Temp-related mag/plug failure modes?

flyingcheesehead

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iMooniac
Went to fly tonight - Temp -19, dewpoint -27, altimeter 3071, should have been fun!

Unfortunately, when I ran it up, my left mag was completely inop. In addition, my #1 cylinder was finicky with the remaining mag (whether it was on R or Both) - It would stop firing. Actually, I didn't notice it at idle at all, it was during the runup that it was intermittently cutting out. After taxiing back to the hangar, I tried a full-power runup leaned out with similar results.

Is there something cold-related that could cause the mag failure? What about the cylinder misfire?

Mooney Ovation, Conti IO-550-G.
 
Slicks or Bendex?
 
That sucks. I thought of flying but this cold weather and windy condition made me chicken out as I thought I'd be a bit rough on the plane and pilot! Looking forward to warmer temps this weekend. Hope your issue was simply related to cold wx and nothing more!

Went to fly tonight - Temp -19, dewpoint -27, altimeter 3071, should have been fun!

Unfortunately, when I ran it up, my left mag was completely inop. In addition, my #1 cylinder was finicky with the remaining mag (whether it was on R or Both) - It would stop firing. Actually, I didn't notice it at idle at all, it was during the runup that it was intermittently cutting out. After taxiing back to the hangar, I tried a full-power runup leaned out with similar results.

Is there something cold-related that could cause the mag failure? What about the cylinder misfire?

Mooney Ovation, Conti IO-550-G.
 
Went to fly tonight - Temp -19, dewpoint -27, altimeter 3071, should have been fun!

Unfortunately, when I ran it up, my left mag was completely inop. In addition, my #1 cylinder was finicky with the remaining mag (whether it was on R or Both) - It would stop firing. Actually, I didn't notice it at idle at all, it was during the runup that it was intermittently cutting out. After taxiing back to the hangar, I tried a full-power runup leaned out with similar results.

Is there something cold-related that could cause the mag failure? What about the cylinder misfire?

Mooney Ovation, Conti IO-550-G.

Just curious, did you preheat?
 
Just curious, did you preheat?

I have a Reiff Standard System preheater mounted on the plane - 50W cylinder bands, 100W oil sump heater. I keep it plugged in in the hangar with cowl plugs in and a blanket over the top of the cowling. Normally it's nice and toasty, with the brutal cold today it had some trouble keeping up (normally I can warm my hands inside the cowl and the oil temp is already registering prior to startup - Not so today).

In addition, I keep a space heater set to 75º in the cabin to keep the gyros (and everything else) warmed up, so the ignition switch itself shouldn't have had any problems with the cold. The space heater appeared to be keeping up even with the extra-cold weather.

It was difficult to start the plane - I'm guessing the left mag is the one that is normally providing good spark for starts. I had to prime, prime again, prime some more, and cranked a fair bit as well. I got several single-cylinder fires before it finally caught enough to keep itself running.
 
It takes a lot of fuel to start a cold engine. I use no prime in summer and may use 6 or more strokes in winter depending on my preheat. And probably a couple more slow strokes to keep the mill spinning after initial start. That said, when you prime cold cylinders you shoot raw fuel into them. In cold temps that fuel doesn't vaporize well. The potential to wet foul a plug is increased. If the engine tries to fire and quickly quits you may have "frosted" the plugs. The cold cylinders flash heat and make steam on the first combustion cycle(s). That steam instantly condenses on cool surfaces, and your plugs are very reactive to condensation/flash frosting. If that happens nothing will fire normally and nothing but heat and time will cure the problem. Don't assume you have a component failure. You may have your first experience at what inadequate preheat starting procedures can do. At -19F I wouldn't expect 50w bands to be very effective at heating those cylinder heads.
 
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My experience has been that leaving electrical heaters running 24/7 on cold engines causes more problems than it solves. This has been my findings in aircraft, marine, construction, and farming experience.
Specifically to aircraft engines, the cylinders at the prop will have differential cooling due to the prop sucking the heat. So warmer parts of the engine will release water vapor and the cooler parts will condense it causing rust.
Not saying that this is the root of your immediate problem, that remains to be seen.
 
