The end of cars FSBO I guess?

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docmirror

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Cowboy - yeehah!
Been shopping for various cars for the past few weeks. I can negotiate with the best of them, and I prefer to buy from the prev owner direct. So, I've been calling around, and looking at the various places to buy. Gosh, very few people sell their own cars these days. I've been to fancy can lots, no commission places, dealers, mom-n-pop places, and only talked to one actual owner.

Do you like or dislike selling a used car? I'm guessing most people don't like it. I've sold used cars a dozen times in the past few years maybe because I'm cheap and don't want to lose my equity.

Cars.com is all dealer, autotrader.com mostly dealer, the only place I find by owner sometimes is craigslist.

Another thing that sets me apart from the masses I guess.
 
Select by private party only rather than all. That said, I haven't sold a car or truck I've owned since 1995. I've traded them in on new vehicle purchases - all of two times since then.
 
I have, but these days it's hardly worth the hassle, time, and risk. If the vehicle is pretty well used, you might as well sell it to CarMax or one of the other "we buy cars" places and let them deal with it. No, you won't max out your value, but you will avoid a lot of hassle. Went that route with my last SUV that had 120K miles. Too many scammers on Craig's list, and putting it in the driveway or parking it on the street is against zoning codes in many places.

What I will NOT do again is donate to one of the local charities. Even though it was supposed to be "hassle free", it was far more work than taking it to CarMax and yielded the same valuation. Wasn't worth much tax-wise.
 
I sold my Jeep in a couple days several years back through CL. Before then my wife's Saab. Before then her Honda on eBay. Sold my cream-puff Suzuki Boulevard and my Kawasaki monster bike FSBO come to think of it.
 
I used to sell my own but am no longer interested in the hassle.
Money, I can make more of; time, not so much.
 
EdFred said:
Select by private party only rather than all. That said, I haven't sold a car or truck I've owned since 1995. I've traded them in on new vehicle purchases - all of two times since then.
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Oh, I can winnow it down to sale by owner, but a lot of the style, and features I want in a car don't come up often enough by owner. Pretty much all I see in my desired list is at a car lot, or 1000s of miles away.
 
I admit, I had a little hassle with the Ford Focus. It was rock bottom price, and there was a no-show, and a gal who wanted it basically for free. But for a run of the mill, basic trans, decent car, I have had very little trouble. Just sold a Mini Cooper a few weeks ago, and the second guy that came by bought it. We haggled a little, and he went away happy, I was happy with my cash. I guess my life isn't so full of excitement, and drama every waking minute that I can't devote an hour or two in car sales.

Like I said, different.
 
I sell them myself, even if I don't like the experience. That's because I dislike car dealers even more -- I always feel like I need to shower immediately after doing business with a car dealer.

CarMax sounds like it would be a better experience, but the nearest one is two hours away.
 
I don't mind selling my own. I usually use Craig's List, and I've found the secret is to write extremely honest, detailed listings with plenty of pictures, highlighting both the good and the bad. That weeds out people who are turned off by one thing or the other.

The last listing I posted was so detailed that my family thought I was nuts. I even mentioned the mouse nest I removed from the HVAC duct. It also had whatever the limit is on how many pictures you're allowed, taken from every angle including underneath. I was careful to show the best and the worst things about the car, and I priced it fairly. It sold right away to the second caller. (The first never showed up.) I've used the same strategy to sell everything from used cell phones, to aquarium tanks, to snow tires.

Asking for a reasonable price is also helpful. Too many CL sellers of stuff in general, not just cars, have unrealistic ideas of how much their stuff is worth. People try to get new prices for used stuff. It's bizarre.

Rich
 
I have never traded a vehicle in, always sold them myself (although I scrapped a few). My BMW Z4 that I bought in February or so is only the 3rd vehicle I bought from a dealer (one of the 3 was new). I've owned something north of 30 vehicles, I think north of 40 now, so that's a pretty low percentage.

