Tesla Model 3 - Now I get the hype.

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by flyingcheesehead, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. schmookeeg

    schmookeeg Cleared for Takeoff

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    The State of Oregon paid me $5,000 to lease my i3, on top of the fed's $7,500 -- net, it worked out to about $6 per day to drive the thing for 2 years. Half of their incentive was because I didn't bother to draw W2 income in Oregon last year... it's just grand to be poor. :D

    They've indicated that I'll be paying a $110 extra every 4 years on my car registration to compensate the loss of their road taxes. So they should have their money back in about 200 years. :eek:
     
  2. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    You happen to be right on almost all points. Almost.
    But for one thing, we have two practically new vehicles now and we have always tended to buy new and hold for about 10 years. So we really wouldn't be in the market for a while, but I am sure that when we sell the BMW, our next car will be a Tesla.

    For another thing, we would not argue over who drives it. Or rather the argument would go like this:

    Me: I think I'll take the Tesla today.
    Her: No you won't because I'm taking it.
    Me: Oh. Ok.

    (yeah, I'm PW'd).
     
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  3. tspear

    tspear Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Missed my point. He wanted to spend a lot for capability he never uses. I was asking why do we do this?
    You see some of this in how people talk about Tesla and other electric vehicles.

    Tim
     
  4. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Empty Gatorade bottles..?? :lol::lol:
     
  5. Dav8or

    Dav8or Final Approach

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    I totally get the buy and hold for ten years thing. My wife and I do the same thing. I hope to keep my Bolt 10 years. My last car I held for 12 years before buying the Bolt and still have it because it does the one thing the Bolt can't. The top goes down. However, an electric car is significant enough that you will forgive yourself for breaking that rule. Just saying'. Life is too short.
     
  6. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    You are probably right (about life being too short). I'll be almost 75 when it comes time to buy my next car, and that car just may be a wheel chair. Maybe I'll break the rule and buy the Tesla before I turn 70. I'll probably need a self-driver by then.
     
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  7. Juliet Hotel

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    You don't need a gas powered vehicle to be able to do that because gas stations are readily available and it takes 10 minutes or less to fill up at one. When charging stations are as common as gas stations and when they are able to top up the batteries in about 5 minutes (the time it typically takes to actually pump the gas into the tank now), then it will be an apples/apples comparison. But that's not where we're at today. So for now, building electric vehicles with very long range is the only way to make them viable for some people/mission profiles.
     
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  8. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Human nature thing? People sometimes set goals based on who they wish they were rather than who they actually are. Nordic Track has become a quite successful company because of this. You buy it as exercise equipment, you use it as a place to hang shirts.
     
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  9. tspear

    tspear Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Hey, I used my row machine this morning! :D

    Tim
     
  10. scottfromboston

    scottfromboston Pre-takeoff checklist

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    May as well use it. It’s a terrible laundry rack.

    Pool tables work a lot better. :)
     
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  11. Dav8or

    Dav8or Final Approach

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    Do it!! You will not regret it and you will say that it's the best car you ever owned. I say this not as a Tesla fan, as I have never even driven one and have no plans to buy one, but as and electric car fan. I have not drunk the Tesla branded Kool-Aid, but I have swilled the more plebeian BEV moonshine and I am hooked. Be forewarned. So will you.
     
  12. JOhnH

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    Ok, I just about have Leslie talked into this. She really wants one (a Tesla) but is hesitant to sell her BMW.

    But,
    Which one? I am thinking about maybe buying used for a change. Tesla has a reputation for updating older cars with newer technologies, but I recently heard there will be no "refresh" for older Teslas.

    Which Tesla's can be upgraded to autopilot? Does that have to be a new one?

    Model S or Model X. How many corners were cut to make the less expensive model?

    What is the best way to find a good used Tesla? I once heard there were brokers that specialized in this.
     
  13. wayne

    wayne Cleared for Takeoff

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    I have yet to spend anywhere near $40k on a car. I'm currently driving a Mustang Convertible and previously a BMW 328i Coupe. That's the lowest price Model 3 ($39,900). No extras. No fancy wheels, no long range, no performance, no premium interior, basic black color, no self-driving, nothing. Not sure if the delivery charge is included or not. Make changes and it can quickly turn into a $60k car or more.

    I expect to spend no more than that on my next two cars combined. Probably less.

