Taxi-ing without a valid medical

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Quick check:

I'm color-blind, so my third class medical has a restriction on night flying. One of the things on my flying bucket-list is to see a sunrise from the air. As I understand it, "night" officially ends at the beginning of civil twilight, which gives me some 20-30 minutes of legal flying time before the actual sunrise.

My question is, how far am I legally allowed to go before civil twilight? I can obviously pre-flight the plane, but can I start the engine? Taxi to the runway? I'm trying to save every minute here :)

Thanks!
 
Why don't you just find someone who can fly at night to go with you as PIC?
 
Quick check:

I'm color-blind, so my third class medical has a restriction on night flying. One of the things on my flying bucket-list is to see a sunrise from the air. As I understand it, "night" officially ends at the beginning of civil twilight, which gives me some 20-30 minutes of legal flying time before the actual sunrise.

My question is, how far am I legally allowed to go before civil twilight? I can obviously pre-flight the plane, but can I start the engine? Taxi to the runway? I'm trying to save every minute here :)

Thanks!

As I understand the regs you count the time as flying from engine start "for the purpose of flying". So you could taxi to the fuel pumps before that and shut down - OK because it was for the purpose of moving the plane for fuel. But if you're taxiing for the purpose of flight, it's not legal. Would anybody care? I doubt it. Unless you taxied into somebody or something.

John
 
There was an article in one of the flying mags, about a pilot who landed, parked, and had some wine with dinner. Then decided he better move his plane from one parking spot to another.

Hit a depression or something, and damaged the plane. As I recall, his license was suspended due to operating an aircraft under the influence.

He had no intention to fly, but that did not matter.

Don't know how that applies here, but while I would never fly after drinking, what that pilot did falls into the "There but for the grace of God go I" category for me.
 
Line up and wait. I'd park it on the numbers the evening before. Then, get anyone at all, with or without a certificate, to start and warm it up but not move it. Then, at exactly the beginning of morning civil twilight you can start your takeoff roll. You can save precious seconds if you can arrange a cat shot so you can launch instead of taking off.
Why don't you ask easy questions, like how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Oh, that will be answered shortly? I'll line up and wait. :)
 
There was an article in one of the flying mags, about a pilot who landed, parked, and had some wine with dinner. Then decided he better move his plane from one parking spot to another.

Hit a depression or something, and damaged the plane. As I recall, his license was suspended due to operating an aircraft under the influence.

He had no intention to fly, but that did not matter.

Don't know how that applies here, but while I would never fly after drinking, what that pilot did falls into the "There but for the grace of God go I" category for me.

There are laws against operating any motor vehicle under the influence. 91.13, the careless and reckless prohibition reg applies to aircraft operation on the ground as well as in the air.
 
You need to make two distinct, and separate 'operations'. The first operation is to perform a ground staging from your hangar/parking area to a suitable location prior to take off. Then, you need to shut down, get out, step on the ground to legally prove you had no intention of committing aviation. After that 'operation' is complete, you can get back in your plane, perform your runup, and commit aviation within the statutory regulation concerning flight before civil twilight.

Ain't legality a great thing?
 
I would think if you start your taxi right at the beginning of morning civil twilight you'd be taking off just as the sun is rising and be perfectly legal.
 
Nobody will care if nothing happens, but if you cause a runway incursion or manage to hit something the FAA may hang you out to dry anyway.

Do not confuse the definition cobbed above which domes from "FLIGHT TIME" as being the definition of "flight" as far as the FAA's views on needing a pilot in command.
 
Or just take along a pilot friend with an unrestricted medical. He can be PIC until the appropriate time.

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Line up and wait. I'd park it on the numbers the evening before. Then, get anyone at all, with or without a certificate, to start and warm it up but not move it. Then, at exactly the beginning of morning civil twilight you can start your takeoff roll. You can save precious seconds if you can arrange a cat shot so you can launch instead of taking off.
Why don't you ask easy questions, like how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Oh, that will be answered shortly? I'll line up and wait. :)
Measure the head of the pin. Measure the rear-end of an angel. Simple arithmetic.
 
Then, you need to shut down, get out, step on the ground to legally prove you had no intention of committing aviation. After that 'operation' is complete, you can get back in your plane, perform your runup, and commit aviation within the statutory regulation concerning flight before civil twilight.
(emphasis mine)

"committing aviation"? Sounds a bit criminal to me.:mad2:

So would an aborted takeoff run be "attempted aviation"? Are there degrees of aviation too? Maybe private pt 91 ops would be a count of "commiting 3rd degree aviation" for each body aboard while pt 121 would be "commiting 1st degree aviation"? Is a Southwest Capt "commiting 120 counts of 1st degree aviation"?:lol::rofl:
 
As I understand the regs you count the time as flying from engine start "for the purpose of flying". So you could taxi to the fuel pumps before that and shut down - OK because it was for the purpose of moving the plane for fuel. But if you're taxiing for the purpose of flight, it's not legal. Would anybody care? I doubt it. Unless you taxied into somebody or something.

John

Actually, I've always maintained that engine start means nothing for flight time purposes. 14 CFR 1.1 defines "flight time" as "Pilot time that commences when an aircraft moves under its own power for the purpose of flight and ends when the aircraft comes to rest after landing." So the way I read it, until the aircraft moves under its own power, it's not flight time.