I do hate selling vehicles (or things in general), though, mainly because I'm a serious buyer and most people are not. Ourn ew house came with some appliances that we don't want/need, so I'm selling them on CraigsList. I can't tell you how many eMails I get from people who say "I'm ready to pick it up today!" but don't have a truck available. But I have been getting asking price (I've been pricing these items very reasonably).

I suspect that you are just seeing fewer and fewer people (at least who have the vehicles you want to buy) care to deal with the hassle of selling vehicles themselves. Easier to just trade it in and let the dealers make their money.
 
Haven't sold one in ages.

We drive them until they blow up then they get parked out at the farm and scavenged.
 
There seems to be a sweet spot for FSBO cars. I think it's about 2nd or third owner, i.e., 75k miles to 150k.

Less than 75k, private sellers seem to want to ask dealer retail (probably because that's how much they have left on the loan). As a seller, there are relatively fewer buyers because most folks want to finance, and private sale financing is more complicated. To make matters worse, you tend to get the best trade-in value on <50k cars because the dealer can sell on their lot, rather than auctioning it off at wholesale. As a result, the benefit of privately selling a late model, low mileage car just isn't there.
 
I like selling things. Rich has an excellent "business" model, detailed listings with lots of pictures.
 
wsuffa said:
What I will NOT do again is donate to one of the local charities. Even though it was supposed to be "hassle free", it was far more work than taking it to CarMax and yielded the same valuation. Wasn't worth much tax-wise.
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There is a charity "heritage for the blind ?" that will pick it up, all you have to do is call them.
 
teejayevans said:
There is a charity "heritage for the blind ?" that will pick it up, all you have to do is call them.
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The charity I donated to also "picked it up, all I had to do was call". Except they didn't come when promised, then 2 calls later when the truck showed up he had no idea how to handle the title. And he had to unload all the other cars to put it on the vehicle carrier.

And then took over a month to get the donation/valuation letter to me with the wrong date on it (almost into the next tax year).

Seriously, it would have been far less hassle to sell it on Craig's list.
 
wsuffa said:
The charity I donated to also "picked it up, all I had to do was call". Except they didn't come when promised, then 2 calls later when the truck showed up he had no idea how to handle the title. And he had to unload all the other cars to put it on the vehicle carrier.

And then took over a month to get the donation/valuation letter to me with the wrong date on it (almost into the next tax year).

Seriously, it would have been far less hassle to sell it on Craig's list.
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I know of a charity that takes cars and is much more friendly to deal with. ;)
 
I have no desire to go through the hassle of listing a vehicle, taking calls, and negotiating. I have sold several to private parties but they were people I knew. One was from POA when I jokingly said I would sell my Jeep. I did sell a motorcycle to a stranger but that was because he saw it in the corner when I was having a garage sale and asked if it was also for sale. I responded, "It could be..."

I once thought about donating a car to a charity but I donated it to a friend instead.
 
RJM62 said:
I don't mind selling my own. I usually use Craig's List, and I've found the secret is to write extremely honest, detailed listings with plenty of pictures, highlighting both the good and the bad. That weeds out people who are turned off by one thing or the other....
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That makes a lot of sense!

Reminds me of the exaggeration and ten or fifteen year old pictures in some online dating site listings I've seen. People who do that must enjoy having nothing but first dates. ;)
 
If people kept up the maintenance on their cars the same as airplanes, we would all still be driving 40 year old cars.... Oh wait, I do have a '70 Chevy pickup... :lol::lol::lol:

Its funny to me here in Homer, Ak, the number of old hippies that have spent 10s of thousands of dollars on their old 60s and early 70s VW bugs and vans.

Classic hippie status symbol I guess....along with the tie dye shirts, bell bottom blue jeans, wide leather belts and "capitalism is bad.... look at how diversified my stock portfolio is..." Sometimes I feel as if I fell through a time warp and into 1969. :eek:

Far out, man.... peace brother..... groovy, man.... Daves not here man.... Thank God we live in a country where you are free to be yourself.
 
