The Mechanic Wants to Talk to Me...

flygirl34q

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Well, my annual inspection is finished and the mechanic just called. He wants to talk IN PERSON about the issues that he found. Headed out to the airport now.

Ugh... :yikes:
 
Maybe he wants to take a picture with you because this is the first annual he has performed where there is actually NOTHING that needs to be fixed.

Just sayin... cup half full, and all that... ;)
 
Well, my annual inspection is finished and the mechanic just called. He wants to talk IN PERSON about the issues that he found. Headed out to the airport now.

Ugh... :yikes:

I always have a conversation with the owner about what to expect in the next year, and what I found during the inspection.
 
Yes it was, on several levels.

A few years back, someone I knew with a Warrior had a $35,000 annual. Yes, the shop was trying to rip her off on some levels, but for the most part it was legitimate items.

Another friend had to overhaul his mid-time O-360 in his Cherokee 180 when some of the tappets went out and took the engine with them. Brad had issues with his O-360 in his Cherokee, as well, nowhere near TBO.

I had to do a top overhaul on a 600 SMOH engine when all 6 cylinders were in the 50-62 compressions. Many owners of big-bore Continentals are doing cylinders every annual, primarily if they run their engines wrong.

When my AI/HSI combination kept on trying to fly me into a ridge on ILSs to minimums, they needed to be replaced.

I realize your plane was freshly done up and came from the sweepstakes, but there are much, much worse annuals, even on low-cost planes. And given the transponder that they put in it, it sounds to me like it was more or less what I'd expect - done up reasonably well, but still inexpensively. Makes sense for a plane that's being given away, and proof that nothing is truly "free."

But back to Lynn's annual: What's wrong with your plane?
 
Well, my annual inspection is finished and the mechanic just called. He wants to talk IN PERSON about the issues that he found. Headed out to the airport now.

Ugh... :yikes:

That didn't take him long to find something to talk about. Maybe it's the color?! :rofl:

EDIT: I see Tim went "there" too! :rofl: :rofl:

Here you go:

milkshake_chocolate.gif
 
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I'm thinking a chocolate shake is a relatively minor issue. A major issue is a big fat spliff or perhaps a shot of Jack Daniels.
 
I need a chocolate shake now... Large. :(

Oh no!

(Even more worrisome is that you just departed Gaston's a few days ago with whatever's wrong with virtually nowhere to put 'er down if the engine had quit...)

Sorry to hear the AMU monster is hungry. Feed me Seymore!!!
 
They can't always be cheap. Last year mine was cheap but this year I had a leaky exhaust valve....turned out the cylinder was out of spec and no one does chrome anymore. A little over $1k and problems solved. Makes it easier when I can do the work....cheaper too. But it still costs. Hopefully the other 3 will be ok for at least another year. Good to stagger these things.

Hope yours isn't too bad.

Frank
 
Oy! Whats the Diagnosis Lynn?

Sigh... I don't know where to start. I had the mechanic make me a copy of his list and it looks very long. Apparently, the engine compressions are good: 73/80, 78/80, 78/80, 74/80. But it goes downhill from there:

1. Right magneto needs overhauled... too much time on it.
2. Carb heat shroud broken/carb heat itself also needs adjustment.
3. Dipstick housing gasket leaking.
4. All rocker covers leaking.

Apparently, the engine is very leaky in more than a few places... he said this is why it seems like I have been using more oil lately than in the past.

And airframe issues:

1. Left main tire needs replaced.
2. ELT needs new battery.
3. Battery box cover broken/ Box itself corroded.
4. Missing static wicks need replaced.
5. LOTS of items involving loose nuts and bolts. Some are missing completely.


Nawww...just paint, he doesn't like purple. :rolleyes:

Seriously, Lynn...fingers crossed for the best.


So, between the leaks and the loose nuts and bolts... my airplane sucks at life. It only looks good, no matter what you guys all say. :rolleyes:

And then there is this...

IMG_1880.jpg


This is a dent in the middle underside of the left stabilator that the mechanic said would need to be taken apart to check for hidden damage and then rebuilt. And repainted. I have no idea how this even happened.


Ah, it's only money! :yikes:

Good luck on whatever it is.