    I would be a great candidate for an electric vehicle. I drive ~8k miles a year, but that may go up as my my commute is 15 miles each way now instead of 10 miles each way (just moved), and could be less if I took slower surface streets; the interstate is a quicker and easier route. That means I won't see as much "gas savings" as many people as I don't drive as many miles. I have a garage and the electrical panel is in the garage, so easy to add a new 220 v circuit to charge the car. My wife and I each have a car, so we could easily have one ICE car for trips, plus we typically fly for long trips, so we might be able to have two BEVs.

    But not at that price.

    And I'm not going from driving a 328i and Mustang Convertible to a Chevy Bolt. o_O
     
  14. SoonerAviator

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    Eh, I'd wait on the Tesla, personally. The major auto mfgs will have a slew of competition for the Model 3/S/X coming in the next 2-3 years. Tesla is enjoying it's time as one of the industry leaders, but I don't know how much they'll be leading in terms of volume of EV sales in a few years once Ford/GM/VW/etc get their EV models on the road.
     
  15. JOhnH

    JOhnH Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I see your point, but a few things come to mind.
    First, I am 67. If I wait too many more years, I probably won't ever buy a motorized computer.

    Also, that is pretty much the excuse/reason I used a few years ago when I bought my wife the BMW. But there are ALWAYS better things coming soon, especially in the tech world, and if you keep waiting for the next best thing, you will always be waiting.
     
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  16. SoonerAviator

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    Well, if time is of the essence then by all means grab a used Tesla. For those who are casually looking for an EV in the next few years, I'd bide my time to see what else comes out. I don't base that on "waiting for the next big tech item", I base it on increased competition in the market segment. Teslas seem to have a decent product, but from an appearance standpoint they miss the mark for me. I'd hope that the bigger mfgs can come out with something a bit more aggressive in appearance with the same performance benchmarks. It's like being use to owning a convertible Mustang and having to settle for buying a Toyota Camry.
     
  17. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Hi John,

    Autopilot is so integrated into the car that, according to Elon Musk (and I believe him on this one), it is easier to build an entire new car than it is to retrofit all the hardware and wiring required to outfit an existing one.

    There are two main iterations of Autopilot: The original "Autopilot hardware 1" was added to the Model S in 2014. This was when Tesla was working with a third party (Mobileye). It is somewhat limited, it's basically a combination of Autosteer and Traffic Aware Cruise Control (which is starting to become common on other cars). It is good for highway driving and that's about it, it will not be updated further.

    The newer "Autopilot Hardware 2" has eight cameras and needs only a computer upgrade (which will be available soon) to be able to do full self-driving when the software and regulatory approvals are available - Later this year and who knows, respectively. The Model S and Model X started having Hardware 2 in about September of 2016. The easiest way to spot whether a car has this is to look at the little side light right in front of the driver's door, behind and above the front wheel. If there's a camera there, it's a Hardware 2 car.

    The Tesla Model 3s all have at least "Hardware 2.5"; The very newest cars shipping now I think have Hardware 3 which contains the Tesla-designed chip that will be required to enable full self driving features. All Hardware 2 and Hardware 2.5 cars can be upgraded to Hardware 3; the important part is just having all the cameras and wiring present.

    I think you're confusing something with regards to Model S and X. Neither of those is the "less expensive model". The S is a full-size sedan, the X is a mid-size SUV. They're similar in dimensions except height. The X is the one with the falcon wing doors.

    The "less expensive model" is the Model 3, a mid-size sedan. The main differences there are:

    * S has a hatchback while 3 has a trunk
    * S is physically larger
    * S is all aluminum while 3 has some steel components like a normal car.
    * 3 was designed for extreme aerodynamic efficiency so that it can use a smaller battery than the S. The long range S has a 100kWh battery, while the long range 3's battery is about 80kWh. That allows the 3 to have nearly the same range as the S (310 vs. 335 miles) while having a 20% smaller battery, since the battery is the most expensive part of building the car that is the major thing enabling the lower price.
    * S has two screens: LCD "dashboard" as well as center 17" portrait LCD display for infotainment and various car control functions (heat, stereo, etc). The 3 has a single, center-mounted 15" landscape display for all of the above. This is one thing that people think is weird after looking at pictures, but I found to be quite natural almost right away.

