The craziest of hypotheticals (aka, i'm still reading the FAR)

[MIFlyer]

So, after I get my PPL, if I decide to buy an Aztec on the other side of the country (2,300 NM from my home base).

If I fly my CFII out to fly back with me, can that 11-12 hours of flight time get me my AMEL endorsement? (I'd assume yes if I could get all the maneuvers in while doing lots of straight and level to get us home).

ALSO, could that time count as simulated (or real) instrument, if I was under foggles, navigating my instrument for certain legs of the trip?

I'd also get my HP and Complex stamps, but those are kind of gimme's from what I can tell.

 

[BigBadLou]

Clarification: multi is not an endorsement, it is a new rating that will require a checkride.
If your CFII is also an MEI, you can log the dual on the trip back. You can also log XC, (sim)IMC, complex and high-perf.
Will they be equal to actual training hours? Surely not. But yes, you can log it.

 

[hook_dupin]

So, after I get my PPL, if I decide to buy an Aztec on the other side of the country (2,300 NM from my home base).

If I fly my CFII out to fly back with me, can that 11-12 hours of flight time get me my AMEL endorsement? (I'd assume yes if I could get all the maneuvers in while doing lots of straight and level to get us home).

ALSO, could that time count as simulated (or real) instrument, if I was under foggles, navigating my instrument for certain legs of the trip?

I'd also get my HP and Complex stamps, but those are kind of gimme's from what I can tell.

You could probably get the AMEL work all done. That said, I think it'd be more efficient to get the HP/complex work done, then spend the rest of the time under the foggles.

The multi rating is all about "can you fly it safely single engine?"

 

[bobmrg]

So, after I get my PPL, if I decide to buy an Aztec on the other side of the country (2,300 NM from my home base).

If I fly my CFII out to fly back with me, can that 11-12 hours of flight time get me my AMEL endorsement? (I'd assume yes if I could get all the maneuvers in while doing lots of straight and level to get us home).

ALSO, could that time count as simulated (or real) instrument, if I was under foggles, navigating my instrument for certain legs of the trip?

I'd also get my HP and Complex stamps, but those are kind of gimme's from what I can tell.

I flew commercial to the Piper factory at Williamsport with a guy who had just purchased a Seneca. By the time we got back to Seattle he was ready for his checkride.

Bob Gardner

 

[old cfi]

Assume your PPL will be SEL. Unless your CFII is also multi rated or an MEI you need someone else to fly the plane. If he/she is CFII, MEI then you can work on the MEL PTS and also log any instrument (hood or actual). The multi rating, however, is a lot more than climbs, descents, straight & level (you get the picture). Single engine and VMC is the crunch of the multi rating. And then there's the instrument rating ME - more single engine approaches. Have fun.

 

[MIFlyer]

I flew commercial to the Piper factory at Williamsport with a guy who had just purchased a Seneca. By the time we got back to Seattle he was ready for his checkride.

Bob Gardner

Maybe I'll convince you to do it again in a year or two Won't be for a new on though, they're pricey!

 

[MIFlyer]

Assume your PPL will be SEL. Unless your CFII is also multi rated or an MEI you need someone else to fly the plane. If he/she is CFII, MEI then you can work on the MEL PTS and also log any instrument (hood or actual). The multi rating, however, is a lot more than climbs, descents, straight & level (you get the picture). Single engine and VMC is the crunch of the multi rating. And then there's the instrument rating ME - more single engine approaches. Have fun.

He's a CFI ASEL and MEL

He also hold commercial and instrument pilot priviledges, but I'm unsure if he is CFII or not yet. I would suspect yes, as he's instructing full time.

I'm pursuing ASEL, but intend to get HP, Complex and IFR for sure in the future. Multi I"d only got if i ended up buying one.


If you knew you'd want to eventually fly a Cherokee 6 or an Aztec as your family plane in the PNW, what order would you go about tackling these things.

Is it easier to get the IR in a single and then add MEL later, or easier to get MEL and add on IR?

I'm asking both about "ease of passing the checkride" and "ease to actually learn the stuff well enough to not die".

 

[James331]

If your going to buy this plane, could you do your initial PPL in it, sure, could you get some flight training done on your way home, sure, your PPL might take a little longer, but you'd have to transition anyway, so heck, go for it. Most of these little twins ain't exactly fire breathing dragons.