:sad: I'm guessing it is going to be a long non-flying summer for me. I'm glad I had fun at Sun 'n Fun and at Gaston's. My photos will have to be enough for me for awhile. :sad:
 
is your mechanic Grandpa Moses or something? That doesn't seem to me to be a summer's worth of repairs/replacements necessary
 
Regarding the dent that ought to pull out with a suction cup and do a better job than trying to open it and push it out. As for hidden damage there's nothing in there to damage. on the mag if it is a Slick get a new one as overhauling them cannot be done properly at a reasonable cost. An IRAN would do? Charlie Melot Zephyr Engines
 
That ain't all that bad. Read what Charlie Melot wrote...
 
- Are leaky gaskets an airworthiness issue ?
- As for fixing the dent, it is a control surface, whatever the maintenance manual states for repair of those is binding.
- Shop around for the static wicks, there may be a PMA part available.
 
Regarding the dent that ought to pull out with a suction cup and do a better job than trying to open it and push it out. As for hidden damage there's nothing in there to damage. on the mag if it is a Slick get a new one as overhauling them cannot be done properly at a reasonable cost. An IRAN would do? Charlie Melot Zephyr Engines
I would IRAN. I doubt replacing the whole mag is really worth the cost. That is what I did with mine, as recommended by Tom D. I seem to recall him saying that the older Slicks are better repaired than the new ones.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Sigh... I don't know where to start. I had the mechanic make me a copy of his list and it looks very long. Apparently, the engine compressions are good: 73/80, 78/80, 78/80, 74/80. But it goes downhill from there:

1. Right magneto needs overhauled... too much time on it.
2. Carb heat shroud broken/carb heat itself also needs adjustment.
3. Dipstick housing gasket leaking.
4. All rocker covers leaking.

Apparently, the engine is very leaky in more than a few places... he said this is why it seems like I have been using more oil lately than in the past.

And airframe issues:

1. Left main tire needs replaced.
2. ELT needs new battery.
3. Battery box cover broken/ Box itself corroded.
4. Missing static wicks need replaced.
5. LOTS of items involving loose nuts and bolts. Some are missing completely.





So, between the leaks and the loose nuts and bolts... my airplane sucks at life. It only looks good, no matter what you guys all say. :rolleyes:

And then there is this...

IMG_1880.jpg


This is a dent in the middle underside of the left stabilator that the mechanic said would need to be taken apart to check for hidden damage and then rebuilt. And repainted. I have no idea how this even happened.





:sad: I'm guessing it is going to be a long non-flying summer for me. I'm glad I had fun at Sun 'n Fun and at Gaston's. My photos will have to be enough for me for awhile. :sad:
Your discrepancy list looks pretty normal, and they need to be repaired. but the dent??

I'd call wentworth and get an other one, paint it at the local body shop and have the mechanic R&R it. repairing it will be a heap of man hours. and the skins are expensive.

Do you know the mechanic didn't make the dent? hangar rash getting into his hangar.
 
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IRAN mag (working fine? No need)
New ELT battery
Replace tire
Replace battery box
Tighten loose stuff, replace misc hardware
Repair shroud, adjust heat cable/linkage

Depending on severity of leaks... They can wait

Stabilitator unairworthy..... new mechanic
 
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We talked about this okay. None of those things seem to be a huge killer. Annuals can get pricey sometimes as things accumulate. Your airplane isn't falling apart, it just needs some attention and right now more than normal.
 
Sigh... I don't know where to start. I had the mechanic make me a copy of his list and it looks very long. Apparently, the engine compressions are good: 73/80, 78/80, 78/80, 74/80.

That's actually great news. Engines are spendy. ;)

But it goes downhill from there:

1. Right magneto needs overhauled... too much time on it.
2. Carb heat shroud broken/carb heat itself also needs adjustment.
3. Dipstick housing gasket leaking.
4. All rocker covers leaking.

Mag may be better to replace... see Charlie's comment. Not a ton of labor to do it, usually.

Shroud... is there a hole in the thing or is he saying it's not attached well anymore or something?

Duncan, Tom and others can comment, but the only adjustment I'm aware of is the cable and the door opening. I'd kinda want to know more on that one...