    The S and X have also been given options that aren't available on the 3, like a driver-controllable smart air suspension, "Bioweapon Defense Mode", and some others like the self-presenting door handles on the S and the self-opening doors on the X. So overall, I wouldn't say that Tesla "cut any corners" with the 3, but they're clearly trying to maintain the differentiation with the S and X to justify the higher price.

    For used ones, I would recommend that you just go with one straight from Tesla for your first one. Any other dealer will not only not know exactly what they're selling you in most cases, they will be unable to support it after purchase and they will not have been able to fix any squawks before selling it to you. In addition, Tesla's customer retention is stellar - Somewhere in the 90%+ range - so most of the ones that they don't have are ones that people didn't like for some reason (red flag #1) and/or have been shuffled around between dealers/auctioneers and sat unplugged for who knows how long. Once you've had your first Tesla and know better what to look for, then it'd be OK to look at those being sold elsewhere.

    Start here: https://www.tesla.com/inventory/used
    Or, if you want more search options and/or alerts when new ones that meet your parameters pop up: https://ev-cpo.com/hunter/
     
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  18. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    *pout* I can only hit the like button once on Kent's last post.
     
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  19. Jay Honeck

    Jay Honeck Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I submit, for your appreciation, the coolest use for Tesla Summon mode, ever. (Tesla Summon allows you to move your Tesla by remote control, using your cell phone.)

    Here's the scene: We just flew back from Houston, about an hour Northeast of us. I'm taxiing in when I discover that I have parked our Model 3 in front of our refueling trailer. (Full of that wonderful, sweet, unpolluted mogas.)

    I'm about to shut down and move the car when Mary, my lovely wife, whips out her call phone and says "No worries -- we can move it out of the way from here!"

    She then activates "Summon Mode" from her cell phone, and moves the Tesla out of the way, easy-peasy!

    Here's the video:

    https://www.facebook.com/jjhoneck/videos/vb.100000777116758/2332151253487422/?type=3
     
  20. Juliet Hotel

    Juliet Hotel Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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  21. Jay Honeck

    Jay Honeck Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Argh. Sorry.

    Try it now!
     
  22. PPC1052

    PPC1052 En-Route

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    There's a certain irony in moving your electric vehicle remotely so you can keep your internal combustion motor running longer in order to get just a wee bit closer to the petroleum based fuel tank to refuel.:)
     
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  23. Jay Honeck

    Jay Honeck Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I did not buy the Tesla to "save the world". It won't.

    I bought it because it's the fastest effing car on the road, with the most amazing tech.

    Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk
     
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  24. PPC1052

    PPC1052 En-Route

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    Don't worry. I'm that last person to judge on that issue. Even if I'm the first to make a joke.
     
  25. Jay Honeck

    Jay Honeck Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Sorry, I get painted with the Lefty brush down here in South Texas wherever I go in my Tesla, so I get a little testy about it. lol

    When I go on the Tesla groups, the greenies are appalled that I own and drive 9 ICE vehicles. lol

    Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk
     
  26. deonb

    deonb Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Really set yourself up there... Today is day number 84 since the above was posted:

    Tesla Showcases First Model 3 Made In China
    https://insideevs.com/news/367744/tesla-shows-first-model-3-made-china

    Tesla Model 3 production in China factory undergoes first test trials:
    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-gigafactory-3-footage-model-3-trial-production-video/

    And updated pictures from:
    Tesla Gigafactory 3 sightings suggest that paint shop is under construction
    https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-gigafactory-3-paint-shop-under-construction/

    upload_2019-8-29_10-10-32.png


    upload_2019-8-29_10-11-38.png

    You don't need to bet on Musk. But don't bet against him.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
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  27. 3393RP

    3393RP Pattern Altitude

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    Made with parts and subassemblies delivered from Fremont.

    How is the factory producing cars if the paint shop isn't finished?
     
  28. patrick wentworth

    patrick wentworth Pre-takeoff checklist

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    A little more than a year since having to stop at a gas station, one service item - the Frunk latch. Nice not having to visit anyone for oil changes, smog, gas, and in our area no worries about stolen catalytic converter (3 in our neighborhood). And of course the dreaded service call was on time at my house by a very nice young ex navy tech.
    Fuel vs actual payments to PG&E is 1/3 my local gasoline cost ( on a per mile @32 mpg that we were getting on our Honda HRV).
    Real data is a wonderful thing!
    Model Y on order and my son is anxiously waiting to get the 3...... :):)
     
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  29. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I rode in one this weekend. Meh. It's a sedan. Accelerates nicely, but there's nothing spectacular about it. I really dislike the center display. I want the info straight ahead, not looking to the center when I want to check something.
     