But you really better have a good CFI for your training, not many of the low time timbuilder CFIs folks are great at doing things outside of the norm, this mission screams out high time freelance CFI.


Get on this group and ask around to find a good CFI for ab initio / ferry flight training in this twin you're thinking of picking up.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/FLightsAboveThePNW/

 

[flyingron]

If you have the plane and you're insurance company is willing, then I'd start flying the ME as soon as possible. There's no real disadvantage other than it might take a few hours more and you're going to burn a lot of fuel. However, you'd be building a lot of ME time which will help you in the long run on your insurance.

Same thing with your IR. The only thing added to the multi and IR thing is the requirement to fly a single engine approach on the checkride.

If you get the multi first, going back and adding a SE class rating is pretty easy.

 

[Captain]

I flew commercial to the Piper factory at Williamsport with a guy who had just purchased a Seneca. By the time we got back to Seattle he was ready for his checkride.

Bob Gardner

My understanding is the Piper factory in in Vero Beach, Florida.

 

[Captain]

If you have the plane and you're insurance company is willing, then I'd start flying the ME as soon as possible. There's no real disadvantage other than it might take a few hours more and you're going to burn a lot of fuel. However, you'd be building a lot of ME time which will help you in the long run on your insurance.

Same thing with your IR. The only thing added to the multi and IR thing is the requirement to fly a single engine approach on the checkride.

If you get the multi first, going back and adding a SE class rating is pretty easy.

If you get your IR in a multi it is good in ME and SE. There is no requirement to get an SE addon for the instrument rating.

 

[sferguson524]

If you get your IR in a multi it is good in ME and SE. There is no requirement to get an SE addon for the instrument rating.

I think he meant for the private pilot certificate. My understanding is if the initial is done in a multi, then a SE add-on ride is necessary

 

[bobmrg]

My understanding is the Piper factory in in Vero Beach, Florida.

You young guys!!! I ferried Cherokees from Vero Beach to Seattle many times, so I'm well aware that Piper has a factory there. Back in the day, they built twins in Williamsport (Lock Haven), PA and the corporate headquarters were there.

"Piper Aviation Museum Lock Haven
The Piper Aircraft Corporation, which maintained its headquarters in Lock Haven from 1937 until its closing in 1984, is well known for its “Cub” and for a series of aircraft bearing Native American names such as Aztec, Cherokee, Cheyenne, Comanche, Navajo, and Pawnee. Piper Aircraft Corporation grew to become the world’s leading producer of general aviation aircraft. Each year, a special "fly-in" event is held for Piper enthusiasts and pilots to share in their enjoyment of the iconic aircraft."

The trip I described took place in the mid-1970s.

Some day you will be old, too.

Bob

 

[Captain]

You young guys!!! I ferried Cherokees from Vero Beach to Seattle many times, so I'm well aware that Piper has a factory there. Back in the day, they built twins in Williamsport (Lock Haven), PA and the corporate headquarters were there.

"Piper Aviation Museum Lock Haven
The Piper Aircraft Corporation, which maintained its headquarters in Lock Haven from 1937 until its closing in 1984, is well known for its “Cub” and for a series of aircraft bearing Native American names such as Aztec, Cherokee, Cheyenne, Comanche, Navajo, and Pawnee. Piper Aircraft Corporation grew to become the world’s leading producer of general aviation aircraft. Each year, a special "fly-in" event is held for Piper enthusiasts and pilots to share in their enjoyment of the iconic aircraft."

The trip I described took place in the mid-1970s.

Some day you will be old, too.

Bob

I did not know that, thx!

 

[BillTIZ]

You young guys!!! I ferried Cherokees from Vero Beach to Seattle many times, so I'm well aware that Piper has a factory there. Back in the day, they built twins in Williamsport (Lock Haven), PA and the corporate headquarters were there.

"Piper Aviation Museum Lock Haven
The Piper Aircraft Corporation, which maintained its headquarters in Lock Haven from 1937 until its closing in 1984, is well known for its “Cub” and for a series of aircraft bearing Native American names such as Aztec, Cherokee, Cheyenne, Comanche, Navajo, and Pawnee. Piper Aircraft Corporation grew to become the world’s leading producer of general aviation aircraft. Each year, a special "fly-in" event is held for Piper enthusiasts and pilots to share in their enjoyment of the iconic aircraft."

The trip I described took place in the mid-1970s.

Some day you will be old, too.

Bob

Perfect answer!

I am old enough to know what you were talking about.