If the shroud has to be removed and repaired, that's a few hours labor but not hideous usually. One of the maybe higher dollar items on the list but only if your need or want a new one. Need photos. :)

Dipstick... Cheap, easy. No big worry there. Makes a mess if you don't fix it though.

Rocker covers and oil leaks... Comments below...

Apparently, the engine is very leaky in more than a few places... he said this is why it seems like I have been using more oil lately than in the past.

How much is it using? Where are they coming from besides the rocker box gasket?

We have a couple of leaks we can't find. We've even had our mechanic on the prowl for them.

Duncan even assisted with some helpful comments -- for this dumb non-mechanic -- on mine at Gaston's. (I probably owe him a beverage for that... I learned something. Mainly that it's highly unlikely it was coming from where I thought it was.

Depending on where they are they can be quite messy. A little motor oil goes a long way in making messes and coating everything in sight.

Here's my good news thought for you, though. There's a flip side to this, that should be mentioned... these are essentially 1930's tractor engines. They leak. And you'll NEVER find all of them at the same time. Pulling off the rocker covers and changing the gaskets will stop that one leak, but there's probably more.

Ask Greg about oil being everywhere -- I bet he has some stories. ;)

The biggest problem with bigger non-pressure leaks is the oil gets everywhere and makes a godawful mess. It attacks cable covers and belts and gets in electrical molex connectors and covers metal stuff.

But rocker cover leaks aren't from the pressurized portion of the system. They're what I call "sloppy" leaks. Oil splashing around on top to the rockers and valve springs isn't under pressure up there usually, it's just slopping around inside that cover. If there's a leak in the gasket around the cover, small but continuous amounts of oil gets out and goes places you don't want it and you spend more time cleaning it off stuff anytime the cowl is open -- and of course, off the belly.

But it's usually not a safety issue, unless a huge chunk of the gasket is gone. Even then, it's usually just a mess. Depends on how much and where.

On the leaks, you might ask what he recommends and see how open he is to giving you a solid estimate on pulling the rocker covers and replacing the gasket. Maybe defer it until winter when you're not flying the plane but let him hunt other leaks at the same time.

Or wait for info on the stabilator and other items if he's willing to defer the leak, just to see where the total bill is coming out to.

I've seen folks let oil leaks like that go for a while. Good mechanics will always want them found and stopped, that's the nature of a good mechanic. It may not have to be done right away, however. Depends on how bad it is and where it's going.

And airframe issues:

1. Left main tire needs replaced.
2. ELT needs new battery.
3. Battery box cover broken/ Box itself corroded.
4. Missing static wicks need replaced.
5. LOTS of items involving loose nuts and bolts. Some are missing completely.

Tires. It happens. We did ours this year. We went with cheaper ones at the specific recommendation of the mechanic. (Plus he made us a nice deal on them.)

We'll see if that turns out to be smart or not. One landing with a brake on, it's genius. Perfect landings by three different pilots over many years, the more expensive tires make more sense. :)

I do feel a difference in the cheaper tires. They slid on the grass easier at Gaston's holding the brakes for the STOL takeoff and they obviously have weaker sidewalls... If you allow any side loads they "squish" a bit that direction. The Goodyear Flight III tires that were on there for longer than we've owned the aircraft never felt like that. So... Unless one of us bald spots a tire, the price difference will probably be a wash with replacing these sooner.

ELT: Does yours use D-cell style or something fancier and more expensive? Ours needed them this year too, and it wasn't that painful. We have D-style.

Battery box: Of all the things you listed, this is the one I like the least. Reason is... I want to know where the battery acid is coming from that's eating it and why. I want a good look around for corrosion. But if yours is an original, it's probably due. They're not hideously expensive, but they're overpriced for what they are. If the box is newer, and battery acid is eating it, I'd want to get a good look around it and make sure there's not other corrosion and get the area cleaned up well. Baking soda and water. All that jazz.

We ran our battery six+ years and it was strong the whole time, but there was evidence of it leaking out the belly tube from our tail and we had to have the paint touched up where acid had blistered paint externally. Mechanic also cleaned up the box. Sealed battery is an option but our mechanic doesn't like them in aircraft that might sit for a few weeks once in a while in the dead of winter or that fly short flights. They discharge internally a little faster and they take a little longer to charge. He hasn't had good luck with them, but he does service the non-sealed properly each year. Some mechanics don't bother. And we weren't sure if some of the blisters weren't there previously from a previous battery's leak, but that's neither here nor there. Found and fixed.

