That's a funny looking Arrow...

Did you read the description?

N9751J. 1967 PA-28-180, 3977TT, Garmin GPS 100 (INOP), King KX155 Com/Nav 1, VAL Com 760 Com 2, Narco AT150 Xpdr, Sigtronics Transcom 2 Portable Intercom (In Box), Wheel Pants, Hobbs Meter.
Retractable wheel pants
 
You can tell from the window configuration that this is a Piper Cherokee, not an Arrow. Even says Cherokee on the engine cowling. The PA-28-180 is also the short body. Wheel Pants would be a bit cumbersome (!) on the retract. You are right, this ain't an Arrow.
 
The registration to current owner was issued 21 July 2017, so he/she (Kelly is one of those gender neutral names) owned it less than a year.
 
You can tell from the window configuration that this is a Piper Cherokee, not an Arrow. Even says Cherokee on the engine cowling. The PA-28-180 is also the short body. Wheel Pants would be a bit cumbersome (!) on the retract. You are right, this ain't an Arrow.
Exactly. Sad thing is someone is paying a broker good money to sell that bird.
 
The registration to current owner was issued 21 July 2017, so he/she (Kelly is one of those gender neutral names) owned it less than a year.
They're trying to sell their Arrow because it has major gear issues and they're hoping to pass it on to the next unsuspecting customer? :loco:
 
The registration to current owner was issued 21 July 2017, so he/she (Kelly is one of those gender neutral names) owned it less than a year.



Ownership History: This aircraft was owned by a gentleman in northern Illinois for the last few years, he flew it for his private license and we acquired this aircraft on a trade when he upgraded to a bigger faster airplane.
 
You can tell from the window configuration that this is a Piper Cherokee, not an Arrow. Even says Cherokee on the engine cowling. The PA-28-180 is also the short body. Wheel Pants would be a bit cumbersome (!) on the retract. You are right, this ain't an Arrow.
This is a '67, one of the last of the Cherokee 'C's (1964-67).

Screen Shot 2018-06-23 at 10.10.51 AM.png

The next model, Cherokee 'D' (1968-69), had the third window (and new panel and floor-mounted trim wheel), just like the early Cherokee Arrow.

Screen Shot 2018-06-23 at 10.11.03 AM.png

Cherokee Arrows built from '67 through '71 had the same "short-body" as the fixed-gear models.

Screen Shot 2018-06-23 at 10.12.33 AM.png
 
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Ownership History: This aircraft was owned by a gentleman in northern Illinois for the last few years, he flew it for his private license and we acquired this aircraft on a trade when he upgraded to a bigger faster airplane.
Something's fishy.

Registration history shows it was owned by Leon H. Kimberlin in Sandusky Ohio from 2 June 2006, and was owned by Kelly Hicks in Sublette Illinois from 21 July 2017. The Illinois owner had it for less than a year, not "the last few years." I suppose there's some other explanation, but the broker's story doesn't make sense as written.
 
Reminds me of some of the customers I encounter at the auto salvage yard.

Many of them only know that it has some doors, wheels, and if they are lucky, where to put the fuel.

One customer drove up, and I could see the Chevy bow tie through window. When they camp me to the counter, they wanted an AC compressor for a 2003 Chevy.

I asked which specific Chevy, and they had no clue.

I directed them to go to the back of the car and look for the badge that said which Chevy.

Customer went out, looked, came back and announced, “It’s a Hudiberg”

Now that confused me so I went to look myself. It was a Malibu from Hudiberg Chevrolet


Other times, I just want to shake my head and recite Bill Engvall’s mantra
 
Wow now that’s a basic panel for a “complex” airplane.:D:D:D:D Just a simple typo perhaps???
 
I have a official Piper manual that says "Cherokee Arrow". Apparently, "Arrow" used to be a trim level to an airplane family known as "Cherokee". Given this confusing history, it's probably broker screwing it up. It's much too obvious that it's not what is commonly understood as Arrow, so he's not fooling anyone.
 
Something's fishy.

Registration history shows it was owned by Leon H. Kimberlin in Sandusky Ohio from 2 June 2006, and was owned by Kelly Hicks in Sublette Illinois from 21 July 2017. The Illinois owner had it for less than a year, not "the last few years." I suppose there's some other explanation, but the broker's story doesn't make sense as written.