I think your mag failure is more likely coincidental to the cold than caused by, especially with a toasty preheat, although it may be a condensation issue in which case, the preheat is likely to blame. Just have to see what happens.
 
With a conventional key start airplane you're only firing on one mag in the start position so as those cylinders popped and you kept cranking you were only frosting one plug per cyl. At least initially. Heat it up well and I'll bet it starts and runs just fine. It may need a good runup to clean it out but probably nothing more. Let us know what happens.
 
With a conventional key start airplane you're only firing on one mag in the start position so as those cylinders popped and you kept cranking you were only frosting one plug per cyl. At least initially. Heat it up well and I'll bet it starts and runs just fine. It may need a good runup to clean it out but probably nothing more. Let us know what happens.

My 177 Key Start fires both mags.... Both mags are impulse coupled. My Cessna 150 was the same way.

My friend's 177B key start fires both mags. It has one magneto drive that is impulsed, that drives two distributors.


There are many aircraft with key start ignition switches that fire both magnetos in the "Start" position.
 
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It takes a lot of fuel to start a cold engine. I use no prime in summer and may use 6 or more strokes in winter depending on my preheat. And probably a couple more slow strokes to keep the mill spinning after initial start.

This is an injected engine, though, and a couple of days before and only about 10ºF warmer if that, my normal priming sequence (mixture rich, throttle three twists in, pump on, smoothly pull mixture to idle cutoff after 2-3 seconds) resulted in a quick start.

That said, when you prime cold cylinders you shoot raw fuel into them. In cold temps that fuel doesn't vaporize well. The potential to wet foul a plug is increased. If the engine tries to fire and quickly quits you may have "frosted" the plugs. The cold cylinders flash heat and make steam on the first combustion cycle(s). That steam instantly condenses on cool surfaces, and your plugs are very reactive to condensation/flash frosting. If that happens nothing will fire normally and nothing but heat and time will cure the problem.

I thought of that, but if all the plugs were frosted I'd never have been able to start the engine, right?

Don't assume you have a component failure. You may have your first experience at what inadequate preheat starting procedures can do. At -19F I wouldn't expect 50w bands to be very effective at heating those cylinder heads.

It was -19ºC on the ATIS, or about -2ºF.

I don't think the engine was too cold, it had been plugged into the heater with the cowl plugs in and blanket on since 2 days earlier when I last flew it, so it's not like it started from cold-soaked and had to heat it up.

My experience has been that leaving electrical heaters running 24/7 on cold engines causes more problems than it solves. This has been my findings in aircraft, marine, construction, and farming experience.
Specifically to aircraft engines, the cylinders at the prop will have differential cooling due to the prop sucking the heat. So warmer parts of the engine will release water vapor and the cooler parts will condense it causing rust.
Not saying that this is the root of your immediate problem, that remains to be seen.

This has been debated ad infinitum in other threads. There are times where 24/7 heating is appropriate and times where it's not, so the absolute yes/no arguments that ignore the other variables aren't worth having - So I'm not gonna start here. :no:

With a conventional key start airplane you're only firing on one mag in the start position so as those cylinders popped and you kept cranking you were only frosting one plug per cyl. At least initially. Heat it up well and I'll bet it starts and runs just fine. It may need a good runup to clean it out but probably nothing more. Let us know what happens.

Y'know... I can't be certain any more, but I cranked for probably 15 seconds twice with a break in between, and I think the engine may have started when I gave up the second time - So when I released the key, maybe the engine still had just enough momentum that the other mag was able to start it.

I'm not sure whether my plane starts on both mags or just one.
 
Do you know the rest of the engine letters/numbers?

http://www.continentalmotors.aero/E...essories/Look_Up_Engine_Accessories_by_Model/

All of the ones I have checked so far have impulse coupling on both magnetos.

Interesting, thanks for the link! I don't know anything beyond IO-550-G. I had no idea it went further than that!

Every one of them lists the mags like this:

TCM S6RSC-25 (BOTH SIDES) IMPULSE COUPLING

So, I guess we do have impulse couplings on both sides.
 
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