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docmirror said:
I admit, I had a little hassle with the Ford Focus. It was rock bottom price, and there was a no-show, and a gal who wanted it basically for free. But for a run of the mill, basic trans, decent car, I have had very little trouble. Just sold a Mini Cooper a few weeks ago, and the second guy that came by bought it. We haggled a little, and he went away happy, I was happy with my cash. I guess my life isn't so full of excitement, and drama every waking minute that I can't devote an hour or two in car sales.

Like I said, different.
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I sold mine on Craigslist as well. I could have sold five of them if I'd had them.

It's worth doing on a lower priced car. The dealer offered me $1000, I sold it for $2700. If you have a more valuable car and are going to buy a new one to replace it, the amount your get discounted from your sales tax covers a large portion of what you'd save by selling it yourself.
 
Zeldman said:
...Its funny to me here in Homer, Ak, the number of old hippies that have spent 10s of thousands of dollars on their old 60s and early 70s VW bugs and vans...
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Some people just like them. I wish I still had one.
 
CarMax has made the selling experience so easy and fair, there's almost no reason to bother with listing it, waiting for no shows and idiots, going on test drives with complete strangers, etc. I've sold three vehicles to CarMax, and I'd do it again if I didn't have a tax reason to do a trade-in.
 
I've sold a few cars but I generally trade them now. Georgia used to have no sales tax with personal sales but that changed a few years ago. No advantage to buyers to buy from an individual now as far as pricing goes.
 
FormerHangie said:
I sold mine on Craigslist as well. I could have sold five of them if I'd had them.

It's worth doing on a lower priced car. The dealer offered me $1000, I sold it for $2700. If you have a more valuable car and are going to buy a new one to replace it, the amount your get discounted from your sales tax covers a large portion of what you'd save by selling it yourself.
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Exactly! I got a trade offer on my Focus of $1250 on purchase of a new Prius. I sold it for $2200.
 
I sold my BMW on CL the very day I put up the ad. Then My Mercedes sold within 3 days on CL. Both times, the first caller, came and paid my price. But as said before, Be honest with the ad, both good, and bad, with plenty of pics.
 
I had people ****ed that I sold my truck on Craigslist at asking price "before they could get there to check it out".
 
docmirror said:
Exactly! I got a trade offer on my Focus of $1250 on purchase of a new Prius. I sold it for $2200.
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The lower end vehicles are just going to be sent to a wholesale auction, so you aren't going to do as well. The ones they can sell themselves are going to be better. Still, sometimes you have to ask yourself how much effort $1k is worth. Like others here, I would probably trade it in.
 
John221us said:
The lower end vehicles are just going to be sent to a wholesale auction, so you aren't going to do as well. The ones they can sell themselves are going to be better. Still, sometimes you have to ask yourself how much effort $1k is worth. Like others here, I would probably trade it in.
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Ok, I'm sitting in my barcalounger adding this up. Lets say a guy makes $100k/year, that works out to roughly $50/hour. The avoided cost of trade in is $1000. It takes me about 2-3 hours to prep a car for sale, put some of the goo on the outside rubber, clean carpets, seats, get the junk out, wash and a light wax. Maybe I pay for new wipers, and a new pair of tires just for giggles. Including materials I'm ready to sell for ~$200. I place the ad, answer a few texts, show it twice, include one no-show and sell it.

Total time invested, to be generous is 6 hours. I've had to put $200 in it for prep, so I'm down to $800 gain. If I 'worked' for 6 full hours on the deal(that's pretty high to be honest), I'm making $133/hour, or well over double my wage. So, if a guy got off POA for maybe 2 hours a day and sold his car, he would miss three whole days of BS on this website and be $800 ahead.

Potayto - potahto I guess. Me - I like $800. That's almost 30 hours of plane fuel. Yeah - babeeeee.
 
