
Norman said:
The two dollar phrase for a slow learner. Some kid are naturally going to trailbehind the pack. Why do these 'experts" think everything is curable by taking a "magic" pill? :dunno:
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$$$$$
 
If the blind and stupid psychologists can get together and invent ADHD, and get all kinds of grant money for "studies," why not invent another disorder and keep swilling from the public trough?

Give a few lazy, stupid school administrators the possibility of getting federal money for all those "slow" daydreamers and there comes another gravy train.
 
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If a child is out of step with the "accepted" standard behavior of how children should act or behave, in other words, showing a tendency of not being a team player, it is entirely possible that they might have an "alpha" personality. This is completely intolerable in today's modern society and should be addressed by any means available, drugs being the most likely option, especially if the child is a male.

We can not have free thinkers or children showing any signs of leadership quality if we ever expect to reach our ultimate goal of a social utopia.

Myself, I can visualize a wonderful future for our nation, where everyone dresses, and acts the same. We all make the exact same amount of money, are transported on public transportation only, and nobody lives on top of the hill unless we all do. A world where we all agree with each other on all matters.

Prescription medications will play an important part for us in reaching our perfect future.

G-d Bless Eli Lilly Corporation and others like them for helping to save America.

-John
 
Anything to make the hardworking teachers jobs easier.:rolleyes2:
 
Can't have children thinking for themselves so say the lefties. Maybe this pill helps understand Common Core math too - I sure as hell don't.
 
Imagine if drugs and "conditions" like this existed back when Thomas Edison and Albert Einstein were children.
 
In a strange twist, I find myself siding with some religious groups out there... if you can't afford private, home-school your kids. At least these made-up "diagnoses" won't be forced upon them together with the inevitable ingested chemicals.
 
Florida Cracker said:
If the blind and stupid psychologists can get together and invent ADHD, and get all kinds of grant money for "studies," why not invent another disorder adn keep swilling from the public trough?
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ADHD is very real. It is not at all something invented or made up. It is, unfortunately, an issue that has become way over-diagnosed and far too often used as a convenient excuse for behavioral problems.
 
Fearless Tower said:
ADHD is very real. It is not at all something invented or made up. It is, unfortunately, an issue that has become way over-diagnosed and far too often used as a convenient excuse for behavioral problems.
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This guy disagrees with you.

I am not really qualified to seriously discuss this matter, but my mom is world-reknown in this field. I worked in her clinic for years, typing all the diagnoses she made into the computerized system I set up for her (when the idea of doing this was quite bleeding edge), so I have at least a bit of further learned insight on the topic. She sure thinks it exists, but similar to the good doctor in the linked article, her own conclusions over time were that it was never "its own thing". Her books also touch on the matter, without directly attacking it. And she most certainly agrees that it is way, way, waaaaay over-diagnosed in kids, and burned many bridges with the "official" institutions of psychology in the country I grew up in because she stood up to them on this issue when it became a real fad.
 
onwards said:
This guy disagrees with you.
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Yes and no. The sensational headline says it doesn't exist, but what he really seems to be arguing is that the medical world has morphed the definition of ADHD to apply to a much larger group that it really should. I think there is likely some truth to that.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Anything to make the hardworking teachers jobs easier.:rolleyes2:
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I've been down this road on this web site already. I am a teacher in real life. I do work hard. I do the work you all in who are not teachers benefit from. I help create a better tomorrow, I don't help someone, either myself or my boss, get richer like many of you in bussiness do, thus by your chosen profession,contributing very little to the greater good, other than obviously blaming everyone involved in education for the failures of society-- a tremendous contribution at that.

So if you want to throw insults around so liberally I'd caution you to think twice.

For the countless time, at least if you read the other thread where this came up, teachers don't medicate children. Only parents do. Also for the record, I can't stand these pills or these kinds of "quick fixes" but trust me when I say, some kids do struggle with attention and benefit from medication.
 
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It never ceases to amaze me how pilots think they know everything about everything.

:rolleyes:
 
jspilot said:
For the countless time, at least if you read the other thread where this came up, teachers don't medicate children. Only parents do.
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My experience from the perspective of the physician involved in this issue is that it is driven by public school teachers and public school counselors. Certainly in lower income/ lower education environments, the parents are just a pawn being pushed around by the school buerocracy. Get little jonny medicated or else....

The disease is real. Too few people are qualified to make the diagnosis. Many children are diagnosed to address behavioral issues other than the true neurological condition.
 
weilke said:
My experience from the perspective of the physician involved in this issue is that it is driven by public school teachers and public school counselors. Certainly in lower income/ lower education environments, the parents are just a pawn being pushed around by the school buerocracy. Get little jonny medicated or else....

The disease is real. Too few people are qualified to make the diagnosis. Many children are diagnosed to address behavioral issues other than the true neurological condition.
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I don't teach in a public school I teach in a private school. Yet, of course the schools drive the process forward. Who else could? Students are only students in schools and teachers see the impact of the struggle to focus everyday. It's unfair to blame any school for going to a paret and saying, " hey you may want to take your kid to a doctor to have them examined to see if something is in need of some help." A parent is well within their rights to say "nope." The teacher is left to deal with the immediate ramifications of te parents decision but that is part of the job.