Loose nuts and bolts. Cheap. Easy. No worries there. Some of our inspection fairing screws in the tail were working their way loose and disappearing. Mechanic had replaced a few for two years. We let him know that at least one was falling out on the trip home across town every year so it was time to upsize or do whatever to get them to stay put. 36 years of removing and replacing will do that.

So, between the leaks and the loose nuts and bolts... my airplane sucks at life. It only looks good, no matter what you guys all say. :rolleyes:

It's fine. It's just a three decade plus old machine. Nothing above worries me too much or is a major surprise. It kinda sucks when they find a big list of piddly stuff all at once, but those are all pretty common on older airframes. And I truly believe some of that can be deferred if you must. Most of those aren't recurring problems either, so you'll be "good to go" for a while after all that.

And then there is this...

IMG_1880.jpg


This is a dent in the middle underside of the left stabilator that the mechanic said would need to be taken apart to check for hidden damage and then rebuilt. And repainted. I have no idea how this even happened.

I can't comment on that one, but it sounds like some qualified folks already disagree with the repair suggested. Might want a second opinion on it. Definitely a big bummer. To be honest, I don't remember seeing it at Gaston's when a number of us were helping tie down with your Claws. Wonder if you chucked a rock or something up into it on the takeoff roll on departure?

(Also have never had any experience with such damage or a repair for it before, but maybe it's something covered by insurance? Someone else may have thoughts on that.)

Your mechanic didn't just send his first kid off to college did he? ;) ;) ;) (Ducking... Duncan and Tom are going to kick me for that one.) Just kidding. Actually the list shows he's thorough.

Most of this list just looks like a lot of labor to me. How's your mechanic's labor rate? ;)

:sad: I'm guessing it is going to be a long non-flying summer for me. I'm glad I had fun at Sun 'n Fun and at Gaston's. My photos will have to be enough for me for awhile. :sad:

Nah... Just less shoe shopping this summer and maybe a second visit to the shop this winter for some leak hunting. ;) ;) ;)

I'd chat with the mechanic about the order to do them in and estimates. He should understand that it's a "bigger than usual" squawk list and work with ya. None of that stuff should preclude a Ferry Permit if you don't like the answers other than the mag and perhaps the stabilator, and I doubt the stabilator would stop it.

Personally, I believe it's flyable to somewhere else if you're getting the impression you're getting shafted. I don't think you are, but if cash is tight, discuss with him.

Added up, it'll be a bit spendy, but nothing screams "OMG!" to me. Kinda depends on if your mechanic dawdles or over-bills on labor hours. Ours is good about not doing that. We've been surprised at some items being lower than expected. And he knows where to get parts and things that are good quality and "reasonable".
 
As our attorney would say, "stated another way"
 
Sigh... I don't know where to start. I had the mechanic make me a copy of his list and it looks very long. Apparently, the engine compressions are good: 73/80, 78/80, 78/80, 74/80. But it goes downhill from there:

1. Right magneto needs overhauled... too much time on it.
2. Carb heat shroud broken/carb heat itself also needs adjustment.
3. Dipstick housing gasket leaking.
4. All rocker covers leaking.

Apparently, the engine is very leaky in more than a few places... he said this is why it seems like I have been using more oil lately than in the past.

And airframe issues:

1. Left main tire needs replaced.
2. ELT needs new battery.
3. Battery box cover broken/ Box itself corroded.
4. Missing static wicks need replaced.
5. LOTS of items involving loose nuts and bolts. Some are missing completely.





So, between the leaks and the loose nuts and bolts... my airplane sucks at life. It only looks good, no matter what you guys all say. :rolleyes:

And then there is this...

IMG_1880.jpg


This is a dent in the middle underside of the left stabilator that the mechanic said would need to be taken apart to check for hidden damage and then rebuilt. And repainted. I have no idea how this even happened.





:sad: I'm guessing it is going to be a long non-flying summer for me. I'm glad I had fun at Sun 'n Fun and at Gaston's. My photos will have to be enough for me for awhile. :sad:

I've fixed pretty much every squawk you've mentioned in the past 2 annuals on my Cherokee, did most of em' myself (except the mag rebuild) none were a big deal.
 
