The Mother of All Cross-Countries - Recommended Route?

[Fearless Tower]

So, due to just a few schedule conflicts related to the move and reporting to my ship, I am finally getting around to embarking on my epic cross-country (moving my 170 from San Diego to Norfolk, VA). I had originally planned this for mid-June, but now I am looking at doing it in early to mid-November.

Any recommendations for weather routing that time of year? The airplane is IFR legal, but with an ancient shot-gun style panel, so prolonged IFR in IMC is not ideal, plus ice is now a concern.

Any thoughts?

 

[bbchien]

Follow I-40. The whole thing can be done below 10,000. Stops in Kingman, FLG, ABQ and down to the low county. Hopefully the every 3 day huge fronts "fall pattern" from Tx to Minnesota will be gone by then....

 

[dell30rb]

Follow I-40. The whole thing can be done below 10,000. Stops in Kingman, FLG, ABQ and down to the low county. Hopefully the every 3 day huge fronts "fall pattern" from Tx to Minnesota will be gone by then....

Hey if its fast moving you can just follow it through!

We have a big one coming tomorrow

 

[Fearless Tower]

Follow I-40. The whole thing can be done below 10,000. Stops in Kingman, FLG, ABQ and down to the low county. Hopefully the every 3 day huge fronts "fall pattern" from Tx to Minnesota will be gone by then....

I'll most likely be overnighting in Phoenix (FFZ) with my Dad and then I was planning on flying from FFZ to AEG. After Albuquerque, I was debating on going toward ICT, OKC or heading SE and flying down across TX. Do you think the southern route is better that time of year?

 

[Graueradler]

Follow I-40. .

We (KRUE) are a good stop about 2 miles south of I-40 about 50 miles east of Fort Smith.

 

[poadeleted20]

I'm with Bruce on the I-40 route.

 

[bbchien]

I'll most likely be overnighting in Phoenix (FFZ) with my Dad and then I was planning on flying from FFZ to AEG. After Albuquerque, I was debating on going toward ICT, OKC or heading SE and flying down across TX. Do you think the southern route is better that time of year?

Hopefully the monsoons are gone by November, but the I-10 route is much more susceptible to Gulf moisture (east of Death Valley, that is).

Stop and Visit in PHX, just remember there are substantial mountains north of PHX and from ELP up to ABQ NM and beyond, so you are probably going to dog leg it, or look for a NICE day to fly PHX to St. John's and rejoin the I-40 route.

 

[Jeanie]

If you decide to fly by way of el paso, you can stop at Santa Teresa just west of there, a very small airport and get fuel. It's much cheaper than KELP, then you fly just barely south of the ridge byt the cement company stacks and on thru the area.

If you decide to come across Texas let me know and I can give you info regarding a number of the areas across the middle.

Sounds like a long but interesting trip!

 

[Z06_Mir]

Hopefully the monsoons are gone by November, but the I-10 route is much more susceptible to Gulf moisture (east of Death Valley, that is).

Stop and Visit in PHX, just remember there are substantial mountains north of PHX and from ELP up to ABQ NM and beyond, so you are probably going to dog leg it, or look for a NICE day to fly PHX to St. John's and rejoin the I-40 route.

Our Monsoons are pretty much gone already. The other day we had a bit of rain with a cold front (Thanks California, that's the one thing you're good for) but nothing that would make a VFR guy wait more than a day.

 

[comanchepilot]

Many of us have done this before - so if you want someone to go with you - all you need to do is pick up the ticket home . . . .

that said I did this the other way in 3 consecutive days in January 2010. From Connecticut to Brackett in SoCal. I took the southern route over ELP. You are in a 170, I was in a Comanche 260C and I still took the southern route and could have done I40 if I wanted to do - we got the only nice 3 consecutive days to do that trip all winter. November obviously will be better.

If I were doing it again I'd do it in the reverse of how I did it - Banning Pass to BLH - VICKO intersection in Arizona - then over Gila Bend - Stanfield - San Simon - Columbus - El Paso - spend the night there perhaps - and then Fort Stockton and then over Dallas - skirt the southern edge of the Appalachians and the turn NE near Greensboro and Greenville SC.

Remember you only have about 10.5-11 hours of daylight in early November even that far south - which gives you maybe 12 hours of daylight flying - and you want to be east of the mountains before dark if you don't fly them very often. And you will lose an hour heading east from the time zone changes.