You mention schools saying " or else." Or else what? The school still has to educate the student. In public schools they can't ask them to leave. Perhaps the school is suggesting, " or else your student will continue to struggle to learn, continue to suffer from poor self esteem and continue to have a confrontational relationship with you as their parent."( all of these things are far to common for students who struggle in school.)

Medicating a student is not a decision anyone takes lightly. I'm sure everyone realizes that.
 
jspilot said:
I've been down this road on this web site already. I am a teacher in real life. I do work hard. I do the work you all in who are not teachers benefit from. I help create a better tomorrow, I don't help someone, either myself or my boss, get richer like many of you in bussiness do, thus by your chosen profession,contributing very little to the greater good, other than obviously blaming everyone involved in education for the failures of society-- a tremendous contribution at that.

So if you want to throw insults around so liberally I'd caution you to think twice.

For the countless time, at least if you read the other thread where this came up, teachers don't medicate children. Only parents do. Also for the record, I can't stand these pills or these kinds of "quick fixes" but trust me when I say, some kids do struggle with attention and benefit from medication.
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"some kids do struggle with attention and benefit from medication."

Does the kid decide, or do teachers "recommend" that the kids parents decide?

I was, and still am, a reading fanatic. I would read all of my textbooks from cover to cover the first few weeks of the school year. I spent the rest of the year bored to tears. I countered that by screwing around in class.

I also loved fighting for some reason, especially in middle school. They kicked me out of high school mostly for fighting after just three months there. I had a C-B grade average. I went to work in the restaurant industry for a while, then joined the paratroopers, where I became a sergeant when I was nineteen, mostly due to my combative nature, and my love for reading field manuals.

I made it to the upper echelons in the corporate world after the army, then started my own business that kept me going for 35 years until I sold it and retired. My house is paid for, I paid cash for my airplane, the same with my car, I have no credit card debt, or any other debt.

I attribute all of that not to my ninth grade education, but more to my self confidence and my determination.

Do you think my life would have been better had my teachers insisted I be drugged?

-John
 
In 35 years as the only doc at a wide spot in the highway - and the school right across the road, I had uncountable numbers of children that were brought in with the edict "put him ritalin" (a few girls too)
Luckily 25 miles away was a great child behavioral clinic. I made every child go there for the team workup before I would prescribe anything.
Probably 25% came back with the suggestion that I try a stimulant and send him back in 6 months for a fresh evaluation.
75% came back as only needs a structured learning environment.
A couple came back with a hand written note that was not made part of the medical record that this was a nasty little kid and would likely grow up to be a nasty big one. They were right both times.
There is a place for mind altering drugs - but sure as heck not at the rate they are used.
 
John Baker said:
Do you think my life would have been better had my teachers insisted I be drugged?

-John
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NOPE! But the powers that be want the young to fall in line, do what they're told, and not think for themselves. I believe that's more indoctrination than education.

It has always been the thinkers that have improved the world. The lemmings simply follow the leader into oblivion.
 
frfly172 said:
It's all about the money. The new norm is if you think something isn't right ,there has to be a pill for it.
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Or more accurately, "there has to be a way to make some money on this".
 
weilke said:
Make jonny special ed or make up disciplinary reports until they can expel him..
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I quit school at 15. It's not the end of the world. I'd rather be expelled than have a history of ADD or whatever.
 
John Baker said:
"some kids do struggle with attention and benefit from medication."

Does the kid decide, or do teachers "recommend" that the kids parents decide?

I was, and still am, a reading fanatic. I would read all of my textbooks from cover to cover the first few weeks of the school year. I spent the rest of the year bored to tears. I countered that by screwing around in class.

I also loved fighting for some reason, especially in middle school. They kicked me out of high school mostly for fighting after just three months there. I had a C-B grade average. I went to work in the restaurant industry for a while, then joined the paratroopers, where I became a sergeant when I was nineteen, mostly due to my combative nature, and my love for reading field manuals.

I made it to the upper echelons in the corporate world after the army, then started my own business that kept me going for 35 years until I sold it and retired. My house is paid for, I paid cash for my airplane, the same with my car, I have no credit card debt, or any other debt.

I attribute all of that not to my ninth grade education, but more to my self confidence and my determination.

Do you think my life would have been better had my teachers insisted I be drugged?

-John
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John I've read your posts here before and I have a bunch of respect for you. You are the exception though- not the rule. You clearly have enough self motivation to get things done and that is by far a more important attribute than being good at school. If I had taught you I doubt I would have blamed you for being bored if you knew the info already. I hate to break it to you though, kids who struggle with attention don't struggle because the are bored. They struggle because often, things far beyond ther control are impacting their ability to focus. They can't help it-- not their fault.