Well, my current bill rate is $200. On top of that, I work 60 to 70 hours a week (I bill 50 to the full 70, depending on travel, but I travel 50 to 70%). So, time is my most precious commodity (as mentioned above). Then add on top of that the risk involved in craigslist. For $1k, I'm not going to bother, just like I don't mow my own lawn and I have a housekeeper. They aren't frivolous luxuries. I wouldn't have any off time if I didn't do that.
 
docmirror said:
Ok, I'm sitting in my barcalounger adding this up. Lets say a guy makes $100k/year, that works out to roughly $50/hour. The avoided cost of trade in is $1000. It takes me about 2-3 hours to prep a car for sale, put some of the goo on the outside rubber, clean carpets, seats, get the junk out, wash and a light wax. Maybe I pay for new wipers, and a new pair of tires just for giggles. Including materials I'm ready to sell for ~$200. I place the ad, answer a few texts, show it twice, include one no-show and sell it.

Total time invested, to be generous is 6 hours. I've had to put $200 in it for prep, so I'm down to $800 gain. If I 'worked' for 6 full hours on the deal(that's pretty high to be honest), I'm making $133/hour, or well over double my wage. So, if a guy got off POA for maybe 2 hours a day and sold his car, he would miss three whole days of BS on this website and be $800 ahead.

Potayto - potahto I guess. Me - I like $800. That's almost 30 hours of plane fuel. Yeah - babeeeee.
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Likewise. I put new brake shoes on the rear and detailed it, and spent about two hours listing it and showing it, for a total of six hours, and the net financial gain was more than $1500. Instead of that, I could have worked for six more hours, for a net gain of exactly zero, since I'm on salary. I'll take the $250 per hour.

When we traded my wife's car, it's value was closer to $9000, so the tax savings made it worthwhile, plus I didn't have to deal with selling a vehicle that the owner probably would be getting a loan for.
 
John221us said:
Well, my current bill rate is $200. On top of that, I work 60 to 70 hours a week (I bill 50 to the full 70, depending on travel, but I travel 50 to 70%). So, time is my most precious commodity (as mentioned above). Then add on top of that the risk involved in craigslist. For $1k, I'm not going to bother, just like I don't mow my own lawn and I have a housekeeper. They aren't frivolous luxuries. I wouldn't have any off time if I didn't do that.
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That was the point of my potayto, potahto claim. If you want to work 60-70 hours a week, it's your call. I bill at $375/hour min 2 hours plus travel. But - I sure don't put in 60-70 hours a week. More like 25-ish.
 
docmirror said:
That was the point of my potayto, potahto claim. If you want to work 60-70 hours a week, it's your call. I bill at $375/hour min 2 hours plus travel. But - I sure don't put in 60-70 hours a week. More like 25-ish.
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I don't really want to, but this thing will probably run until the end of the year and they don't pay travel time (unless I am billing on the plane, which happens). But, as a business owner, even when I don't bill this much, I am working to keep 15 to 20 other people billing, so it really is the same thing. In other times I have worked less, but probably always at least 40. I don't mind the hours so much, but my down time is valuable.
 
The used car market was irretrievably altered with the staggeringly-bad "cash for clunkers" program (which, by the way, by definition actually excluded "clunkers," since cars traded in under the program had to be road-legal).

A huge quantity of, mostly, good solid used cars were destroyed, including, most amazingly, the purposeful destruction of running engines which could have been used to extend the life of other vehicles.

Still one of the most offensive bits of public policy, and wastes of public money, I have ever observed. It removed a huge quantity of good, roadable cars from the inventory, and I'm not sure the used car market will ever be the same again.
 
Brad Z said:
There seems to be a sweet spot for FSBO cars. I think it's about 2nd or third owner, i.e., 75k miles to 150k.

Less than 75k, private sellers seem to want to ask dealer retail (probably because that's how much they have left on the loan). As a seller, there are relatively fewer buyers because most folks want to finance, and private sale financing is more complicated. To make matters worse, you tend to get the best trade-in value on <50k cars because the dealer can sell on their lot, rather than auctioning it off at wholesale. As a result, the benefit of privately selling a late model, low mileage car just isn't there.
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On the subject of financing...

