Technology...WT-actual-F?

timwinters

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So, I sent Travis the Bill of Sale, filled in, for 57D to review about a week before he picked up the plane...using a PC.

He tweaks a few things and sends it back...using a Mac.

I opened up his return copy to print it out the day before he picked up the plane and it was blank...just the form...nothing filled in. "Oh well", I think to myself, I'll still print it out and we can fill it in manually when we're together. I print it out and all the filled-in info is there on the printed copy. WTF?

Today, I needed to mail him something so I opened up the same email on my phone (Android) to get his mailing address. The copy of the Bill of Sale attached is the one from when he sold his 170 in March. WTF?

so, out of curiosity, I open up the same email on my iPad. It's the correct Bill of Sale with all the info filled in.

WTF? Someone explain this sheet to me!
 
What kind of document is it?
 
PDF writers and readers have horrendous problems across readers and platforms. We deal with tens of thousands of the things daily at work.

To describe how effed PDF is as a “standard” would take a week.

The ONLY software that will EVER work 100% is going to say “Adobe” on it. Everybody else writes alternatives because nobody wants to pay Adobe. Literally everything else is broken in some fashion.

Forms are particularly broken which is why your Android probably couldn’t show entry fields correctly after being filled out on another platform.

The “it showed the wrong document” is more likely an email client caching bug and unrelated to the fustercluck of PDF. I see similar BS occasionally on GMail App on iOS. Which... is the default email client on Android. It tries to thread replies and stores the wrong attachment locally. The correct one is usually hidden in the “collapsed” email chain.

Using a different email client that doesn’t attempt threading of messages at all, will usually find the correct replies and attachments.

The “smarter” we make the software, the stupider the software developers assumptions are and they become exposed for all to see.
 
For PDF fill in forms, I always print to PDF first before sending it off somewhere. Seems like an extra step but it prevents issues like those described.
 
The “smarter” we make the software, the stupider the software developers assumptions are and they become exposed for all to see.

sounds just like CAD (and associated design/calc) software in architectural/engineering offices. The little Arch's and Eng's think the computer is doing their thinking for them and the quality and accuracy of construction drawings is going to sheet.

The latest example...we were relocating a sewer main for a new school. The pipes upstream and downstream were both 12". The drawings called for the new pipe to be 8". WTF? I pinged the little Eng and he said it was the right size for the flow. So I pinged the local sewer district's engineer...and they said WTF? Not even close to being big enough for the flow in that main. But 8" is what the computer told little Eng and it didn't matter what the other pipes' sizes were...didn't even raise their suspicion...

The sewer district engineer(s) had also missed the issue when they checked the drawings.
 
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For PDF fill in forms, I always print to PDF first before sending it off somewhere. Seems like an extra step but it prevents issues like those described.

It also makes it more difficult for the filled-in data to "accidentally" get changed somewhere along the way. Occasionally, when I have a reasonable suspicion that the form I am sending will not be properly protected, I will go as far as saving the form as a jpg then creating a new PDF using that jpg. It prevents someone from directly editing the text within the document and makes any changes much easier to detect.
 
The ONLY software that will EVER work 100% is going to say “Adobe” on it. Everybody else writes alternatives because nobody wants to pay Adobe. Literally everything else is broken in some fashion.

You hit that nail on the head, Nate. I had opened it with PDF viewer. I went back just now and I opened it with Acrobat and it's the correct form. That's still pretty FUBAR'ed though!
 
You hit that nail on the head, Nate. I had opened it with PDF viewer. I went back just now and I opened it with Acrobat and it's the correct form. That's still pretty FUBAR'ed though!

It seriously sucks when your company mixes thousands of PDFs and faxes. Yeah faxes. Yay medical data “security”.

We provide Adobe tools for a significant subset of the staff ($$$$) and I think three random free/shareware tools of varying “trustworthiness” just to convert or often just *compress* the horrid inline image attachments customers and vendors send to us, which isn’t a forms issue, but a “using PDF as an awful image wrapper” issue — and it’s way worse than the forms bugs.

I can’t think of a software vendor we get less from for the price than Adobe really. Especially Acrobat and PDF tools.

The creatives love the cloud stuff for photoshop and that suite, but we’ve had strange problems with saving from those to bog standard windows file shares and Adobe literally says “not supported” via official paid support channels.

I do my best to socially distance myself from any Adobe related tickets since our desktop guy and even my boss have dealt more with them and I can 90% of the time. LOL
 
By the way... for signing PDFs and dealing with them, we have seen no better vendor than DocuSign.

Never looked to see if they could be used as a “wrapper” around the stupidity of complete forms. But we never have issues with anything they’ve sent or been involved with.

They’re “ahead of the curve” dealing with documents for sure. Makes sense, of course... Core business need, etc etc etc.
 