I get that people love to blame schools and want schools to do everything for them including raise their kids and feed them now too( after school programs so mom and dad can work late, lunches and breakfast for free). So I get that people love to just say, "well the powers that be want kids to fall in line." ummmm no. But I also know that no one believes that. Schools have become the target for everyone who wants to lay blame for the failings of, whatever or whoever they think is currently failing. Sure, that's well within anyone's rights but at least as far as my experience is in education, people involved in teaching want students to succeed and not fail. It's sad though that even that statement is now called into question by so many.
 
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weilke said:
Make jonny special ed or make up disciplinary reports until they can expel him..
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.... Kids with ADD are already in special Ed so their goes that argument.

Making up discipline reports-- ummm no again. Simply does not go on where I teach.
 
jspilot said:
.... Kids with ADD are already in special Ed so their goes that argument.
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Those kids all came out of regular schools. The parents were threatened that the kids would be demoted to special ed if they didn't get calmed down. Some of them didn't even do that poorly academically, they were just 'a handful', probably bored out of their minds.
 
jspilot said:
John I've read your posts here before and I have a bunch of respect for you. You are the exception though- not the rule. You clearly have enough self motivation to get things done and that is by far a more important attribute than being good at school. If I had taught you I doubt I would have blamed you for being bored if you knew the info already. I hate to break it to you though, kids who struggle with attention don't struggle because the are bored. They struggle because often, things far beyond ther control are impacting their ability to focus. They can't help it-- not their fault.

I get that people love to blame schools and want schools to do everything for them including raise their kids and feed them now too( after school programs so mom and dad can work late, lunches and breakfast for free). So I get that people love to just say, "well the powers that be want kids to fall in line." ummmm no. But I also know that no one believes that. Schools have become the target for everyone who wants to lay blame for the failings of, whatever or whoever they think is currently failing. Sure, that's well within anyone's rights but at least as far as my experience is in education, people involved in teaching want students to succeed and not fail. It's sad though that even that statement is now called into question by so many.
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My only complaints about today's school systems are their almost fanatical anti gun stance, their gun free zones, zero tolerance, and that they progress kids through the grades when they should not be progressing at all or without having demonstrated that they know the material.

Kids graduating that can not even read, or write their own name in cursive, kids that could not find the U.S. on a world map, yet they graduated high school. I had to teach many of my new employees how to read a tape measure, and do simple calculations, third grade stuff.

-John
 
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John has a point. The threat of being held back a year is virtually non-existent these days, and while there's plenty of dropouts, just showing up will often lead to a high school "diploma".

Here's one I'm curious about. If you label a student as special needs, do you get a break on standardized testing for that student? Seems like there would be a significant lean toward getting "day dreamers" listed as having special needs, to avoid de-funding in places where testing determines funds.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
denverpilot said:
John has a point. The threat of being held back a year is virtually non-existent these days, and while there's plenty of dropouts, just showing up will often lead to a high school "diploma".
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Maybe schools in the Denver area, but I can tell you from personal experience that around here that is simply untrue.
 
denverpilot said:
John has a point. The threat of being held back a year is virtually non-existent these days, and while there's plenty of dropouts, just showing up will often lead to a high school "diploma".

Here's one I'm curious about. If you label a student as special needs, do you get a break on standardized testing for that student? Seems like there would be a significant lean toward getting "day dreamers" listed as having special needs, to avoid de-funding in places where testing determines funds.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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The answer to your question, Denverpilot, is it varies state to state. In New York, students who are deemed to have special needs get testing modifications to allow them to participate in the tests. They still take them same tests but may be given more time to complete the test for example, or allowed to type their answers to writing prompts if their handwritting is too bad or they may be allowed to take breaks during the test if stamina and attention are issues. Yet, the state of New York requires these students to pass the state tests to the same level as non special education students in order to pass and graduate.

Where this all gets very "dicey" is with regards to promotional criteria. The general rule of thumb in New York( as far as I can tell) is students usually have to meet 80% of the state standards for their given grade in order to be promoted to the next grade. This can be lowered to 70 or 60% for students with special needs but those instances are very rare in my experience. Why this is dicey is that the amount of state standards even in just one content area like history( the subject I teach) is very extensive so it is virtually impossible to determine if a student has met 80% of them. Some of the state standards are virtually un-testable so it is not a great system. Hope this helps.
 
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jspilot said:
Medicating a student is not a decision anyone takes lightly. I'm sure everyone realizes that.
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I call bull**** on this one. The school my grandson attends wants to diagnose and drug him for this make believe condition, BECAUSE it results in more money from the state every time they "diagnose" and "treat" a child by keeping them stoned.

As is the case far too often, it is always about the money.
 
Palmpilot said:
Righties are all for people thinking for themselves as long as they think like the righties do.
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Lefties LIVE for conformity. No lefty truly cares what the party line is as long as it is mandatory.
 
denverpilot said:
The threat of being held back a year is virtually non-existent these days, and while there's plenty of dropouts, just showing up will often lead to a high school "diploma".
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I have an acquaintance who is the same age as I. He graduated high school in 1978 from Terrell I think...or maybe Kaufman...one of those towns out east of Dallas.

He was the star running back and still holds many records.

He can't read or write.

He has a high school diploma.

He can't read or write.

Just a data point.
 
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