My credit union does offer financing for private sales. They make it especially easy if the buyer or seller is already a member. They may (or may not) want the car looked at by a local mechanic first, but that's about all. In my case they didn't bother. I just showed them my OCD-worthy maintenance records, and they said they'd approve financing if a buyer joined the CU ($5.00 fee) and had halfway-decent credit.

They'll also issue the check to the buyer, seller, or both, or act as an escrow agent. They really make it easy.

Rich
 
The cars traded in during the Cash for Clunkers program had to have a value of less than $4500, that was 6 years, most of what we got traded in were pretty much just old sleds. But, assuming that a lot of good cars were scrapped, a $4000 car from 2009 would be pretty much worthless today. :D While it really put a hurt on the low end buyer and buy here-pay here lots for a couple years I get plenty of high mileage junk traded in today! ;)
FSBO works best on used cars below $5-7K, at least in Georgia, you pay tax on the trade difference, so a $10K trade saves you $700 in tax. If you sell it your self for $11,000 the buyer still has to pay the 7% tax when he titles it. CarMax is a good source to sell a used car, they normally will pay top dollar because they sell at one price and they usually price at the very upper end of the market. Their advantage is the huge network of vehicles they have all over the country.

SCCutler said:
The used car market was irretrievably altered with the staggeringly-bad "cash for clunkers" program (which, by the way, by definition actually excluded "clunkers," since cars traded in under the program had to be road-legal).

A huge quantity of, mostly, good solid used cars were destroyed, including, most amazingly, the purposeful destruction of running engines which could have been used to extend the life of other vehicles.

Still one of the most offensive bits of public policy, and wastes of public money, I have ever observed. It removed a huge quantity of good, roadable cars from the inventory, and I'm not sure the used car market will ever be the same again.
Click to expand...
 
OK, so I went into a small dealer a few hours ago. Pretty truck, well detailed. We take a ride. It's got a noise in the rear diff. Steering wanders a bit. Go back to the dealer and OMFG! The rear diff carrier and axle is drooling with fluid. Shaft twist is pretty gross from D to R. It's got a serious pinion shaft leak. Front tie rods are perished, upper ball joints are pretty loose but it's got a pair of fancy Rough Country shocks on it!

I tell the dealer I'm a buyer at $14k. He's asking 15,995. I have to repl the pinion bearings, and the seal, and do the front end. My cost for parts alone is $800.

Private buyer would prolly say, 'gee I didn't know that, ok I'll take $14k as is'.
Used car dealer: 'Well, it's a used truck, we've already discounted the price for various wear items. I'll sell it for $15-5.'

So, I can't find the truck, with the features I want, anywhere in 1000 mile radius that is FSBO. There just aren't any. Everything is used car lot. Dealer offered to have the pinion shaft seal only replaced. Nevermind the bearing whine. So, I"m more or less stuck buying what is available in the market. If I wait for a private seller I may be waiting a long time. Need a truck soon.
 
The last two cars I tried FSBO were a pain. One finaly sold and the second one I pulled off the market and drove for several more years until I traded it in last year.

I also work a lot of hours and am away from home enough that I don't want people coming to my house. It is just not worth the hassel to me.

I get a front row see to the action anyway. The people arcross the street buy and sell used cars and (and shop flee markets). Every Saturday, there is a non stop stream of the Craigs list crowd all over the place. They always have 2 or 3 cars & 4 wheelers for sale. I don't even like leaving my garage doors open. Some of these people look like there planning thier next midnight shopping trip.
 
Small dealer called me at 4:15: "If you want the truck as is, we can do 14-5. I said nope, 14 out the door. He called at 4:40 and said ok but it has to be done tonight, they are closing the month and want one more sale this month.

I got it for 14k, but they jacked me for $67 in temp tags for transfer. Now I get to do the pinion bearings and seal in my driveway. Oh fun. But - otherwise it's a very nice truck.
 
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