Talk me out of this.

DaleB

DaleB

Final Approach
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DaleB
The more I think about it, the more reasons I find to build -- and the more I find not to build.

I'm in a flying club now. We have a 172 that costs me $83 an hour to fly. There's also an Arrow ($103) and a 182 ($117). I'm a relatively new member, just joined in May, but so far there have been some issues with reliability. Scheduling doesn't look like it will be an issue long term (after I have HP and complex endorsements) -- but we're maintaining 32-43 year old airplanes, and they break. Regularly, it seems. And they guzzle fuel like there's no tomorrow. And right now I'm limited to flying the 172, which is down for a week -- again. And that could turn into something a lot longer.

It looks like an RV-9a would fit about 80 percent or more of my requirements. Fast, two seats, baggage area is a little small. Relatively inexpensive to build -- it's within my budget. An RV-10 would be even better but I don't think I could get it finished under $125K, and the operating cost with that IO-540 and CS prop are more than I'd like to see. The jury's out on the RV-14 until we have more information on it, but I suspect it's going to be a little over the budget based on Van's estimate of $9K for the non-QB wing.

So let's assume an RV-9a QB kit, 160HP from a used but solid O-320 (probably built with fuel injection and electronic ignition), Catto 3-blade prop, Dynon panel with two screens, autopilot, electric trim, nice interior. Awesome airplane. Good fuel burn, good speed, Mrs. will need to pack light when we go somewhere. Other than that, it's a win all the way around.

So now the bad news. Space... I have none. We have a 3-car garage but it's currently full, is barely deep enough to work with, and I'm sure Mrs. will not be thrilled about the prospect of parking in the driveway for a couple of years. Closest hangars are 10 minutes each way, with no heat or cooling (but there is power at least). The local EAA chapter has a hangar but it's a 30 - 45 minute drive each way. I've about concluded that trying to build in a hangar is a Very Bad Idea. If it takes more than 2 years to get the garage back... well, that's just not going to work, and that's not Mrs talking, that's me. I think the Quick Build option would be worth the extra money to get it done that much sooner.

This idea has been banging around in my head for weeks now. The EAA chapter meeting is next week. I'm going to go to that (never been to one) and try to find RV builders/owners and see if I can get a close look at one. But the more I think about it, and the longer I have to wait to get into the club plane, the more appealing the idea seems.

On the other hand, for the same money and a whole lot less effort I could buy an older factory airplane, freshen up the panel, redo the interior and fly. But I keep coming back to the experience we had when we landed a couple of weeks ago on my wife's very first GA flight. The stupid nose strut seal had let go again. We were stuck away from home, and even if I'd had the tools to fix the problem it wouldn't have been legal for me to do so. I had no choice but to get a ride home, wait for an A&P to fix it, then get a ride back out to fly the plane home. 8 hours and 400 miles of driving, and if that airport hadn't had an FBO and repair facility -- well, though nuts.

That's a stupid way to do things, IMHO. I just don't know if I'm ready to commit a couple of years of my life to building... it would be a pretty big change for myself and my poor, long suffering spouse.

Sorry, I'm rambling. Carry on.
 
I hear ya, man. My thoughts lately are similar (and facing the reality of taking on a big project)

buy an already built RV-9(A).....(or 6 or 7)
 
jhausch said:
I hear ya, man. My thoughts lately are similar (and facing the reality of taking on a big project)

buy an already built RV-9(A).....(or 6 or 7)
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I have yet to see a built RV that I'd buy. None are done the way I'd do them -- panel, engine, etc -- so if I'm going to have to do a buttload of work, why not do it from the beginning? And I can pay for it gradually.

Plus... I am pretty sure I can build it well enough that I'd fly it. I'm not sure someone else would build it well enough that I'd fly it... if you know what I mean. "you never know what you don't know", you know?
 
Do you have an unfinished basement? A friend of mine built his RV6 in his basement and ended up cutting a few holes in the wall to pull it out when it was almost complete, then trailered it to the airport to be finished up.
 
