TFRs - warnings, repercussions.

Ron Levy said:
If they fail to tell you about a TFR during your timely FSS briefing and you bust the TFR, the FAA may initiate an enforcement action, but it will never result in a finding of a violation if you obtain the record of that briefing. That's happened on several occasions, and the tapes of the briefing in which the briefer failed to mention the TFR were telling for the defense.
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Not always true. Prior to the PBOR, you could not get the tapes unless they wanted to give them to you, which only happened if they suited their side of the story. FSS, under LMCO is not a Government organization and not subject to FOIA.

Ususally, most of the FAA types will drop it if they see you are innocent but they don't have to, and sometimes didn't.

Fortunatly that is fixed now and you can get the proof you need to prove your innocence. Although having to prove you innocence is still so very wrong.

And you're still out a lot of money.
 
You gotta check something before you go for every flight. You just gotta. Call Lockmart, or use DUATs, or whatever you do. You just never know when some VIP big shot is going to make an unplanned stop or is running behind schedule or whatever, and starts campaigning all over the denizens of your local metropolis.

The stadium TFR is the nuttiest thing I have seen in my longish life. "You aren't allowed to fly there, but we're not going to tell you where 'there' is". We are fortunate that most of the big stadia hereabouts are in controlled airspace anyway. Real pain if you're planning a long cross country flight. I won't claim to know where all the stadia are in Kentucky, nor do I know when they play basketball.
 
jbarrass said:
Not always true. Prior to the PBOR, you could not get the tapes unless they wanted to give them to you, which only happened if they suited their side of the story. FSS, under LMCO is not a Government organization and not subject to FOIA.
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That's not true. The record of the pilot's briefing is and was discoverable, and LMCO cannot legally refuse to provide material under a discovery motion. If the government did not provide it, the ALJ would take that in a light most favorable to the pilot, i.e., that the pilot was not briefed on that TFR. But in the two cases with which I am familiar, the FAA did provide the record of the briefing which proved that the pilot was not briefed.
 
steingar said:
The stadium TFR is the nuttiest thing I have seen in my longish life. "You aren't allowed to fly there, but we're not going to tell you where 'there' is".
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Amen to that. Your post prompted me to look up the current sporting NOTAM on DUAT:

FDC 9/5151 FDC PART 1 OF 2 .. SPECIAL NOTICE .. SPORTING EVENTS.
EFFECTIVE
IMMEDIATELY UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. THIS NOTICE REPLACES FDC NOTAM
3/1862 DUE TO THE WAIVER WEBSITE CHANGE AND LANGUAGE CLARIFICATION.
THIS NOTICE MODIFIES FLIGHT RESTRICTIONS PREVIOUSLY ISSUED IN FDC
NOTAM 3/1862 TO COMPLY WITH STATUTORY MANDATES DETAILED IN SECTION
352 OF PUBLIC LAW 108-7 AND AS AMENDED BY SECTION 521 OF PUBLIC LAW
108-199. PURSUANT TO 49 USC 40103( B ), THE FEDERAL AVIATION
ADMINISTRATION (FAA) CLASSIFIES THE AIRSPACE DEFINED IN THIS NOTAM AS
'NATIONAL DEFENSE AIRSPACE'. ANY PERSON WHO KNOWINGLY OR WILLFULLY
VIOLATES THE RULES CONCERNING OPERATIONS IN THIS AIRSPACE MAY BE
SUBJECT TO CERTAIN CRIMINAL PENALTIES UNDER 49 USC 46307. PILOTS WHO
DO NOT ADHERE TO THE FOLLOWING PROCEDURES MAY BE INTERCEPTED,
DETAINED AND INTERVIEWED BY LAW ENFORCEMENT/SECURITY PERSONNEL.
PURSUANT TO 14 CFR SECTION 99.7, SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS,
COMMENCING ONE HOUR BEFORE THE SCHEDULED TIME OF THE EVENT UNTIL ONE
HOUR AFTER THE END OF THE EVENT. ALL AIRCRAFT AND PARACHUTE
OPERATIONS ARE PROHIBITED WITHIN A 3 NMR UP TO AND INCLUDING 3000 FT
AGL OF ANY STADIUM HAVING A SEATING CAPACITY OF 30,000 OR MORE PEOPLE
WHERE EITHER A REGULAR OR POST SEASON MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL,
NATIONAL FOOTBALL LEAGUE, OR NCAA DIVISION ONE FOOTBALL GAME IS
OCCURRING. THIS NOTAM ALSO APPLIES TO NASCAR SPRINT CUP, INDY CAR,
END PART 1 OF 2
FDC 9/5151 FDC PART 2 OF 2 .. SPECIAL NOTICE .. SPORTING EVENTS.
EFFECTIVE
AND CHAMP SERIES RACES EXCLUDING QUALIFYING AND PRE-RACE EVENTS.
FLIGHTS CONDUCTED FOR OPERATIONAL PURPOSES OF ANY EVENT, STADIUM OR
VENUE AND BROADCAST COVERAGE FOR THE BROADCAST RIGHTS HOLDER ARE
AUTHORIZED WITH AN APPROVED WAIVER. THE RESTRICTIONS DO NOT APPLY TO
THOSE AIRCRAFT AUTHORIZED BY AND IN CONTACT WITH ATC FOR OPERATIONAL
OR SAFETY OF FLIGHT PURPOSES, DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE, LAW ENFORCEMENT,
AND AIR AMBULANCE FLIGHT OPERATIONS. ALL PREVIOUSLY ISSUED WAIVERS
TO FDC NOTAM 3/1862 REMAIN VALID UNTIL THE SPECIFIED END DATE BUT NOT
TO EXCEED 90 DAYS FOLLOWING THE EFFECTIVE DATE OF THIS NOTAM.
INFORMATION ABOUT WAIVER APPLICATIONS AND TSA SECURITY AUTHORIZATIONS
CAN BE FOUND AT

HTTP://WWW.TSA.GOV/WHAT_WE_DO/TSNM/GENERAL_AVIATION/AIRSPACE_WAIVERS.
SHTM
(CASE SENSITIVE USE LOWER CASE ONLY) OR BY CALLING TSA AT
571-227-2071. INDIVIDUALS MAY SUBMIT A REQUEST FOR A FAA WAIVER AT
HTTPS://WAIVER.C3.FAA.GOV.
END PART 2 OF 2
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I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that this fails to neet the requirements of 14 CFR 91.145(c), which is probably why they issued it under 14 CFR 99.7 instead:

91.145(c):

A NOTAM issued under this section will state the name of the aerial demonstration or sporting event and specify the effective dates and times, the geographic features or coordinates, and any other restrictions or procedures governing flight operations in the designated airspace.
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99.7:

Special security instructions.

Each person operating an aircraft in an ADIZ or Defense Area must, in addition to the applicable rules of this part, comply with special security instructions issued by the Administrator in the interest of national security, pursuant to agreement between the FAA and the Department of Defense, or between the FAA and a U.S. Federal security or intelligence agency
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I guess one solution would be to conduct all flights above 3000 AGL, although that could be a problem for VFR flights when the ceiling does not permit that. I wish they would at least put these "national defense airspace" areas on the VFR charts.
 
Ron Levy said:
Originally Posted by Artiom
So how does pilot suppose to know about stadium TFR?
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As discussed in several posts above -- do your homework, and thank AOPA for putting the material where you can find it.
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Where do they have that? I'm having trouble finding it.
 
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