I figure a 170 can do about what a 172 can - so 105-110ktas will work. Given range you might need to stop in Tucson for fuel before pushing on to ELP/5T6. you can do that 7500' except for one portion of the route that requires a climb. Assuming departure of 30 min before sunrise and only a fuel a fuel and potty stop in Tuscon you get to 5T6 by 7 hours after departure true elapsed time - which means getting to 5T6 by 130pm.

If you have another pilot you can prob press on to get out of the mountains - you have about 4.5 hours of daylight left and can easily fuel up, eat and get another 3.5 hour out of the airplane to get you perhaps to Abilene TX. This gets you completely out of the mountains and lets you now cruise at 5500 from this point forward and little better speeds.

Given that you can easily do the trip out of the LA basin at 7500 all the way to El Paso except for a short area that you can circumnavigate if you have to - or climb to 9500 for a short interval - I'd take the southern route.

I'd be willing to bet that if you plan to take I40 that you'll be changing that at the last minute - there is weather system called the Denver low thatbegins to develop in late October which bring truly windy weather to the southern Rockies - and having limited horsepower and not that far up - well - I'd take the extra 200nm and take the southern route. . . .

 

[Jeanie]

If you decide to take the route that Comanche pilot recommends let me know. I'm often in Ft. Stockton teaching.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Many of us have done this before - so if you want someone to go with you - all you need to do is pick up the ticket home . . . .

that said I did this the other way in 3 consecutive days in January 2010. From Connecticut to Brackett in SoCal. I took the southern route over ELP. You are in a 170, I was in a Comanche 260C and I still took the southern route and could have done I40 if I wanted to do - we got the only nice 3 consecutive days to do that trip all winter. November obviously will be better.

If I were doing it again I'd do it in the reverse of how I did it - Banning Pass to BLH - VICKO intersection in Arizona - then over Gila Bend - Stanfield - San Simon - Columbus - El Paso - spend the night there perhaps - and then Fort Stockton and then over Dallas - skirt the southern edge of the Appalachians and the turn NE near Greensboro and Greenville SC.

Remember you only have about 10.5-11 hours of daylight in early November even that far south - which gives you maybe 12 hours of daylight flying - and you want to be east of the mountains before dark if you don't fly them very often. And you will lose an hour heading east from the time zone changes.

I figure a 170 can do about what a 172 can - so 105-110ktas will work. Given range you might need to stop in Tucson for fuel before pushing on to ELP/5T6. you can do that 7500' except for one portion of the route that requires a climb. Assuming departure of 30 min before sunrise and only a fuel a fuel and potty stop in Tuscon you get to 5T6 by 7 hours after departure true elapsed time - which means getting to 5T6 by 130pm.

If you have another pilot you can prob press on to get out of the mountains - you have about 4.5 hours of daylight left and can easily fuel up, eat and get another 3.5 hour out of the airplane to get you perhaps to Abilene TX. This gets you completely out of the mountains and lets you now cruise at 5500 from this point forward and little better speeds.

Given that you can easily do the trip out of the LA basin at 7500 all the way to El Paso except for a short area that you can circumnavigate if you have to - or climb to 9500 for a short interval - I'd take the southern route.

I'd be willing to bet that if you plan to take I40 that you'll be changing that at the last minute - there is weather system called the Denver low thatbegins to develop in late October which bring truly windy weather to the southern Rockies - and having limited horsepower and not that far up - well - I'd take the extra 200nm and take the southern route. . . .

Thanks for the info. One concern I have about the southern route is that I have flown that one a few times between San Diego and Corpus in other planes. Always seems like the wind in the ELP area is blowing over 30kts on the surface every time I flew through there. I consider myself a competent tailwheel pilot. But I have never flown a tailwheel in winds like that.

As for the 170....it's a slow '48 with metalized wing, so my cruise is only 95 KTAS with 3 hrs 45 min full fuel.

 

[Fearless Tower]

If you decide to take the route that Comanche pilot recommends let me know. I'm often in Ft. Stockton teaching.

Definitely....I've stopped at Ft Stockton before....nice airport.....although Pecos has the burritos!