  30. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Saw one up close yesterday. Don’t have many in my neck of the woods. I’ve warmed up to the blunt nose. The styling and fit and finish is excellent. Still can’t get beyond the center display. I’d don’t care if it drives itself and I can program my coffee machine, I pick a car for the looks and driving experience. There’s no flow or ergonomics to that panel.

    And they’ve still got QC issues.

    https://www.latimes.com/business/au...sla-buyers-complain-about-service-and-quality
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
  31. deonb

    deonb Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    That was from August 9th just for the exterior pictures of the GF. The other two links are from today.

    That car certainly looks painted.
     
  32. 3393RP

    3393RP Pattern Altitude

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    Yeah, it's a car. One. No doubt the body was shipped from California painted. You're looking at posed photos. I'd think by now you would recognize the subterfuge produced by Tesla and aided by their media outlets. One thing that's common among Tesla acolytes is gullibility, and you're right there.

    Did you actually read the article?

    Leaked images and footage from the interior of Gigafactory 3 suggest that Tesla is already making the necessary preparations for trial production runs of its Made-in-China Model 3 in its massive Shanghai-based facility. The installation of manufacturing equipment and robots inside Gigafactory 3 is ongoing as well.

    The recent Gigafactory 3 leaks were shared on Chinese social media platform Weibo by electric car enthusiast Battery King _ (电池王_). Overall, the images show a section of Gigafactory 3 that was largely complete, though it appeared that the floors and walls of the area are still bare concrete. The lighting appears to be done and the installation of manufacturing equipment is in full swing.

    Staged photos, smoke and mirrors. If the camera had been swiveled 180°, the view would encompass almost naked structure. My comment about actual production stands.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
  33. EdFred

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    I'm trying to figure out who is more defensive and apologetic. Cirrus or Tesla Fanpersons.
     
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  34. JOhnH

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    I might be considered a Tesla Fanperson, and I might get defensive when ignorant people make ignorant claims that are critical of Tesla, but I am certainly not apologetic.

    Note: I said "ignorant" claims. Some claims aren't quite so ignorant. For instance, I don't really like that giant display in the center of the console either. I would prefer a longer, lower display right in front of the driver.

    But driving a Tesla is a blast that is only understood by someone that has actually driven one. I have driven three different Corvettes, a handful of other "muscle" cars including Camaros, Trans AMs, and a Maserati, and the Tesla hands down is more fun than any of them. The only thing missing is the playing card in the spokes.
     
  35. patrick wentworth

    patrick wentworth Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I thought the center display would be a distraction until I realized the speed is in the upper left corner --- very much in peripheral vision and the other items I usually watch like engine gauges tach gear selection ....... don't exist and are not needed :) (This from a 172k owner where ALL the important gauges on fuel and engine are way to hell off to the co-pilot hinterland)

    Yep it is different and I am a fan -- Dad was a mechanic, I wrench on Cessna's, I get the gearhead life but this electric stuff is ok as well.
    Perhaps it will always be Ford vs Chevy -- Atheist v Religious -- Dem vs Republican.
    But I miss the less angry and fun rivalry and spirited discussions.

    When I lose my driver's license my Tesla will drive me where I want to go and I am funding that future by buying in. I am not convinced those who do not get the vision will not be stuck in their house dying more quickly
    Running to the garage and my B4 bag to get the Nomex flight suit :)
     
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  36. Stingray Don

    Stingray Don En-Route

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  37. 1RTK1

    1RTK1 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
  38. patrick wentworth

    patrick wentworth Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Range 320 miles...... Acceleration beats most cars so perhaps you don't need 2-3 hours of fuel :) :)
     
  39. Zeldman

    Zeldman Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I realize the company is trying to save money by not having to make two cars, one right hand drive, one left hand drive, but nothing says cheap to me than having a ''one size fits some'' car design.
     
  40. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    It’s not just the awkwardness of the display either, it’s the fact you have to take your attention off of driving just to activate the wipers. Sometimes physical controls work better than touch screens.

    https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/reviews/2018-tesla-model-3-long-range-review/