Taxiing as student.

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Can someone that only has a student permit start and taxi an airplane solo without being signed off to solo?
 
There is no regulation that says you even need to have any sort of certificate to taxi an airplane.
 
As I recall you have to be signed off to solo if you move the plane with the intent to take off so if you taxi at 75% of the rotation speed you might get spanked but if you use a more reasonable metric like taxi at walking speed then you ok with the FAA.

Please note I have not slept in a Holiday Inn lately.
 
jtheune said:
As I recall you have to be signed off to solo if you move the plane with the intent to take off so if you taxi at 75% of the rotation speed you might get spanked but if you use a more reasonable metric like taxi at walking speed then you ok with the FAA.

Please note I have not slept in a Holiday Inn lately.
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Nope, the only time the "aircraft moves with intent of flight" concept arises is the definition of flight time.
 
14 CFR 61.3 says, "No person may serve as a required pilot flight crewmember of a civil aircraft of the United States" without a pilot certificate. 14 CFR 1.1 says, "Crewmember means a person assigned to perform duty in an aircraft during flight time." And for this purpose (the issue is taxiing, and gliders don't taxi much), "flight time" is "Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing." So, the regs tell us that if the airplane is being taxied other than for the purpose of flight, anyone can do it, with or without a pilot certificate.

That said, your insurer may not have agreed to cover you if anyone other than a licensed pilot taxies the airplane, so if you value your money, check your policy before you allow it.
 
I asked my instructor this, since I did not solo until 40 hours. Well before 40 hours, he allowed me to pre-flight the plane alone AND taxi it over to the gas pump . . . then bring it back, tie it down, and go inside for a briefing before the flight.

When I asked him if this was "solo-ing" he answered that even their mechanics (who are not pilots) taxi the planes every day.

So no - it is my understanding that you do not need any sort of endorsement or sign off.
 
Ron went and got all techno mubojumbo- legal on me but I do think we both said the same thing. You have to intend to fly before it's a issue. I recall reading somewhere where a case came up I think for insurance purposes where a pre-solo student was taxiing the plane and a gust of wind came along and lifted the plane up and causes damaged and the argument was made that the student voided the policy because of not being legal to fly but the counter argument was successfully made that student was repositioning the plane without any intent to fly so he was covered.
 
Ron Levy said:
14 CFR 61.3 says, "No person may serve as a required pilot flight crewmember of a civil aircraft of the United States" without a pilot certificate. 14 CFR 1.1 says, "Crewmember means a person assigned to perform duty in an aircraft during flight time." And for this purpose (the issue is taxiing, and gliders don't taxi much), "flight time" is "Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing." So, the regs tell us that if the airplane is being taxied other than for the purpose of flight, anyone can do it, with or without a pilot certificate.

That said, your insurer may not have agreed to cover you if anyone other than a licensed pilot taxies the airplane, so if you value your money, check your policy before you allow it.
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Thanks Ron,

I appreciate the "all techno mubojumbo- legal " stuff.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
jtheune said:
Ron went and got all techno mubojumbo- legal on me but I do think we both said the same thing. You have to intend to fly before it's a issue.
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Same conclusion, yes, but I know we've got a lot of folks here who like to know where it's written, too.

I recall reading somewhere where a case came up I think for insurance purposes where a pre-solo student was taxiing the plane and a gust of wind came along and lifted the plane up and causes damaged and the argument was made that the student voided the policy because of not being legal to fly but the counter argument was successfully made that student was repositioning the plane without any intent to fly so he was covered.
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If the insurer's argument was that the student wasn't FAA-legal to do it, then I think they arrived at the right outcome. However, other policies may specifically limit "operation" of the aircraft (without regard to intent for flight) to those qualified to fly or a licensed mechanic. YMMV, so check your policy before you let anyone do that.
 
My grandfather was a mechanic for TWA. He taxied all the time... even crashed a jet into the gate once (something was wrong with the brakes). Also almost accidentally took off in (I think) an L1011 while performing a brake check on the runway... LOL. He wasn't a pilot, and he never got in trouble for taxiing. Of course, that was back in the good ol' days. ;)
 
No license required to taxi an airplane, mechanics who don't even hold a Student cert do it all the time.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
There is no regulation that says you even need to have any sort of certificate to taxi an airplane.
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Henning said:
No license required to taxi an airplane, mechanics who don't even hold a Student cert do it all the time.
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I'll admit that I have never even bothered to look this up. I am also going from memory when I was about 14 or 15, but my girlfriend's dad was a mechanic at UAL. I seem to recall that he had to pass some sort of test to be allowed to taxi the jets on the airport. I do not recall any mention of the FAA and I could just be assuming that was who was certify him, could have easily been a company certification.

The question is for the big boys is there a different set of FAA rules to get the mechanics taxi certified or is it just company or maybe even an airport guideline?
 
When I worked for Continental there were sign-offs for taxi, as well as driving the loaders and tugs... but I seem to recall those were all done under their own 121 rulebook... trying to remember.

I worked for them back in the Dark Ages.

Loved doing push backs. Loved blocking United in the aisle between the Concourses, even more. ;)

They were, of course... trying to avoid this:

http://www.airliners.net/photo/092008/

Mechanics did that one.
 
ScottM said:
I'll admit that I have never even bothered to look this up. I am also going from memory when I was about 14 or 15, but my girlfriend's dad was a mechanic at UAL. I seem to recall that he had to pass some sort of test to be allowed to taxi the jets on the airport. I do not recall any mention of the FAA and I could just be assuming that was who was certify him, could have easily been a company certification.

The question is for the big boys is there a different set of FAA rules to get the mechanics taxi certified or is it just company or maybe even an airport guideline?
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Company training. It's probably mandated by the FAA through the company certificate, but not directly.
 
Mechanics are even allowed to do high-speed taxis down the runway. Ours didn't think they wanted to try, though, so they asked me to do it (in a Lear 35). Even when I was doing it I was thinking how weird it was to be doing all the startup checklists, etc, myself. As we were rolling the thought entered my mind how easy it would be to just lift off....
 
Mechanics are also trained to taxi but no certification is issued. Some of my teachers worked at ABX air but only one was taxi "certified" and he was limited to 767s but that was an ABX rule.

You may leagaly REPOSITION an airplane and the FAA will not be involved.

Interesting side note though, because it took place after a flight when a renter pilot hit our building with a wing tip the FAA madated remedial taxi training.
 
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