 

[Jeanie]

The woman who runs the pecos airport is a good friend... I like going up there too! The winds shouldn't be too bad in November ... Pecos has several rwys to choose from, even a taxiway that used to be a runway can be used if it's really howling.. You can always call unicom for wing walkers

Either way, let me know

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

Definitely....I've stopped at Ft Stockton before....nice airport.....although Pecos has the burritos!

Been to Ft. Stockton, Van Horn(Thorn as I call it), Pecos, Santa Teresa, Fabens, Deming. All of them aren't bad places. If you follow I-10, the absolute lowest route is the train tracks, not the highway. They are easy to follow on a moonlight night, surprisingly.

 

[comanchepilot]

Thanks for the info. One concern I have about the southern route is that I have flown that one a few times between San Diego and Corpus in other planes. Always seems like the wind in the ELP area is blowing over 30kts on the surface every time I flew through there. I consider myself a competent tailwheel pilot. But I have never flown a tailwheel in winds like that.

As for the 170....it's a slow '48 with metalized wing, so my cruise is only 95 KTAS with 3 hrs 45 min full fuel.

then you may only make ELP on the southern route or Dalhart on the northern I40 route the first day at 95 ktas. -

Honestly - there is a better chance of better weather at ELP than at ABQ/DHT etc. The winds are usually right down the runway = but 30kts can lift the tail.

Lemme give you some advice - check the weather at crucial points several times a day when you think you'll be going through. you'll get an idea for the weather and how it evolves during the day and before and during changes in pressure that happen when storms pass to the north.

If you think you'll need to be ELP in the afternoon check the aftn winds a few hours either side of arrival time. Same with DHT or somewhere else along the route. You can prob figure on 15-20kts of tailwind.

The winds I've heard are every bit as 'active' at Fort Stockton and pretty much anywhere in West Texas.

 

[Jeanie]

Yep, wind is a way of life out here. But in the winter unless there is a front blowing thru they aren't near as bas as say in march!

 

[Diana]

I'll most likely be overnighting in Phoenix (FFZ) with my Dad and then I was planning on flying from FFZ to AEG. After Albuquerque, I was debating on going toward ICT, OKC or heading SE and flying down across TX.

There is a similar flight that was posted on the SuperCub forum. The two guys were in a Decathlon. Maybe you can get some helpful information from that thread, plus the usual stuff that isn't helpful.

The two guys actually stopped here at our farm (08MO) for the night and then made it all the way to MD the next day. They spent the first night in Grant, NM and slept in the FBO. They had some cross-feed issues and had to stop about every 1.5 hours for fuel.

 

[danhagan]

Thanks for the info. One concern I have about the southern route is that I have flown that one a few times between San Diego and Corpus in other planes. Always seems like the wind in the ELP area is blowing over 30kts on the surface every time I flew through there. I consider myself a competent tailwheel pilot. But I have never flown a tailwheel in winds like that.

Nice thing at El Paso (I live here), is that Las Cruces (KLRU) is the "oh crap" airport (3 runways) if winds look really bad (5T6, KELP, KLRU, T27 and E35 are all within a few miles of each other). Also, although the sectional lacks "tick" marks indicating fuel available, Van Horn DOES have fuel ... don't skip it if you need it. A lot of guys have run out between Van Horn and El Paso thinking there was no fuel at Van Horn. The local sheriff and game warden live behind th FBO at Van Horn, so even if it is after hours you can get them to help you with fuel. Also Carlsbad NM has 4 runways further to the east and self serve fuel if needed.

Yep, wind is a way of life out here. But in the winter unless there is a front blowing thru they aren't near as bas as say in march!

Jeanie is correct. Spring is our windy season and often lasts until June.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Nice thing at El Paso (I live here), is that Las Cruces (KLRU) is the "oh crap" airport (3 runways) if winds look really bad (5T6, KELP, KLRU, T27 and E35 are all within a few miles of each other). Also, although the sectional lacks "tick" marks indicating fuel available, Van Horn DOES have fuel ... don't skip it if you need it. A lot of guys have run out between Van Horn and El Paso thinking there was no fuel at Van Horn. The local sheriff and game warden live behind th FBO at Van Horn, so even if it is after hours you can get them to help you with fuel. Also Carlsbad NM has 4 runways further to the east and self serve fuel if needed.



Jeanie is correct. Spring is our windy season and often lasts until June.

That is good info, thanks!

Come to think of it, my previous trips across Texas were all in the spring.