PBristolJr said:
Do you have an unfinished basement? A friend of mine built his RV6 in his basement and ended up cutting a few holes in the wall to pull it out when it was almost complete, then trailered it to the airport to be finished up.
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Nope. The basement is finished aside from my fairly small, very crowded workshop. I run a sideline business from the basement -- which pays for my flying, as well as our vacations, and would pay for most of the airplane.
 
well your first mistake was ever letting her park in the garage to begin with :)

I'd find a built RV that you like and buy it, but I'm partial to buying already completed experimentals, I have 3.
 
DaleB said:
But I keep coming back to the experience we had when we landed a couple of weeks ago on my wife's very first GA flight. The stupid nose strut seal had let go again. We were stuck away from home, and even if I'd had the tools to fix the problem it wouldn't have been legal for me to do so. I had no choice but to get a ride home, wait for an A&P to fix it, then get a ride back out to fly the plane home. 8 hours and 400 miles of driving, and if that airport hadn't had an FBO and repair facility -- well, though nuts.
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The one incident cost you some inconvenience and a few hours time.

That's a stupid way to do things, IMHO. I just don't know if I'm ready to commit a couple of years of my life to building... it would be a pretty big change for myself and my poor, long suffering spouse.
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How many such incidents that you describe above would you need to encounter to match the number of hours (not less than 1000 hrs) and money (not less than $50,000) and untold years you would spend building your own RV-9A?

I think you are allowing frustration to dictate a route that is actually more time consuming and costly in the long run than what you have now. I think you need to find more reasons to rationalize building than the one reason you've given.
 
Why not look for a partnership in a 172 or 182 locally? Probably more reliable than your current club. I fly a 36 year old plane and it is doing well.
 
Wow, Jim, you took me at my word! Thanks for that. :)
Jim Logajan said:
The one incident cost you some inconvenience and a few hours time.
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True. Fortunately, it was only a couple hours' drive from home, and it was a weekend, and there was someone able to come pick us up and drive us home. It got me thinking, though -- what if it had been two states away, or at a facility with no mechanics available? A simple dinner flight could have turned into a long ordeal. As it was, we had to trim two days off the front end of our vacation waiting for the repair. So yeah, this time it was an inconvenience. Next time?

Jim Logajan said:
How many such incidents that you describe above would you need to encounter to match the number of hours (not less than 1000 hrs) and money (not less than $50,000) and untold years you would spend building your own RV-9A?
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I figure closer to $75K by the time I'm done. QB kit, engine, prop, avionics, crating, shipping, seats and interior, tools, etc. "Untold" years is simply not an option -- it would need to be done in 2 years or less. Figuring out a reasonable, realistic build schedule is something I need to do before making a final decision.

Jim Logajan said:
I think you are allowing frustration to dictate a route that is actually more time consuming and costly in the long run than what you have now. I think you need to find more reasons to rationalize building than the one reason you've given.
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In the interest of brevity, there are a number of motivating factors that I didn't mention that are contributing. In no particular order:

  • The 172 is slow and cramped. The 182 is faster, but expensive. An RV-9 would be faster than the 182 or Arrow, and cheaper to operate and maintain than even the 172.
  • If it breaks, I can fix it.
  • When it's time for the annual, I can do it.
  • I can build the engine to more modern standards so it will burn less gas and make more power than something with a 40 year old carburetor.
  • I can put in the lighting, electrical systems, panel and avionics I want, at a fraction of the cost of trying to upgrade a certified airplane.
  • Ditto for the interior and any future modifications.
  • Autopilot, coupled to GPS.
  • Zero scheduling conflicts.
I hear the "Build if and only if you want to build" from Capt. Thorpe, too... and I have to be brutally honest here. I don't have a life long dream of building my own airplane. The building is something I'd be willing to do in order to fly what I want to fly, at a cost I'm willing to pay. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be one of the "repeat offenders" who builds an RV, then immediately starts another one.
 
Just to throw out another idea, you can buy a 5 year old Flight Design CTSW with less than 500 hours, all glass panel, sips premium mogas at 4.5 gal/hr and cruises comfortably at 105 knots for about $75,000. No need to keep up your medical if you're willing to fly with sport pilot privileges and you can easily take it to experimental light sport if you want to modify it or do your own maintenance.