Shroud... is there a hole in the thing or is he saying it's not attached well anymore or something?

Duncan, Tom and others can comment, but the only adjustment I'm aware of is the cable and the door opening. I'd kinda want to know more on that one...

If the shroud has to be removed and repaired, that's a few hours labor but not hideous usually. One of the maybe higher dollar items on the list but only if your need or want a new one. Need photos. :)


No holes in the shroud itself... but it's broken at the attach points where the metal has worn out around the attachment holes. I might not need a whole new shroud, just reinforce the old one.


How much is it using? Where are they coming from besides the rocker box gasket?


It's using about 1 quart every 10 hours or so. The mechanic said he needed to clean up a lot of oil mess because of all the little leaks. He did mention there was a different kind of seal he could get that was better than the ones I had. Better material. Looking into that now.


On the leaks, you might ask what he recommends and see how open he is to giving you a solid estimate on pulling the rocker covers and replacing the gasket. Maybe defer it until winter when you're not flying the plane but let him hunt other leaks at the same time.

Or wait for info on the stabilator and other items if he's willing to defer the leak, just to see where the total bill is coming out to.

I've seen folks let oil leaks like that go for a while. Good mechanics will always want them found and stopped, that's the nature of a good mechanic. It may not have to be done right away, however. Depends on how bad it is and where it's going.


Tires. It happens. We did ours this year. We went with cheaper ones at the specific recommendation of the mechanic. (Plus he made us a nice deal on them.)

We'll see if that turns out to be smart or not. One landing with a brake on, it's genius. Perfect landings by three different pilots over many years, the more expensive tires make more sense. :)

I do feel a difference in the cheaper tires. They slid on the grass easier at Gaston's holding the brakes for the STOL takeoff and they obviously have weaker sidewalls... If you allow any side loads they "squish" a bit that direction. The Goodyear Flight III tires that were on there for longer than we've owned the aircraft never felt like that. So... Unless one of us bald spots a tire, the price difference will probably be a wash with replacing these sooner.

ELT: Does yours use D-cell style or something fancier and more expensive? Ours needed them this year too, and it wasn't that painful. We have D-style.


Old skool ELT for me also...


Battery box: Of all the things you listed, this is the one I like the least. Reason is... I want to know where the battery acid is coming from that's eating it and why. I want a good look around for corrosion. But if yours is an original, it's probably due. They're not hideously expensive, but they're overpriced for what they are. If the box is newer, and battery acid is eating it, I'd want to get a good look around it and make sure there's not other corrosion and get the area cleaned up well. Baking soda and water. All that jazz.


The mechanic mentioned he could get a steel box that was better than the old one I had. I think I will go ahead with that one.


We ran our battery six+ years and it was strong the whole time, but there was evidence of it leaking out the belly tube from our tail and we had to have the paint touched up where acid had blistered paint externally. Mechanic also cleaned up the box. Sealed battery is an option but our mechanic doesn't like them in aircraft that might sit for a few weeks once in a while in the dead of winter or that fly short flights. They discharge internally a little faster and they take a little longer to charge. He hasn't had good luck with them, but he does service the non-sealed properly each year. Some mechanics don't bother. And we weren't sure if some of the blisters weren't there previously from a previous battery's leak, but that's neither here nor there. Found and fixed.

Loose nuts and bolts. Cheap. Easy. No worries there. Some of our inspection fairing screws in the tail were working their way loose and disappearing. Mechanic had replaced a few for two years. We let him know that at least one was falling out on the trip home across town every year so it was time to upsize or do whatever to get them to stay put. 36 years of removing and replacing will do that.


It's fine. It's just a three decade plus old machine. Nothing above worries me too much or is a major surprise. It kinda sucks when they find a big list of piddly stuff all at once, but those are all pretty common on older airframes. And I truly believe some of that can be deferred if you must. Most of those aren't recurring problems either, so you'll be "good to go" for a while after all that.


I can't comment on that one, but it sounds like some qualified folks already disagree with the repair suggested. Might want a second opinion on it. Definitely a big bummer. To be honest, I don't remember seeing it at Gaston's when a number of us were helping tie down with your Claws. Wonder if you chucked a rock or something up into it on the takeoff roll on departure?


