TFR not mentioned during briefing....pop up?

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Jthamilton

Line Up and Wait
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Steamboat Springs, CO
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Okie182
Got my normal wx brief before departing San Diego to Mesquite, NV and got clear sailing for the entire route. No weather, no notams that applied and no TFRs. Normally I check just before I fly but this time it was 2 hours before my flight, since nothing was changing for a long time I opted to just leave.

I got flight following entire route until I was 15 miles outside of 67L. While burning off some altitude I looked at my 796 and low and behold there was red ring almost adjacent to the airport. I touched on it and it said law enforcement TFR up to 3000agl. I landed without incident although I did have to divert around it as it was in my path. This thing was literally in BFE.

I asked Taxi driver if anything was going on and he mentioned the Cliven Bundy situation was a short distance outside of town. I assumed this was it and I asked about it the next morning when getting my briefing and the briefer knew nothing about it.

Never had this happen before, anyone else experience something like this?
 
It must have been a pop up, does your 796 update inflight?

I just checked and it is not there now. I did not notice it this morning but I was checking airspace south of LAS.

Was it a fun trip with the blustery winds and clouds? There was some rain showers moving around at noon.
 
Jthamilton said:
Never had this happen before, anyone else experience something like this?
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Yes, when Ronald Reagan's memorial services/viewing were going on in Santa Monica, I had a TFR pop up on me 2 hours later, after departing 10 minutes following a standard voice briefing from Northern California. Fortunately, I was talking to ATC and they brought it to my attention as I was entering the LA Basin.
 
BillTIZ said:
It must have been a pop up, does your 796 update inflight?

I just checked and it is not there now. I did not notice it this morning but I was checking airspace south of LAS.

Was it a fun trip with the blustery winds and clouds? There was some rain showers moving around at noon.
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We left Thursday afternoon to avoid the weather. When we left 67L Friday morning around 730 am we could see dark clouds to the northwest and the winds at 12k pushed us towards GS 230 knots for little while. Most of time we had 30-35 knot tailwind. I didn't want to punish the family with the gusty stuff.
 
One of my neighbors knew that the DNC was making a massive TFR. At around 1PM he called FSS and confirmed that the TFR began at 2:30. At 1:05 they decided to move it up to like 2PM. At 2:05 he departed. Fortunately he caught notice on his 696 that it was now active and boogied directly to the edge, but not before those watching had noticed. I got a call on my cell phone (I've got the number listed as the airport manager) from the AMOC wanting to know who just departed from our strip.
 
When a pilot obtains a timely briefing, I doubt the FAA would take action for ainformation that was unavailable at the time of the briefing.
 
Clip4 said:
When a pilot obtains a timely briefing, I doubt the FAA would take action for ainformation that was unavailable at the time of the briefing.
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But that begs a question, what is a timely briefing? I'm an hour from the airport and will often do the briefing at home (electronically and voice call). Then add the preflight time, waiting around for the keys and POH to show up, and then the taxi, you got all of 2 1/2 hours.
Timely?
 
Clip4 said:
When a pilot obtains a timely briefing, I doubt the FAA would take action for ainformation that was unavailable at the time of the briefing.
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Well, the TSA decided it was an unavoidable mistake and that he had acted properly bugging out as soon as he knew he had entered the TFR.

The FAA still raked him over the coals unnecessarily before deciding there wasn't any cause to charge him with a violation.
 
flyingron said:
Well, the TSA decided it was an unavoidable mistake and that he had acted properly bugging out as soon as he knew he had entered the TFR.

The FAA still raked him over the coals unnecessarily before deciding there wasn't any cause to charge him with a violation.
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Some people think the FAA is raking them over the coals any time they ask questions. The time of your briefing and the time the TFR is posted are both documented.
 
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silver-eagle said:
But that begs a question, what is a timely briefing? I'm an hour from the airport and will often do the briefing at home (electronically and voice call). Then add the preflight time, waiting around for the keys and POH to show up, and then the taxi, you got all of 2 1/2 hours.
Timely?
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I usually call prob 30 minutes before, however this time I called before we left hotel and made 30 minute drive. Add getting kids packed up, preflight, fuel and taxi 2 hours doesn't sound that bad. Had there been any hint of issues with weather along my route I would definitely called again prior to departure.