It's a broker story, dont try to match it with 'facts'. Every plane has been in a 'dry climate' and was flown by a professional crew of two.

Sometimes the manufacturer creates the confusion. This week I looked at a Cessna 340A.

Huh.jpg



(Based on the generic label, I suspect it is a replacement. Whoever had the little number punches just didn't pay attention)
 
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Exactly. Sad thing is someone is paying a broker good money to sell that bird.

AOS is not a broker. They are resellers. They buy the plane outright, from motivated sellers and try to resell at a profit.
 
Reminds me of some of the customers ....

Last Friday I was at a Nissan dealership for an oil change and while waiting for my wife to pick me up to go get lunch a young blonde sales lady approached me. Chit chatted a bit, told her I wasn’t interested in buying at the moment but she was pleasant enough so I kinda rolled with it. Then she asks me what I drive currently and I tell her a Camry.

She looks at me sideways and says I’m new here, what’s that? So I point to one of their Altimas and tell her it’s basically one of those.

Out of curiosity I asked her what brought her to selling cars. She said her last job was selling gym memberships but wasn’t making enough money. Being polite I didn’t add on some sort of “good luck, you’re going to need it” line.
 
Last Friday I was at a Nissan dealership for an oil change and while waiting for my wife to pick me up to go get lunch a young blonde sales lady approached me. Chit chatted a bit, told her I wasn’t interested in buying at the moment but she was pleasant enough so I kinda rolled with it. Then she asks me what I drive currently and I tell her a Camry.

She looks at me sideways and says I’m new here, what’s that? So I point to one of their Altimas and tell her it’s basically one of those.

Out of curiosity I asked her what brought her to selling cars. She said her last job was selling gym memberships but wasn’t making enough money. Being polite I didn’t add on some sort of “good luck, you’re going to need it” line.

20 years from now we'll chuckle if someone mentions that you used to have to go to something called a 'dealership' to buy a car.
 
20 years from now we'll chuckle if someone mentions that you used to have to go to something called a 'dealership' to buy a car.

In 20 years you will be able to browse online for the car you want. Internal diagnostics will send you a self-report on any potential issues, and upon payment it well self-drive right to your doorstep.
 
A minor flaw in the presentation. Anyone looking for an arrow would know that right away. The early short body arrows did come with a 180 hp motor.
 
I have a official Piper manual that says "Cherokee Arrow". Apparently, "Arrow" used to be a trim level to an airplane family known as "Cherokee".
Through the 1977 model year, all PA-28, PA-28R, PA-32 and PA-32R variants were "Cherokees" -- e.g., Cherokee Warrior, Cherokee Archer, Cherokee Arrow. It was in all the brochures, manuals, advertising, and painted somewhere on the airfame -- even the PA-32R-300 Cherokee Lance.

In 1978 the Cherokee name was dropped on all models except the PA-32-260/300 Cherokee Six. For the 1979 model year it too shed its war paint (and the 260 hp option) and became simply "Piper Six 300."
 
20 years from now we'll chuckle if someone mentions that you used to have to go to something called a 'dealership' to buy a car.

I think I first heard that line 20 years ago...
 
Never seen an IFR capable airframe with this poor avionics. A second compass where the AI belongs? What poor maintenance history this thing must have had.
 
I think I first heard that line 20 years ago...

When Tesla was a unit of measurement and Google was a word on a draft of articles of organization on some desk in Menlo Park.
 
20 years from now we'll chuckle if someone mentions that you used to have to go to something called a 'dealership' to buy a car.

The manufacturers don’t need dealerships now to SELL cars, they need them for parts and service. My belief is in a day to come there will be “ServiceCenters” for the manufacturers, but you will buy online.
 
The manufacturers don’t need dealerships now to SELL cars, they need them for parts and service. My belief is in a day to come there will be “ServiceCenters” for the manufacturers, but you will buy online.

Bingo.

New car sales don't make much money for the dealerships. It's the Service Dept and used car sales that generate the overwhelming majority of the margin.

You can "build your new car" online now. But it's the folks at the dealership that deliver it to you, and deal with your trade-in if you don't want the hassle of selling it yourself.
 
When Tesla was a unit of measurement...