Right now, my trip is shaping up like this:

Arrive in San Diego on a Monday morning....test fly the 170 and then depart mid-afternoon for FFZ. Stay overnight with my Dad in Scottsdale and then depart early the next morning. Depending on how the weather is shaping up, I'll either head NE toward AEG and stop the following night at ICT or go SE via ELP and overnight in Ft Worth. Stop in Chattanooga the next night (more family) and then head on to Norfolk.

I'll have plenty of time to adjust, wait stuff out...etc.

If I go the Wichita route, I was thinking of stopping at Gastons for either breakfast or lunch. Anyone know what the field conditions are in early-mid Nov?


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[Diana]

If I go the Wichita route, I was thinking of stopping at Gastons for either breakfast or lunch. Anyone know what the field conditions are in early-mid Nov?

We fly there often, all times of the year. It should be good then. When you know when you will be there, we'll fly down and meet you for lunch.

You are welcome to stay at our farm (08MO) near Joplin, MO if it's on your route. We have an apartment in the hangar that some folks have stayed in as they fly by on their travels. Or, if you land at the nearest paved airport, KLLU, we can give you a car to drive to town and will find you a hangar if you want.

 

[comanchepilot]

I've wanted to do DHT ICT STL etc heading east lots of time - have never done it. Enough ice for the annual Scotch convention . . . every single time.

 

[wabower]

Every time you make that offer I think about how nicely your setup works out for vagrant airplane drivers and how I could do the same thing at the farm.

Then I think about the hassles of mowing and maintaining the damn thing and say screw them, they can call me from the airport and stay in the guest room upstairs. Maybe Rich Traunero has the best deal by living next door the the city airport that he doesn't have to mow.

We fly there often, all times of the year. It should be good then. When you know when you will be there, we'll fly down and meet you for lunch.

You are welcome to stay at our farm (08MO) near Joplin, MO if it's on your route. We have an apartment in the hangar that some folks have stayed in as they fly by on their travels. Or, if you land at the nearest paved airport, KLLU, we can give you a car to drive to town and will find you a hangar if you want.

 

[comanchepilot]

. Maybe Rich Traunero has the best deal by living next door the the city airport that he doesn't have to mow.

NOBODY wants to meet Rich Tranero at work or stay in HIS house!!

 

[Silvaire]

...there is weather system called the Denver low that begins to develop in late October which bring truly windy weather to the southern Rockies - and having limited horsepower and not that far up - well - I'd take the extra 200nm and take the southern route. . . .

It wasn't in October but in June a couple of years ago I was ferrying a buddy's 150 from California to Oklahoma. It was a pretty smooth flight up to the point when I landed west of Albuquerque at Double Eagle, had lunch and topped off the tanks. I figured the best route would be just north of Sandia Peak and as soon as I passed that 10,000 foot escarpment it was like hitting a long, long stretch of white water. I was getting tossed around like a leaf and couldn't take my hand off the yoke for a second all the way to Tucumcari.

Don't know if it was a "Denver low" but it sure got my attention.

 

[Diana]

Every time you make that offer I think about how nicely your setup works out for vagrant airplane drivers and how I could do the same thing at the farm.

Then I think about the hassles of mowing and maintaining the damn thing and say screw them, they can call me from the airport and stay in the guest room upstairs.

I hear ya! Sometimes Tom and I stop to re-evaluate why we work so hard here and wonder what we can quit doing. But then, someone flies in and we thoroughly enjoy visiting with them, or we land here after a trip and we are home when we land.

Having good machines make it much easier. Besides, I love my time on the tractor...it's a great time to think, problem-solve, and come up with new ideas.

Some of us would fly in to see you more often if you had a grass strip.

 

[wabower]

I'd be tickled to have the company, but can't foresee it happening. The farm is only 2 miles east of the airport, so I've never been able to make the numbers work. Every time I visit Walt's place I'm struck by the amount of work he has devoted to it, fortunately he hasn't needed to spend any money. Well, maybe a little for the gumbo fixin's.

I hear ya! Sometimes Tom and I stop to re-evaluate why we work so hard here and wonder what we can quit doing. But then, someone flies in and we thoroughly enjoy visiting with them, or we land here after a trip and we are home when we land.

Having good machines make it much easier. Besides, I love my time on the tractor...it's a great time to think, problem-solve, and come up with new ideas.

Some of us would fly in to see you more often if you had a grass strip.