My CT weighs 730 lbs leaving 590 for fuel, luggage and people. Which is fine for us for weekend touring. Annuals usually cost about $600-$800 with big ticket items like prop, hoses and chute repack every few years.
 
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EppyGA said:
Why not look for a partnership in a 172 or 182 locally? Probably more reliable than your current club. I fly a 36 year old plane and it is doing well.
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It's something I am looking at, yes. Definitely not a 172. As much as I like the little guy, it's just not enough airplane for me long term. I wouldn't want to fly it on many of the trips I'm looking at making, at least not if I had something else available. It's far from an ideal solution -- you're still dependent on others for maintenance and inspections, and you're severely limited on what you can do to try to coax the airplane into the modern world. But it could save a lot of time and money on the front end.
 
Can the club afford to pick up a second type of each plane? We've found it is a good policy to always have at least two of every type for exactly the reason you're describing.
 
bflynn said:
Can the club afford to pick up a second type of each plane? We've found it is a good policy to always have at least two of every type for exactly the reason you're describing.
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Right now the club has a limited number of members, and three aircraft. Adding one or more additional planes would mean adding memberships to pay for them. I don't know if the membership would be willing to go for that or not -- I'm not going to agitate for it, I think that's done from time to time anyway.

I don't know how many student pilots are in the club at any given time, but I with only one trainer this latest break is going to be a bigger deal for them than for me. Most guys, and this will apply to me in a few months as well, can just switch to one of the other planes if one's down. So I'm trying not to let my current situation be too big of a factor. Right now I can't fly the other two planes; at some point I will be able to -- at a higher cost, of course.
 
DaleB said:
I figure closer to $75K by the time I'm done. QB kit, engine, prop, avionics, crating, shipping, seats and interior, tools, etc. "Untold" years is simply not an option -- it would need to be done in 2 years or less. Figuring out a reasonable, realistic build schedule is something I need to do before making a final decision.
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You can do it in under 2 years, but it will be more difficult to do so if you're building it offsite. We did the (slow build) -7A in a little over 2.5 years with a few months spread out in there where we were waiting for parts. Dad would build components throughout the week and I would come back every other weekend or so and we would combine small components into larger components. He has said that there is no way he could have done it if it hadn't been in the basement/garage. Even 15-30 minutes per night putting a few screws in adds up quickly over the 2-3 years it takes to complete the build and you're a lot less likely to have those 'mini blitz build' moments if you have to drive somewhere to get to the project.

I hear the "Build if and only if you want to build" from Capt. Thorpe, too... and I have to be brutally honest here. I don't have a life long dream of building my own airplane. The building is something I'd be willing to do in order to fly what I want to fly, at a cost I'm willing to pay. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be one of the "repeat offenders" who builds an RV, then immediately starts another one.
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You might want to spend some time helping with another RV project to see how well you take to the whole build process. There are LOTS of times where you will spend 8hrs working and turn around and not be able to see that you have done anything at all. For some people, that is a whole new level of frustration that can't be dealt with and they give up on the project. I'm not saying that everyone needs to be willing to build a fleet of planes, but there is a certain level of monotony that you have to be willing to deal with.

After saying all of that discouraging talk I will say it's hard to beat an RV. My wife and I have taken the -7A from Iowa to: Las Vegas (NM and NV), San Antonio, Boston, New York, Michigan, Alabama... I will also say - if you want your wife to enjoy travelling in the -9A, NEVER let her ride in an -10. I was very keen on the 182RG until recently taking a trip in the -10. That is by far the best travelling machine that I have flown to date. So much so that my wife has declared that she won't do long trips in the -7A anymore. ;)
 
One can often find a already flying homebuilt for much less than the cost of the kit and engine - you can drag it home and re-do the panel to be what you want for a lot less work and money than starting from scratch.

You don't get the repairman's certificate, but the once a year visit to the A&P isn't that bad (you fix any issues before the inspection, eh?)

Most hombuilders do a pretty good job on the big structural stuff (OK, I've seen a couple that couldn't rivet for ****). It's the electrical / fuel systems that are most likely to be the issue.