Instead of a cash burning, perpetual loss making vehicle manufacturer trying to make "a more affordable electric car" in the Bay Area of California, the absolute highest cost place on earth to run an assembly line?

Tesla will soon enough once again be a unit of measurement. ;)
 
The manufacturers don’t need dealerships now to SELL cars, they need them for parts and service. My belief is in a day to come there will be “ServiceCenters” for the manufacturers, but you will buy online.

They need dealerships because many states require it.

But yeah, you'll order online and the 'car' drives itself into your driveway. If something breaks, it drives itself to a warehouse somewhere to get the failed LRU or battery replaced. If it can't legally drive itself (bird poop on the sensors) an autonomous tow truck (sans the tattooed ex-con operator) comes to drop off the loaner and pick up the disabled vehicle. It just deducts the amount due from your Bitcoin account.
 
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20 years from now we'll chuckle if someone mentions that you used to have to go to something called a 'dealership' to buy a car.

Our last new car I found the two dealerships who had the exact vehicle in stock, and sent each a fax. They have no idea what to do with a fax, so one ignored it, the other had the Internet Sales guy call me back in just a few minutes and say he needed $80 to make the deal I offered.

I never talked to a lot lizard once. Well I did... long enough to say “we’re here to pick up a car we bought” which confused one of them. The other said he’d let the manager know we were there.

On our next vehicle, I had to talk to a lot lizard because I needed to see the used vehicle we were buying and negotiate a trade in. Still only took a few minutes for the actual deal to be made. “If you can do that truck at X and take our VW in trade at Y, I’ll sign paperwork.”

Then they wanted to fiddle around with a loan... “well I was going to write a check, but do you guys get a kickback on the loans?” Answer was yes, the lot lizard would make $500 if we had a loan and kept it for three months. “Do the loan paperwork while you have the truck prepped.”

The prep took a little while but a storage facility right across the street literally blew up, so we has some entertainment while we waited. Flames, fire trucks, sirens... made the 20 minutes go by much faster. :)

The fax thing with a written offer works pretty good though. Know your numbers and send em... that negotiation was done in one return phone call for $80. I always thought that was funny. Computer would have rejected the deal at $80 less. Hahaha. I could have pushed that one, but no point. Not on a brand new vehicle.

Faxes went out on Wednesday and we had the deal set by less than an hour later. Picked it up Saturday morning. (It was a dealership 100 miles or more from home.)
 
My dealer buddy tells me cars are already coming without oil drain plugs, and soon the dipstick will go away. You will have to rely on the dealer to check the oil level. Which is done by sucking out the oil, measuring how much came out, then add as necessary, and replace it. 100 bucks and a half day for a half quart of oil.

Both my Subaru's do not have a way to check or add the transmission oil. 2011 and 2013 models.
 
My new (2017) motorcycle doesn't have any way to drain or add oil. That much less maintenance for me to keep track of... :)
 
My dealer buddy tells me cars are already coming without oil drain plugs, and soon the dipstick will go away. You will have to rely on the dealer to check the oil level. Which is done by sucking out the oil, measuring how much came out, then add as necessary, and replace it. 100 bucks and a half day for a half quart of oil.

Both my Subaru's do not have a way to check or add the transmission oil. 2011 and 2013 models.
Many vehicles have electronic oil level sensors. I drove a 2004 Porsche once where the recommended way to check the oil level was from the instrument panel rather than the dipstick. You don’t need to suck the oil out to check the level. But it’s true that many newer cars already lack a drain plug and you change the oil by sucking it out from the top.
 
Both my Subaru's do not have a way to check or add the transmission oil. 2011 and 2013 models.

A buddy of mine learned how bad the manual transmission is. Not too many people buy manuals anymore but he did on his Subaru Legacy he had for a number of years.

Clutch grenaded one night as clutches that are worn out are prone to do...

Clutch pieces can easily penetrate the shared housing between the clutch and the manual gearbox. His blew a hole in the partition and sent clutch disk shrapnel into the gearbox and also out of the bottom of the case. The gearbox threw another chunk through its case bottom, and drained itself.

It was cheaper for him to buy a new Subaru with an automatic than to repair it.

But... that design will happily make its own drain holes when the clutch lets go. Hahaha.
 
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