Here's an (ironic) idea: The OP can ask (or hire) literally anyone -- with a certificate or without one -- to taxi the airplane to the run-up area for the purpose of delivering it to the OP, who will be waiting there for it, well before civil twilight. The person doing the taxiing, upon reaching the run-up area, positions the plane for run-up and shuts the engine down. Because the purpose of the taxi was to deliver the airplane, not to fly it, that person needs no certificate at all.

The OP can then pre-flight and do the run up -- neither of which count as flight time because the aircraft hasn't moved under its own power -- and release the parking break the second that civil twilight begins.

That would be perfectly legal. Taxiing the airplane himself, however, would be a federal crime.

-Rich
 
Last edited:
You're correct. I was too busy to look it up but I remembered the "for the purpose of flight" part.

John


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You're correct. I was too busy to look it up but I remembered the "for the purpose of flight" part.

John


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Meh. I suspect that 99 percent of people believe the same thing because most flight schools charge by the Hobbs for both instructional time and aircraft rental, and usually the time from engine start to movement is trivial, anyway.

-Rich
 
Quick check:

I'm color-blind, so my third class medical has a restriction on night flying. One of the things on my flying bucket-list is to see a sunrise from the air. As I understand it, "night" officially ends at the beginning of civil twilight, which gives me some 20-30 minutes of legal flying time before the actual sunrise.

My question is, how far am I legally allowed to go before civil twilight? I can obviously pre-flight the plane, but can I start the engine? Taxi to the runway? I'm trying to save every minute here :)

Thanks!

Are you exercising the privileges of your certificate by starting the engine ? Have you ever seen an non-pilot A&P start an engine and taxi the plane from a T-Hangar to his shop ?

http://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/medical_certification/faq/response3/

Who must hold a Medical Certificate?

Any person exercising the privileges of any of the following certificates: airline transport pilot certificate, commercial pilot certificate, private pilot certificate, recreational pilot certificate, flight instructor certificate (when acting as pilot in command if serving as a required pilot flight crewmember), flight engineer certificate, flight navigator certificate, or student pilot certificate.
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...e7f94f821086&node=14:1.0.1.1.1.0.1.1&rgn=div8

Flight crew member means a pilot, flight engineer, or flight navigator assigned to duty in an aircraft during flight time.
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...&node=14:2.0.1.1.2&idno=14#14:2.0.1.1.2.1.1.2

§61.3 Requirement for certificates, ratings, and authorizations.

(a) Required pilot certificate for operating a civil aircraft of the United States. No person may serve as a required pilot flight crew member of a civil aircraft of the United States, unless that person:
(1) Has in the person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate or authorization—
(i) A pilot certificate issued under this part and in accordance with §61.19;
(ii) A special purpose pilot authorization issued under §61.77;
(iii) A temporary certificate issued under §61.17;
(iv) A document conveying temporary authority to exercise certificate privileges issued by the Airmen Certification Branch under §61.29(e); or
(v) When operating an aircraft within a foreign country, a pilot license issued by that country may be used.
(2) Has a photo identification that is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate or authorization. The photo identification must be a:
(i) Driver's license issued by a State, the District of Columbia, or territory or possession of the United States;
(ii) Government identification card issued by the Federal government, a State, the District of Columbia, or a territory or possession of the United States;
(iii) U.S. Armed Forces' identification card;
(iv) Official passport;
(v) Credential that authorizes unescorted access to a security identification display area at an airport regulated under 49 CFR part 1542; or
(vi) Other form of identification that the Administrator finds acceptable.
(b) Required pilot certificate for operating a foreign-registered aircraft within the United States. No person may serve as a required pilot flight crewmember of a civil aircraft of foreign registry within the United States, unless—
(1) That person's pilot certificate or document issued under §61.29(e) is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate; and
(2) Has been issued in accordance with this part, or has been issued or validated by the country in which the aircraft is registered.
(c) Medical certificate. (1) A person may serve as a required pilot flight crewmember of an aircraft only if that person holds the appropriate medical certificate issued under part 67 of this chapter, or other documentation acceptable to the FAA, that is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft. Paragraph (c)(2) of this section provides certain exceptions to the requirement to hold a medical certificate.
Answer: Call AOPA Legal

With that said:

My observation: I don't believe ANY pilot certificate is needed, at ALL, to taxi an airplane or conduct non-flight ops (my comment: or "intent to fly" ops). Therefore, if a pilot certificate is not needed, it stands no reason NO MEDICAL is needed, much less one with limitations.

This does not mean you can taxi your plane at night (with nighttime limitation on medical) and crash into the Jet-A truck and if you don't burn to death, not get sued in civil court or have the FAA try to still violate you.

Also, insurance may have heartburn covering you. Etc etc stuff.

But, I have never heard that a certificate is needed (nor a medical at all) to taxi an airplane.

Again, call AOPA Legal
 
Quick check:



I'm color-blind, so my third class medical has a restriction on night flying. One of the things on my flying bucket-list is to see a sunrise from the air. As I understand it, "night" officially ends at the beginning of civil twilight, which gives me some 20-30 minutes of legal flying time before the actual sunrise.



My question is, how far am I legally allowed to go before civil twilight? I can obviously pre-flight the plane, but can I start the engine? Taxi to the runway? I'm trying to save every minute here :)



Thanks!


Since you posted Unregistered, I'm not sure where you're located. If you're anywhere near me, let me know. As long as you provide the wakeup call (sunrise is more likely to be seen STILL awake than waking up early), we can go fly together and you can log as little or as much as you want. Which brings up a good question: Do I need to be AWAKE or just in the airplane to act as PIC? ;-)
 
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