People seem to worry about the wings falling off because someone forgot to put in a bolt or something - but the statistics don't seem to support that fear. Also, how is it any different than a factory airplane that has been worked on for 40 years by underpaid, overworked A&Ps (or A&P helpers) - couldn't they have forgotten something just as easily?
 
CJones said:
You might want to spend some time helping with another RV project to see how well you take to the whole build process.
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I am planning to do just that, if possible. I think there's at least one RV in progress around here, maybe more. I am joining the local EAA chapter in part to find builders to help out, and see what the completed planes are like.

CJones said:
After saying all of that discouraging talk I will say it's hard to beat an RV. My wife and I have taken the -7A from Iowa to: Las Vegas (NM and NV), San Antonio, Boston, New York, Michigan, Alabama... I will also say - if you want your wife to enjoy travelling in the -9A, NEVER let her ride in an -10. I was very keen on the 182RG until recently taking a trip in the -10. That is by far the best travelling machine that I have flown to date. So much so that my wife has declared that she won't do long trips in the -7A anymore. ;)
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I'd love to build the -10, but just can't do that expense. I'm really interested to see the -14 kit pricing when it comes out. Waiting to see that is one of the ways I'm keeping myself from jumping in too quickly. I know my limitations; I tend to get a little obsessive and start things too soon. If I do decide to build, it won't be for at least another year.
 
Ahh, the post-Oshkosh, "I should build an airplane" feeling... heh heh...

You better REALLY like your garage if you do it. You'll be living there for a few years.
 
If you don't have a life long dream to build an airplane, don't build an airplane.
 
I share many of your frustrations about certified aviation and its costs and I'm desperately looking to the day I can afford to buy an RV suited to my mission profile.

I don't think your assessment of project completion is realistic considering you don't get a boner at the thought of building. You want to fly fast and efficiently as quickly as possible. I suggest buying an already built RV and be done with it.

I agree, many of the panels these RV builders put on the things are straight up abortions, but the prospect of a panel re-layout is a freggin' weekend project compared to building a whole airplane. The cost is also inconsequential when compared to building from scratch. Furthermore, the concern about the gamble regarding airworthiness and structural integrity of a homebuilt airframe with >200 hours flown is overstated. To each their own but that kind of flight time absolutely provides me with the comfort level required to purchase and operate that airframe.

That's what I would do if I had 60-75K dollars ready to burn on an experimental today. Buy it, fix the panel as required to make it a bona fide XC aircraft to the level of operation you desire and then go fly and smoke spam can mx and operation costs for mile traveled. These things are awesome no doubt.

FWIW I own and fly the living snot out a certified slow-can. PA-28-161. As much as I would love an RV, I still love the fact I'm getting to my destination 3 times a month with pretty good reliability (knock on wood) as opposed to telling my SO it'll be 5 more years until I can go visit. I'd fly a 150 halfway across the country before I attempt to undertake a build project I know I don't have the inclination nor nominal sense of attention to detail to complete in an ecoomic cost effective way.
Good luck in whatever you decide.
 
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Some good feedback here, guys... thanks. Here's how I am thinking right now...

Up-front cost: I can buy an older Piper/Cessna/Beech/Whatever fairly cheaply, and spend a lot to get it more or less fixed up. I can buy a built RV and spend a lot more up front, then have to re-do the panel and whatever else I don't like. I can buy a factory plane in nicer condition. Or, I can build from scratch (well, kit). Whichever way I go, I'll spend about the same -- the budget is what the budget is. The biggest difference is that with an RV kit, I'm spreading the expense over a longer period of time. Win for the kit plane. It's a wash, until you throw in the option of an older CesPerCraft, leaving everything the way it is, and just taking longer to get there.

Effort: Tough call. Hunting down a suitable already-built (factory or otherwise) airplane could take a lot of time, travel, money and disappointment... it's going to be like house hunting, where it looks SO GOOD on the web site, then you find out the basement has water in it and the cabinets are made of pressed cardboard with woodgrain vinyl covering. Then there will be the inevitable round of cleaning, fixing, replacing, etc. OK, yeah, building will still take longer, and we can still park int he garage while I'm surfing airporn on Controller.com and Barnstormers. Win for buying something someone else built.