During entire flight absolutely nothing was mentioned about the TFR even if it had just popped up a short time before our arrival at 67L.
 
I used to think 30 minutes before flight was sufficient. Now I'll get a full briefing (DUATS or voice) 30 minutes to an hour before, then another abbreviated voice briefing within 10 minutes of departure to confirm no TFRs, unless I'm going IFR. I don't have in-flight TFR equipment, and I wouldn't trust it for a legal defense.
 
Clip4 said:
Some people think the FAA is raking them over the coals any time they ask questions. The time of your briefing and the time the TFR is posted are both documented.
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Homeland Seucrity had already made inquiries and identified the times involved. They were actual quite decent through the whole thing. However the FAA came in with all guns blazing. Shoot first, ask questions later. This was not a mere inquiry. They specifically threatened him at the outset with a suspension.
 
flyingron said:
Homeland Seucrity had already made inquiries and identified the times involved. They were actual quite decent through the whole thing. However the FAA came in with all guns blazing. Shoot first, ask questions later. This was not a mere inquiry. They specifically threatened him at the outset with a suspension.
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Then a complaint to a regional office about the inspector's demeanor is warranted.
 
We hear too often of reports of actions like this with the FAA. Amazing how staff who must be educated to some extent continue to do moronic things to the taxpayer.

Sadly I feel as many probably do that complaining to the regional office will only fall on deaf ears. However evidence that doing this would benefit the flying public would almost earn a small amount of respect and show the FAA's intent on trying do the right thing.

I'm not holding my breath.
 
Jthamilton said:
We hear too often of reports of actions like this with the FAA. Amazing how staff who must be educated to some extent continue to do moronic things to the taxpayer.

Sadly I feel as many probably do that complaining to the regional office will only fall on deaf ears. However evidence that doing this would benefit the flying public would almost earn a small amount of respect and show the FAA's intent on trying do the right thing.

I'm not holding my breath.
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I think you might be surprised. Most agencies take complaints seriously. Even the complaint end in couciling, the next pilot in this circum stance will have a better outcome.
 
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Clip4 said:
I think you might be surprised. Most agencies take complaints seriously. Even the complaint end in couciling, the next pilot in this circum stance will have a better outcome.
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No might about it, I would be completely gobsmacked if any 'authority' were actually held to account for their lousy demeanor, crap service, nit-picking, or absolute incompetence.

I would start giving examples from da googles but I would run out of electrons real soon.

http://www.examiner.com/article/man-fined-525-for-not-paying-for-an-89-cent-drink-refill

Happens daily, from all kinds of 'crats.
 
I believe there is a big difference in what kind of TFR it is. VIP TFR generally have a little more notice. Law Enforcement or disaster TFR are by their very nature last moment things. So not knowing abut a TFR that got posted 10 minutes before your flight for a law enforcement issue will be treated differently then a scheduled VIP TFR bust. I believe that other then VIP tfrs are all of the 3k variety as well.
 
Clip4 said:
I think you might be surprised. Most agencies take complaints seriously. Even the complaint end in couciling, the next pilot in this circum stance will have a better outcome.
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Until the complains end in firing, no one cares. Counseling. Great. So they get to stay on, be annoyed by their bosses, know there's no real consequences, and watch for my name to go by on some figure paper-pushing event so they can retaliate. Sounds like a worthwhile thing to stay far the hell away from to me.
 
jtheune said:
I believe there is a big difference in what kind of TFR it is. VIP TFR generally have a little more notice. Law Enforcement or disaster TFR are by their very nature last moment things. So not knowing abut a TFR that got posted 10 minutes before your flight for a law enforcement issue will be treated differently then a scheduled VIP TFR bust. I believe that other then VIP tfrs are all of the 3k variety as well.
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I'm sure the Chief Counsel will agree. The law carefully states that TFRs are only mandatory if they're not for POTUS.

Good luck with that.

Think it'd be better to just fix them?
 
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gismo said:
Just send it to senator Inhofe.
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Inhofe is from Tulsa on the next row of hangars from my dads. Real advocate for aviation for sure. Sadly his son who was Ortho surgeon at surgical hospital that I worked for died when he crashed his Mitsubishi several months ago.

If I were to ever get in a bind with the FAA for questionable reasons I would definitely make a call to him!
 
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