It seriously sucks when your company mixes thousands of PDFs and faxes. Yeah faxes. Yay medical data “security”.

We provide Adobe tools for a significant subset of the staff ($$$$) and I think three random free/shareware tools of varying “trustworthiness” just to convert or often just *compress* the horrid inline image attachments customers and vendors send to us, which isn’t a forms issue, but a “using PDF as an awful image wrapper” issue — and it’s way worse than the forms bugs.

I can’t think of a software vendor we get less from for the price than Adobe really. Especially Acrobat and PDF tools.

The creatives love the cloud stuff for photoshop and that suite, but we’ve had strange problems with saving from those to bog standard windows file shares and Adobe literally says “not supported” via official paid support channels.

I do my best to socially distance myself from any Adobe related tickets since our desktop guy and even my boss have dealt more with them and I can 90% of the time. LOL

Everything Adobe makes has a competing product that is superior and almost always much less expensive. That they're still in business is mainly a matter of inertia: People don't want to have to learn a new piece of software to do the same thing -- especially when someone else is paying the bills every month, forever.

I swore off Adobe years ago when they did away with outright purchases. They still send me postal mail (apparently, they can't send email to an address associated with a canceled account) offering me steep first-year discounts to re-enroll in their ransom subscription program, but I'm not biting. Every successive version of their software is buggier and more bloated than the versions they replaced, so I'd wind up paying forever for old software. No thanks. I want no part of that racket.

In a way, however, I'm grateful to Adobe for forcing me to explore alternatives that turned out to be better and leaner than anything Adobe has made in the past 10 years. That in turn gave me a peculiar kind of competency in the basics of practically any program designed to do the things I need to do, and advanced competency in the ones I decided I liked best.

For example, to replace Premiere Pro, I eventually decided on Magix Video Pro X because it has all of the capabilities I need and fits my workflow best. But in the course of my search, I also acquired basic competency in Vegas Pro, Davinci Resolve, Lightworks, Edius Pro, and several other lesser-known commercial editors, as well as many FOSS ones. I chose the one that best fit my workflow to become expert in; but if I had to, I could edit a video in any of them.

The same goes for my Dreamweaver replacement. I tried practically every IDE out there, and I can use any of them if I have to. The one I chose to become expert in was Blumentals WeBuilder because it just "felt" right to me; but I can use Eclipse, Netbeans, Notepad++, or probably whatever else is out there, because chances are I tried it.

Serif Affinity Photo aptly replaces Photoshop, as well as those parts of Fireworks that I actually used. Affinity Designer replaces Adobe Illustrator, and Affinity Publisher replaces Adobe InDesign. All of them are outright purchases with no ransom.

As for PDF files, all you have to do is flatten them to make them universally readable. Almost any PDF application I've ever tried has the ability to save a "flattened PDF" in some manner or another. Some actually have that function in the File menu. In those that don't, you just print the PDF to a PDF.

Rich
 
I swore off Adobe years ago when they did away with outright purchases. They still send me postal mail (apparently, they can't send email to an address associated with a canceled account) offering me steep first-year discounts to re-enroll in their ransom subscription program, but I'm not biting. Every successive version of their software is buggier and more bloated than the versions they replaced, so I'd wind up paying forever for old software. No thanks. I want no part of that racket.

Not sure where you get the idea that Acrobat is only available via subscription...

Acrobat Pro and Acrobat Standard are full-on editors and are stand-alone, non-cloud based, one-time purchase packages.
 
Astounding that something as simple as a one-page document, even a fillable one has not been NAILED as UNIVERSALLY READABLE for every device that has a screen and keyboard in this day and age where do I COMPLAIN!!!
 
Not sure where you get the idea that Acrobat is only available via subscription...

Acrobat Pro and Acrobat Standard are full-on editors and are stand-alone, non-cloud based, one-time purchase packages.

They're still made by Adobe. I want nothing to do with the company.

Rich
 
Thinking of PDF; I had funny example of tech people being super proud of a pointless effort.

For a payment solution; the customer tech wanted the data in a PDF vs CSV or XML which was what we normally exported.
So we had a developer enhance the batch program to export the report to a PDF.
Customer tech comes back and says they cannot process the PDF; there is no image.
So we add a PDF to pdf to the batch job.
Customer tech comes back and says they cannot process the PDF; our tool created the image as a vector instead of bitmap.
Ok, so we go back into the batch job, change it pdf to print stream to pdf.
Customer tech processes it. System goes into production.

About three months later, we are talking to the finance people; and finally find out. The roughly 5K csv file we normally produce is converted to a 50MB PDF which we send to the customer is run through OCR processors, which generates a text file which is then piped through a "screen scrape program" which converts the resulting report to a CSV file which is then loaded into the financial system. I stupidly asked, why didn't they just ask for CSV to begin with? Finance said they were never given the option by IT. :)

Tim
 
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