Operating cost: Clear win for the RV, whether kit built or not.

Maintenance cost: Clear win for the RV, especially kit built.

Mission capability: The RV will get us there a lot faster and cheaper than any alternative I can afford. Most of the alternatives will haul more people and/or stuff than an RV I can afford. It's a toss-up... but I can always rent something bigger if I need to; the FBO rents an Archer and the club has an Arrow & a 182. Nobody around here rents anything that cruises at 165 kt.

dell30rb said:
If you don't have a life long dream to build an airplane, don't build an airplane.
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I don't know that I agree with this. I've heard something similar about flying -- "If you haven't always had a burning desire just to fly, don't get a pilot's license." And yet we have plenty of pilots for whom flying was not always their dream, who came into it late or who decided to get their license as a means to an end -- career, increased travel freedom, whatever. They do just fine. And don't get me wrong, I like big projects. I just haven't done one this big before, and most have involved wood or electronics -- not half a ton of aluminum.

Still have not made up my mind one way or the other. Probably won't for a while yet, either. Nobody's talked me out of it yet, but at least the discussion has gotten me thinking more and not target fixated. :) I need to go look at some airplanes that are for sale, not just the ones I've flown... most of those I wouldn't own, they're roached out trainers.
 
Owning is different than renting. You really get to know your plane. You know who last flew it and if a problem starts creeping up, often you will notice the changes. Older planes do frequently have deferred maintenance when you buy them, but you can spend some money and catch it up. Just get a good pre-buy. You might want to look at a Mooney, if you are wanting a fast traveler. Also, depending on how long your flight is, 20 KTS may be insignificant, when you factor in preflight, runup and other activities.
 
DaleB said:
The more I think about it, the more reasons I find to build -- and the more I find not to build.

I'm in a flying club now. We have a 172 that costs me $83 an hour to fly. There's also an Arrow ($103) and a 182 ($117). I'm a relatively new member, just joined in May, but so far there have been some issues with reliability. Scheduling doesn't look like it will be an issue long term (after I have HP and complex endorsements) -- but we're maintaining 32-43 year old airplanes, and they break. Regularly, it seems. And they guzzle fuel like there's no tomorrow. And right now I'm limited to flying the 172, which is down for a week -- again. And that could turn into something a lot longer.

It looks like an RV-9a would fit about 80 percent or more of my requirements. Fast, two seats, baggage area is a little small. Relatively inexpensive to build -- it's within my budget. An RV-10 would be even better but I don't think I could get it finished under $125K, and the operating cost with that IO-540 and CS prop are more than I'd like to see. The jury's out on the RV-14 until we have more information on it, but I suspect it's going to be a little over the budget based on Van's estimate of $9K for the non-QB wing.

So let's assume an RV-9a QB kit, 160HP from a used but solid O-320 (probably built with fuel injection and electronic ignition), Catto 3-blade prop, Dynon panel with two screens, autopilot, electric trim, nice interior. Awesome airplane. Good fuel burn, good speed, Mrs. will need to pack light when we go somewhere. Other than that, it's a win all the way around.

So now the bad news. Space... I have none. We have a 3-car garage but it's currently full, is barely deep enough to work with, and I'm sure Mrs. will not be thrilled about the prospect of parking in the driveway for a couple of years. Closest hangars are 10 minutes each way, with no heat or cooling (but there is power at least). The local EAA chapter has a hangar but it's a 30 - 45 minute drive each way. I've about concluded that trying to build in a hangar is a Very Bad Idea. If it takes more than 2 years to get the garage back... well, that's just not going to work, and that's not Mrs talking, that's me. I think the Quick Build option would be worth the extra money to get it done that much sooner.

This idea has been banging around in my head for weeks now. The EAA chapter meeting is next week. I'm going to go to that (never been to one) and try to find RV builders/owners and see if I can get a close look at one. But the more I think about it, and the longer I have to wait to get into the club plane, the more appealing the idea seems.