I'm thinking that might be a definite possibility. I'm going to try and get my insurance to help me pay for it. Can't hurt to try!



(Also have never had any experience with such damage or a repair for it before, but maybe it's something covered by insurance? Someone else may have thoughts on that.)

Your mechanic didn't just send his first kid off to college did he? ;) ;) ;) (Ducking... Duncan and Tom are going to kick me for that one.) Just kidding. Actually the list shows he's thorough.

Most of this list just looks like a lot of labor to me. How's your mechanic's labor rate? ;)


$60.00 per shop hour. Less expensive than the place I used last year. And a more reasonable flat rate to start too.



Nah... Just less shoe shopping this summer and maybe a second visit to the shop this winter for some leak hunting. ;) ;) ;)


WHAT??!! OK... maybe fewer shoes. But, I gotta have my pedicure time!


I'd chat with the mechanic about the order to do them in and estimates. He should understand that it's a "bigger than usual" squawk list and work with ya. None of that stuff should preclude a Ferry Permit if you don't like the answers other than the mag and perhaps the stabilator, and I doubt the stabilator would stop it.

Personally, I believe it's flyable to somewhere else if you're getting the impression you're getting shafted. I don't think you are, but if cash is tight, discuss with him.

Added up, it'll be a bit spendy, but nothing screams "OMG!" to me. Kinda depends on if your mechanic dawdles or over-bills on labor hours. Ours is good about not doing that. We've been surprised at some items being lower than expected. And he knows where to get parts and things that are good quality and "reasonable".



Thanks for your thoughts, Nate... maybe this whole thing will surprise me and work out before the leaves turn colors. I hope so. :rolleyes2:
 
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Duncan even assisted with some helpful comments -- for this dumb non-mechanic -- on mine at Gaston's. (I probably owe him a beverage for that... I learned something. Mainly that it's highly unlikely it was coming from where I thought it was.

Elementry my dear Nathan
 
No holes in the shroud itself... but it's broken at the attach points where the metal has worn out around the attachment holes. I might not need a whole new shroud, just reinforce the old one.






Thanks for your thoughts, Nate... maybe this whole thing will surprise me and work out before the leaves turn colors. I hope so. :rolleyes2:
He's $5 less than us per hour
 
From my experience in the past 2 years.

1. Right magneto needs overhauled... too much time on it.
-> I did both of mine, $1000 for both @500hrs in service..

2. Carb heat shroud broken/carb heat itself also needs adjustment.
-> These break, refurb from a welding shop is like $300 probably fixable with a piece of sheet metal and a rivet gun.

3. Dipstick housing gasket leaking.
-> What 50 cents and 5 minutes?

4. All rocker covers leaking.
-> Get the foam kind (not the cork) and don't over tighten them. They were like 5 bucks a piece IIRC. The cork ones, if baked on are a PITA to remove, just takes patience.

Apparently, the engine is very leaky in more than a few places... he said this is why it seems like I have been using more oil lately than in the past.

-> These can be a PITA to track down, after 2 years of chasing them down, I replaced the rocker arm cover gaskets, tightened the oil dip stick up and safety wired it, installed new oil cooler hoses, installed new hoses (i forget what they're called) but small hoses that drain oil off the top of the head. Rocker arm cover gaskets 20 bucks I think, $0 to tighten and safety wire the oil dip stick tube thing, oil cooler hoses $350 (replaced per AD), those small drain hoses were like $5. Doesn't leak a drop now.



And airframe issues:

1. Left main tire needs replaced.
->Consumable, $50-$100 bucks

2. ELT needs new battery.
-> I think mine was $20 for the narco battery.

3. Battery box cover broken/ Box itself corroded.
->Cherokeeaircraftsalvage.com I think there's an STC for a better box, I've seen more corrosion in battery boxes than not.

4. Missing static wicks need replaced.
-> I don't even have em.

5. LOTS of items involving loose nuts and bolts. Some are missing completely.
-> Bolts come loose, especially after being removed once a year for a few decades. My shop has a chest full of them, i just give them a count of what I took when done.
 
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My "good annuals" were a lot worse than that one.
 
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