On the other hand, for the same money and a whole lot less effort I could buy an older factory airplane, freshen up the panel, redo the interior and fly. But I keep coming back to the experience we had when we landed a couple of weeks ago on my wife's very first GA flight. The stupid nose strut seal had let go again. We were stuck away from home, and even if I'd had the tools to fix the problem it wouldn't have been legal for me to do so. I had no choice but to get a ride home, wait for an A&P to fix it, then get a ride back out to fly the plane home. 8 hours and 400 miles of driving, and if that airport hadn't had an FBO and repair facility -- well, though nuts.

That's a stupid way to do things, IMHO. I just don't know if I'm ready to commit a couple of years of my life to building... it would be a pretty big change for myself and my poor, long suffering spouse.

Sorry, I'm rambling. Carry on.
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Don't do it.
 
If you are at all on the fence don't do it. Look, I do the same kinds of things at work that you will have to do to build a plane. I've watched the job chew up good mechanics who didn't LOVE what the did. A kit will do the same thing.

So because you had to make the thread, you are not ready to build.
 
John221us said:
Owning is different than renting. You really get to know your plane. You know who last flew it and if a problem starts creeping up, often you will notice the changes. Older planes do frequently have deferred maintenance when you buy them, but you can spend some money and catch it up. Just get a good pre-buy. You might want to look at a Mooney, if you are wanting a fast traveler. Also, depending on how long your flight is, 20 KTS may be insignificant, when you factor in preflight, runup and other activities.
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I'd wager that a money could be found to fit the budget with similar speed to the RV and *gasp* a back seat!

I like EABs and may just end up with one sooner than later, but it really is hard to beat the economy of an older certificated plane. Especially when compared to the price of building it.
 
Skylane81E said:
I'd wager that a money could be found to fit the budget with similar speed to the RV and *gasp* a back seat!

I like EABs and may just end up with one sooner than later, but it really is hard to beat the economy of an older certificated plane. Especially when compared to the price of building it.
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Hmm.. newish RV with a fixed prop and O-320 versus a 1960s vinatge mooney with constant speed prop, retractable gear and one zillion and one wonky ADs ranging from leaking tanks to corrosion mandated inspection periods...substitute mooney for any old spam can and the story is the same. These old things are at worst a mess maintenance wise, an unnecessary legal and paperwork hassle at best.

Sorry but comparing purchase prices is extremely misleading. In short, the RV has recurring maintenance costs cheaper than my warrior, and my warrior has recurring maintenance costs in the order of 1/3 that of even the cheapest piston retracts, any way you cut it. Ergo, the RV smokes all the spam cans in yearly operation budget before the first dollar is spent in gas. That's why they go for that much money with only two seats.

Gaining speed by adding more movable parts is a false economy when it comes to propelling two people or less through the sky.
 
Skylane81E said:
If you are at all on the fence don't do it. Look, I do the same kinds of things at work that you will have to do to build a plane. I've watched the job chew up good mechanics who didn't LOVE what the did. A kit will do the same thing.

So because you had to make the thread, you are not ready to build.
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I'm not ready to build yet, you're right about that. I've got to think long and hard about it. I know it will mean giving up just about everything I love doing... oh, wait... never mind. I work from home full time and have no social life, and my other hobby got turned into a business. Never mind. Still, yeah. A lot of things would need to fall into place to make it the right choice, and it will be another year at the very least before I can make a decision. That will also give me a chance to see if flying club planes is going to be viable for the long term or not, too.

Once I get into a project, though, I do LOVE doing it. Except those I didn't want to do in he first place. I hope to never lay another damned floor tile again as long as I live.
 
How many such airplanes have you actually owned?

hindsight2020 said:
Hmm.. newish RV with a fixed prop and O-320 versus a 1960s vinatge mooney with constant speed prop, retractable gear and one zillion and one wonky ADs ranging from leaking tanks to corrosion mandated inspection periods...substitute mooney for any old spam can and the story is the same. These old things are at worst a mess maintenance wise, an unnecessary legal and paperwork hassle at best.

Sorry but comparing purchase prices is extremely misleading. In short, the RV has recurring maintenance costs cheaper than my warrior, and my warrior has recurring maintenance costs in the order of 1/3 that of even the cheapest piston retracts, any way you cut it. Ergo, the RV smokes all the spam cans in yearly operation budget before the first dollar is spent in gas. That's why they go for that much money with only two seats.

Gaining speed by adding more movable parts is a false economy when it comes to propelling two people or less through the sky.
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How much have you budgeted for renting while you build? I have a friend that is building and RV-10. He was going gangbusters for quite awhile working hard on the -10. He would rent now and then to try and keep current. Last November he took a weekend IR ground course and passed the written. Then he got the itch to fly more and bought 20% of a Commanche so he could get complex and HP time and endorsements. He had to get 20 hours with a CFI to get on the insurance and has spent a fair amount of time flying the Commanche. He works on the -10 now and then but not near as much as he was.
 
hindsight2020 said:
Hmm.. newish RV with a fixed prop and O-320 versus a 1960s vinatge mooney with constant speed prop, retractable gear and one zillion and one wonky ADs ranging from leaking tanks to corrosion mandated inspection periods...substitute mooney for any old spam can and the story is the same. These old things are at worst a mess maintenance wise, an unnecessary legal and paperwork hassle at best.

Sorry but comparing purchase prices is extremely misleading. In short, the RV has recurring maintenance costs cheaper than my warrior, and my warrior has recurring maintenance costs in the order of 1/3 that of even the cheapest piston retracts, any way you cut it. Ergo, the RV smokes all the spam cans in yearly operation budget before the first dollar is spent in gas. That's why they go for that much money with only two seats.

Gaining speed by adding more movable parts is a false economy when it comes to propelling two people or less through the sky.
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You can buy a lot of maintenance for the the price delta.

I have also yet to see a retreat cost 3x to maintain as a comparable fixed gear.
Hell the mooney I took care of cost maybe an extra few hundred dollars vs a 172 every 100hr.
 
DaleB said:
Well...

Yes. I think I could.
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Aircraft prices continue to fall like giraffe *****, and parts, shipping and the price of all the stuff in the aircraft continue to rise. I really don't believe you.
 
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Tom-D said:
Aircraft prices continue to fall like giraffe *****, and parts, shipping and the price of all the stuff in the aircraft continue to rise. I really don't believe you.
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Well, that's your call to make, I guess. First off, an RV-7 is not what I'd be looking for. That one is also not painted or equipped the way I would want it... so I'd either have to spend a ton of time and money making changes, or fly a compromise. If I were in the mood to spend $85K on a compromise I could have a pretty nice Comanche or maybe even a Bo. Now THERE is a case where parts and maintenance will eat you alive over the next 10-15 years. And while I don't really want to make specific comments about that particular airplane, yes, I think I could do a better job.

I priced out an RV-9a quick build kit, with crating and shipping. I added a few nice options like electric trim, really nice heated leather seats, a complete interior with side panels and carpet, and LED lights. I figured in a dual screen Dynon system with battery backup, 2-axis autopilot and GPS, as well as dual ADAHRS and engine monitoring. I did skimp on radios, going with some used King gear from either Bennett Avionics or eBay. Still a transponder and two NAV/COMMs, probably KX-125s.

Then I looked at the cost of a low-time used O-320, and an EFII kit to convert it to fuel injection and HEI. I figured in a 3-blade Catto prop and some tools and supplies. Unless I've completely forgotten something really big, I'd still have room for professional painting (but I can shoot paint myself) and still be well under $85K. If I paint it myself, the difference would pay for my flying club dues and a few hours a month of flying for two years.

In the end I'd have an airplane that would cost a fraction as much to fly as an older Mooney, Comanche or Bonanza. I could fix it myself if something breaks. I could sign off the annual condition inspection. I could put whatever gas in it I felt like. It won't require a high performance or complex endorsement to fly. I won't ever have to worry about retract problems or gear-up landings. Other than the time and effort to build it -- and with the QB kit even that is cut way down -- I'm having a tough time seeing a down side.
 
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